Herters "Wasp Waist" Bullets

farmall · June 2, 2005, 10:29 PM

Can anyone describe or post a picture of this bullet? I think I understand what they look like, but have never seen one. Don't know why I'm curious, never heard anything good about them . Thanks, Andy

LHB1 · June 3, 2005, 12:14 AM

Andy,
I don't have a picture handy but can try to describe the "Herter's World Famous Model Perfect Wasp Waist" bullets. Using a 165 grain .30 cal bullet as example, the front of bullet is the ogive and the rear of the bullet is a cylindrical portion with parallel sides measuring .308 diameter on normal bullets. On the Herter's Wasp Waist bullets, only the front and rear of this cylindrical portion would measure .308. The central section of this otherwise cylindrical part of the bullet was reduced in diameter, presumably to reduce barrel friction and improve aerodynamic flow downrange. I don't know how much the diameter was reduced but would guess about .008 - .010. It probably caused seating problems due to case neck tension and possibly even allowed movement of the bullet in the case neck due to uneven diameter.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

Paul B. · June 3, 2005, 12:22 AM

Let's keep it simple. Imagine a Coke bottle with a boattail.

FWIW, they didn't shoot worth squat! :barf:
Paul B.

Ruger4570 · June 3, 2005, 06:46 AM

Ahhhhh, yes,,, I miss seeing Herter's Model Perfect Everything. I have always wondered how come a company that made products so far and away better than everybody and at a cheaper price,, folded.. It sure was fun reading their catalogs. I still have one of their reloading books tucked away someplace.

Leftoverdj · June 3, 2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Ahhhhh, yes,,, I miss seeing Herter's Model Perfect Everything. I have always wondered how come a company that made products so far and away better than everybody and at a cheaper price,, folded.. It sure was fun reading their catalogs. I still have one of their reloading books tucked away someplace.

GCA '68

All of a sudden, Herter's could no longer sell many of their products by mail. GCA '68 originally applied to ammunition and components as well as to guns. They stuggled on for a few years, but the guts had been cut out of the business.

I'm still using a Herter's lubrisizer, and see used presses in serviceable condition pretty regularly.

Smokey Joe · June 3, 2005, 11:31 AM

Herter's of Waseca, Minnesota. Ahh, now, there's a name to conjure with!

(BTW, as an aside, the current Herter's, of Beaver Dam, WI, is not the same company; it is a pale imitation which confines itself to waterfowling equipment only. Not saying their stuff is not good. The current Herter's uses the original trademark and crest, so the confusion is understandable.)

The original, the "real" Herter's, sold fishing gear galore, camping equipment, outdoor clothing, boots, etc, etc, as well as guns & reloading & shooting equipment. And an attitude. More than anything, they sold an attitude! ("For professional use only, not for use by drugstore cowboys and other fakes!")

Their catalog certainly was fun reading, their put-downs of their competition a hoot, and some of their house merchandise, invariably labelled "Model Perfect" was actually quite good. There was speculation as to what they'd call one of their items if it were re-engineered: "Model Perfect Improved," perhaps?

As to their failure--Since they carried such a wide line it can't have been ONLY GCA '68 that killed them. And I don't believe it was, though that law must have hurt.

George Leonard Herter, who started the company, ran it all his active life. The second and third generations had trouble working in his shadow, and carrying on as his influence faded. This kind of thing, I understand, is rather common in family businesses. And so Herter's went the way of all flesh.

Those of us of a certain age will always remember Herter's with fondness, and look back on their "glory days" as belonging to a time in our own lives when we imagined ourselves also to be eternally tough, forever triumphant, and surely not drugstore cowboys.

farmall · June 3, 2005, 06:11 PM

Thanks guys,
I still use Herters Super 234A Turret press for some handgun loading. Also my first scale was an old oil-dampend Herters that looks alot like an old Redding. They sure as hell didnt spare the iron in that press, I'll bet it weighs 50#. I once had a guy bring me a Herters snomobile to work on. It was actually made by Bombardier, so parts were still available. I think alot of items were made by 3rd parties and marketed by Herters.

