July 12, 2013, 03:41 AM | #51 |
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It seems the nature of the T&T forum to morph mundane, everyday situations, or scenarios that are more than likely completely banal into the sinister and potentially, if not overtly, hazardous.
People see a post here and, quite naturally, the brain switches into how best use my gun to defend myself in this scenario. However, I feel that it would serve everyone best when, on the face of it, the situation is not an open threat to remember that fact first and foremost. In the OP situation, as has been described, the only aspect that points to this being a credible threat is by association to it being posted in T&T, not the details of the situation itself. By all means allow the gun to play a passive, background role in your thinking (eg, have it nearby at home if you've seen such a "suspicious" car earlier) but let normal behaviour rule the active part. Don't feel good someone parking across the road? (perfectly understandable, BTW.) Call the police, although they may well as what it is exactly that the occupants are doing wrong. Otherwise, floodlights seem to work. Passive, but effective. You can even pick-up a nature-watcher's N-V monocular and watch from a darkened room, if needed, to assure yourself that they are not observing houses. If it is an amourous couple, on the hand, try to have the self-discipline to put the monocular away... Seriously, though- Just because it is a thread in the T&T subforum of TFL gun forums doesn't mean that a gun-related response is the best advice. Let's look at the proposed situation, for what it is, first and then go from there...
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When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
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July 12, 2013, 07:20 AM | #52 | |
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Strange car outside
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I had a training course on passive and physical restraints. Passive restraints was how to speak, act, and calm the situation. As far as a unknown car parked in front or near my house I would only observe to see if any thing going that would warrant further action. Nothing more. If the amorous couple is observed, by all means...Put Down The Monocular !! Get the high power Binoculars or Camecorder ) |
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July 12, 2013, 09:33 AM | #53 | |
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I considered posting that, but chickened out!! (Don't worry, even if they didn't write everyone thought it...)
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When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.
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July 12, 2013, 09:52 AM | #54 |
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The “strange car” reminds me of an incident that happened around here a few years ago.
A guy was living on a rural mountain road 1-20 acre lots. A “strange” car pulled up was looking around and acting "strange" so the home owner goes out on his porch with a AR15 and sits on his rocking chair and glares at the stranger. The stranger drives off. Shortly after SWAT shows up. The home owner is arrested and charged with felony menacing. Turns out the strange car was a door to door census taker. He never said he had the gun pointed at him but just the visible display of the gun was enough for felony charges on the home owner. |
July 12, 2013, 10:05 AM | #55 |
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I think this thread has been a fruitful discussion. Some people view this as a non-issue where others "open carry" around the property to intimidate the unknown stranger. I think its good to discuss how to handle strangers in the neighborhood.
My opinion goes against approaching the stranger or to demonstrate any type of force such as flashing a pistol or open carrying, but raising the level of awareness and letting them know you are there by turning on lights or stepping outside to sweep the porch. I dont think you can ignore a car parked outside or someone walking around who doesnt seem like they belong there. I think calling the police to investigate the strange vehicle is not called for. If they enter your property then maybe it might be called for like a man who is obviously homeless or doesnt seem to have any recognizable intentions. Of course, most of the time, it will be innocent, but then again what if its not? |
July 12, 2013, 11:07 AM | #56 | |
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Could be that the sight of my van is enough to keep the door to door chaff from visiting. Sgt Lumpy |
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July 12, 2013, 11:19 AM | #57 |
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When I was in college, my buddy and I were headed to a party and couldn't find the right address. This was 1994 or so, so we didn't have GPS or cell phone. We parked on the street across from where we were pretty sure the party was and decided to wait to see if people started showing up. We were on the street - public property, and this was about 10:00 pm.
Well, suddenly a strange little red dot appears on my chest and pans over to my buddy. We look over to my right and there's a genius with an automatic of some sort and an attached laser aiming at us. The windows were down, so I stayed calm and said there was no need for that, we're just looking for so-and-so. He grunted and went back inside. In the console of my friend's car was a Glock 17. This situation could have gone horribly wrong in so many ways, just because some bozo decided to confront the strange car outside. |
July 12, 2013, 11:38 AM | #58 | |
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July 12, 2013, 11:47 AM | #59 |
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Menacing requires an overt threatening act, and sitting on your porch holding a rifle (no matter how menacing your countenance might be) doesn't qualify.