LHB1 · June 3, 2005, 07:21 PM

Andy,
I doubt that Herter's actually made any of the products they sold. Always assumed they were like Sears Roebuck and just contracted everything thru third party manufacturers.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

beenthere · June 4, 2005, 10:41 AM

Great memories. Their variety was unsurpassed. I remember a huge variet of materials for flytying encompassinf different kinds of fur so they must have had extensive contact with trappers supplying pelts.

The old catalogs ran 700-800 pages and somewhere I have one packed away from around 1971 or so but by that time the catalog had shrunk to only about 500 pages.

In that era they were the only place to go for things like down sleeping bags. The Cabelas catalog of that period were 1/2 page size and about 40 pages.

Leftoverdj · June 4, 2005, 03:09 PM

Quote:

As to their failure--Since they carried such a wide line it can't have been ONLY GCA '68 that killed them. And I don't believe it was, though that law must have hurt.

George Leonard Herter, who started the company, ran it all his active life. The second and third generations had trouble working in his shadow, and carrying on as his influence faded. This kind of thing, I understand, is rather common in family businesses. And so Herter's went the way of all flesh.

Smokey Joe, you have a point. Just maybe, inspired management could have pulled Herter's through. GCA '68 hurt Herter's in more than just sales loss, though. Herter's hallmark was its name brand, made under contract, products. There were surely both inventory and running contracts when the hammer hit. Herter's had to either pay for stuff it was going take years to sell, or buy their way out of the existing contracts. Either way, there went the money needed to expand into other product lines.

Paul B. · June 5, 2005, 01:55 AM

I believe the main back breaker for Herters was GCA 68.

I did like some of their bullets though and shot quite a few. The only dofs were those wasp waisted jokes. :barf:
This isn't gun oriented, but Herters sold some of the finest cocao to make hot chocolate with I ever drank. The stuff was from the Netherlands IIRC. A bit pricey, but worth every penny. The wife and I drank quite a bit of it, and I've since never been able to stomach the common stuff now available. I still have the last catalog I got from Herters, #86 dated 1976. I think they folded soon after.
Paul B.

DAVID NANCARROW · June 5, 2005, 05:58 AM

I have a box of 30 cal 180 Herters wasp waist soft nose. I loaded 5 of them just to see what they would do, and the accuracy is not all that great, but an inch at 100 isn't too bad.

mcattack8 · December 22, 2007, 01:32 PM

Sorry, I know this post is old but just now saw it. I don't know which bullets you guys shoot but the ones I have shoot great. I have about 450 180 grain wasp waist bullet left. I use 38.5 grains of IMR 4064 and 180 grain wasp waist bullet they shoot great in my 700 BDL and also the new T/C Icon puts them in less than .50 at 100 yards. Here are the pics farmall

Mike

June 2, 2005, 10:29 PM	#1
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	Herters "Wasp Waist" Bullets Can anyone describe or post a picture of this bullet? I think I understand what they look like, but have never seen one. Don't know why I'm curious, never heard anything good about them . Thanks, Andy

June 3, 2005, 12:22 AM	#3
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Let's keep it simple. Imagine a Coke bottle with a boattail. FWIW, they didn't shoot worth squat! :barf: Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

June 3, 2005, 11:31 AM	#6
Smokey Joe Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2001 Location: State of Confusion Posts: 2,106	Failure of Herter's Herter's of Waseca, Minnesota. Ahh, now, there's a name to conjure with! (BTW, as an aside, the current Herter's, of Beaver Dam, WI, is not the same company; it is a pale imitation which confines itself to waterfowling equipment only. Not saying their stuff is not good. The current Herter's uses the original trademark and crest, so the confusion is understandable.) The original, the "real" Herter's, sold fishing gear galore, camping equipment, outdoor clothing, boots, etc, etc, as well as guns & reloading & shooting equipment. And an attitude. More than anything, they sold an attitude! ("For professional use only, not for use by drugstore cowboys and other fakes!") Their catalog certainly was fun reading, their put-downs of their competition a hoot, and some of their house merchandise, invariably labelled "Model Perfect" was actually quite good. There was speculation as to what they'd call one of their items if it were re-engineered: "Model Perfect Improved," perhaps? As to their failure--Since they carried such a wide line it can't have been ONLY GCA '68 that killed them. And I don't believe it was, though that law must have hurt. George Leonard Herter, who started the company, ran it all his active life. The second and third generations had trouble working in his shadow, and carrying on as his influence faded. This kind of thing, I understand, is rather common in family businesses. And so Herter's went the way of all flesh. Those of us of a certain age will always remember Herter's with fondness, and look back on their "glory days" as belonging to a time in our own lives when we imagined ourselves also to be eternally tough, forever triumphant, and surely not drugstore cowboys. __________________ God Bless America --Smokey Joe

June 4, 2005, 10:41 AM	#9
beenthere Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2004 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 460	Herters Great memories. Their variety was unsurpassed. I remember a huge variet of materials for flytying encompassinf different kinds of fur so they must have had extensive contact with trappers supplying pelts. The old catalogs ran 700-800 pages and somewhere I have one packed away from around 1971 or so but by that time the catalog had shrunk to only about 500 pages. In that era they were the only place to go for things like down sleeping bags. The Cabelas catalog of that period were 1/2 page size and about 40 pages. __________________ The weak, and those unwilling to make the struggle, soon resign their liberties for the protection of powerful men or paid armies; they begin by being protected, they end by being subjected. Louis L'Amour

June 5, 2005, 01:55 AM	#11
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I believe the main back breaker for Herters was GCA 68. I did like some of their bullets though and shot quite a few. The only dofs were those wasp waisted jokes. :barf: This isn't gun oriented, but Herters sold some of the finest cocao to make hot chocolate with I ever drank. The stuff was from the Netherlands IIRC. A bit pricey, but worth every penny. The wife and I drank quite a bit of it, and I've since never been able to stomach the common stuff now available. I still have the last catalog I got from Herters, #86 dated 1976. I think they folded soon after. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

June 3, 2005, 12:14 AM	#2
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Andy, I don't have a picture handy but can try to describe the "Herter's World Famous Model Perfect Wasp Waist" bullets. Using a 165 grain .30 cal bullet as example, the front of bullet is the ogive and the rear of the bullet is a cylindrical portion with parallel sides measuring .308 diameter on normal bullets. On the Herter's Wasp Waist bullets, only the front and rear of this cylindrical portion would measure .308. The central section of this otherwise cylindrical part of the bullet was reduced in diameter, presumably to reduce barrel friction and improve aerodynamic flow downrange. I don't know how much the diameter was reduced but would guess about .008 - .010. It probably caused seating problems due to case neck tension and possibly even allowed movement of the bullet in the case neck due to uneven diameter. Good shooting and be safe. LB

June 3, 2005, 06:46 AM	#4
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	Ahhhhh, yes,,, I miss seeing Herter's Model Perfect Everything. I have always wondered how come a company that made products so far and away better than everybody and at a cheaper price,, folded.. It sure was fun reading their catalogs. I still have one of their reloading books tucked away someplace.

June 3, 2005, 06:11 PM	#7
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	Thanks guys, I still use Herters Super 234A Turret press for some handgun loading. Also my first scale was an old oil-dampend Herters that looks alot like an old Redding. They sure as hell didnt spare the iron in that press, I'll bet it weighs 50#. I once had a guy bring me a Herters snomobile to work on. It was actually made by Bombardier, so parts were still available. I think alot of items were made by 3rd parties and marketed by Herters.

June 3, 2005, 07:21 PM	#8
LHB1 Senior Member Join Date: March 25, 2005 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,545	Andy, I doubt that Herter's actually made any of the products they sold. Always assumed they were like Sears Roebuck and just contracted everything thru third party manufacturers. Good shooting and be safe. LB

June 5, 2005, 05:58 AM	#12
DAVID NANCARROW Senior Member Join Date: November 5, 2000 Location: Wyoming Posts: 1,761	I have a box of 30 cal 180 Herters wasp waist soft nose. I loaded 5 of them just to see what they would do, and the accuracy is not all that great, but an inch at 100 isn't too bad.

December 22, 2007, 01:32 PM	#13
mcattack8 Junior Member Join Date: December 22, 2007 Posts: 1	wasp waist Sorry, I know this post is old but just now saw it. I don't know which bullets you guys shoot but the ones I have shoot great. I have about 450 180 grain wasp waist bullet left. I use 38.5 grains of IMR 4064 and 180 grain wasp waist bullet they shoot great in my 700 BDL and also the new T/C Icon puts them in less than .50 at 100 yards. Here are the pics farmall Mike