Sure it can and apparently it did. It was probably reduced or pled down but the guy on the porch got a visit from SWAT, spent a little time in the clink and probably had his rifle confiscated, at least temporarily. That's a lot of heartache. |
July 12, 2013, 11:49 AM | #60 | |
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July 12, 2013, 11:51 AM | #61 |
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I'd like to read some actual details about that sitting on the front porch case.
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July 12, 2013, 12:12 PM | #62 |
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It's also unconstitutional if the fellow holding the weapon didn't threaten anyone with it.
Colorado law: Menacing (18-3-206) A person commits the crime of menacing if, by any threat or physical action, he or she knowingly places or attempts to place another person in fear of imminent serious bodily injury. Menacing is a class 3 misdemeanor, but, it is a class 5 felony if committed: (a) By the use of a deadly weapon or any article used or fashioned in a manner to cause a person to reasonably believe that the article is a deadly weapon; or (b) By the person representing verbally or otherwise that he or she is armed with a deadly weapon. |
July 12, 2013, 12:32 PM | #63 | |
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July 12, 2013, 01:08 PM | #64 |
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"war" story; off-topic incident...
The "hey, I'll smoke-check anybody you comes near my spread!" mindset won't go to far with the cops or a grand jury, .
It's a shad off the subject, but I recall a seriously ill man in rural GA, who lacked medical benefits. He walked out & shot his area's USPS mail carrier! He heard federal BoP prisoners get full dental & medical while incarcerated. The wounded USPS mail man wasn't to thrilled with that plan. This took place about 4/5 years ago. Strange people "lurking" around your home or property isn't always a minor deal either. In 2010, a well known Hollywood stunt performer & stunt trainer I know had a "unwelcome" visitor to his large ranch in Lake County, FL. My friend(a combat veteran of Korea) & a few of his stunt school cadre/students discovered a hapless PI "hiding" in the bushes on his property. The local sheriff was called out & the PI sheepishly told the group how he was there working a worker's comp fraud case. True story! |
July 12, 2013, 01:39 PM | #65 | |
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July 12, 2013, 01:43 PM | #66 | ||
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All this seems a bit extreme. Do you not have neighbors nearby who have friends etc.? Quote:
For kicks and giggles, I'd advise that the next time this occurs, walk out in a clown costume. Bring two whipped cream pies. When the time is right, you'll know what to do. |
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July 12, 2013, 02:03 PM | #67 | |
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July 12, 2013, 02:37 PM | #68 |
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So what part of this did the homeowner violate? If he merely sat on his porch holding a rifle, exactly what part of this law did he violate?
You'd have to ask the DA, who prosecuted him. |
July 12, 2013, 02:37 PM | #69 | |
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http://www.colorado4x4.org/vbb/archi.../t-164807.html I could only find one article spun a few times by the same new company- http://www.coloradodaily.com/ci_12960708 http://www.dailycamera.com/ci_12960708 My version was quite vague I heard the story 4yrs ago. I guess their was also a couple of words exchanged and possible "trespassing". And it was a SKS not a AR15 |
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July 12, 2013, 03:16 PM | #70 |
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deepcreek, from the articles you linked, it sounds like the only ones doing any felony menacing were the SWAT team.
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July 12, 2013, 03:17 PM | #71 | |
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July 12, 2013, 04:21 PM | #72 | |
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The census worker claimed he was "menaced" then went on with his work day until it was covenant to call police ? Sounds like he wasn't to frightened to me. " As I came around the loop and headed back towards the defendants house I saw him standing there holding a “big black gun”. The defendant was obviously angry and was yelling something but my windows were closed and I could not hear him. I drove past, stopped once or twice, then continued on and took a few more map spot readings. After thinking about the situation, I found a local establishment and went inside to borrow a phone (cell phone service was not available). I called 911 " |
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July 12, 2013, 04:22 PM | #73 |
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Yeah, I noticed that too.
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July 12, 2013, 05:48 PM | #74 |
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Displaying a firearm is essentially escalating the situation to a much higher level which will lead to trouble for all involved. I think we should not escalate a situation if we dont have to. It all depends on how the stranger is acting at the time however.
If the stranger is lurking at the edge of the property on the sidewalk or parked in the street then no need to display anything. If the stranger is charging the front door on the other hand its time to have it out. |
July 12, 2013, 07:02 PM | #75 | |
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That probably seems hard to grasp for some less fortunate residents of other states. Sgt Lumpy |
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