What Went Wrong?

[lizziedog1]

Recently I purchased one of those cheapie side by side shotguns in 20 gauge. Its one of those that has some folks turning their noses up at them. Posting any question about this gun will immediately cause a dozen replies to what a POS it is and if a gun's price tag isn't at least equal to a mortgage payment then it is worthless, if not dangerous.

Today I took it hunting. I didn't have time to pattern the gun or even shoot a few clay targets with it. I got into some quail. I fired the gun six times and it didn't blow up on me. In fact, every trigger pull resulted in a bang. Not only that, I bagged five birds with those six shots. I missed the first shot on the first bird, the second barrel connected.

Here is my question. What went wrong? This POS shotgun shouldn't even work. The barrel should have peeled back like a banana. Should I return it because it was defective for not being defective?

I know what the replies will be. On the 100th or 1000th trigger pull the shotgun will explode and I will loose fingers and any bystanders will be cut in half by flying shrapnel. Its Russian roulette!

I do realize that you get what you pay for. I suppose that it might even more so for guns. But I am a working stiff. I have house payments to make, utilitities to pay for, insurance premiums to keep up with, and grocery bills to keep our stomachs full. Would I like to have a $2,000 shotgun? You bet! I would also like to have new SUV, a flat screen HD television, and steak and lobster for supper every night.

I guess I'll just have to keep shooting my cheap, POS shotgun and pray for the best. I guess I should update my will for when the big one happens. I mean when the gun blows me up into smithereens!

[oneounceload]

Glad it works for you and shoots where you point - guess you got one made on a Tuesday.......if all you are doing is what you have been doing, good for you, hope it continues..............every maker, even Jennings, turns out one now and again that works

[10-96]

I'm right there with ya- I've been waiting to get smithereened for years now. Maybe they only blow up when they have to hunt/shoot next to those $2k-$20k shotguns.

[pythagorean]

Sounds like you think many or most would not want your shotgun. Not so! I've had Baikal doubles, Huglo, and others that aren't even sold today.

What you might be thinking is what happened to me when using the double economy brand shotgun:

How much better does it get?

I had to see for myself. So, of course, more $ went into more doubles to "go where no man has gone before."

Well, quite a few are ahead of me. My ONLY shotgun today is the Beretta Silverhawk I bought for some ungodly amount of $. The money is happily parted from me but the shotgun is standing right next to me as I write this. It is kind of gorgeous to look at and I pick it up daily to shoulder the stock of those side by side barrels with the solid rib running down to the gold bead I point with. It is a lovely feeling. I have snap caps so I get to use the trigger to my heart's content.

I don't even need to fire the double to get pleasure from it. I don't need to spend any more money on another shotgun ever.

I've reached the reasonable limits of my ability to budget for a pricey double and I can live with it.

I won't be hooting or howling at anyone with a Stoeger Coach gun or Russian Baikal. But be careful--that inexpensive economy double might put an itch in your behind to wander into the outer limits......

[zippy13]

Originally Posted by lizziedog1

Today I took it hunting. I didn't have time to pattern the gun or even shoot a few clay targets with it.

IMHO, fielding an untried gun is imprudent. Nevertheless, I'm happy to hear you had a most successful outing with your new gun. Good wing-shooting is what it's all about, irrespective of the gun's MRSP.

[hogdogs]

I rarely hear knowledgeable folks say that a low line import is going to fail immediately...

What I do hear is "Let me know when you have 100 thousand rounds thru the gun without a failure". Thus far, I am guessing you might be a few shy of that number so let us know when you get it there...

Brent

[lizziedog1]

Let me know when you have 100 thousand rounds thru the gun without a failure

If I had the time and money to shoot 100,000 rounds of shotgun shells, then I could probably afford a fancier gun.

IMHO, fielding an untried gun is imprudent. Nevertheless, I'm happy to hear you had a most successful outing with your new gun. Good wing-shooting is what it's all about, irrespective of the gun's MRSP.

I am a working stiff. In today's economy I can't afford time off.

[jaguarxk120]

You poured our money down a rat hole this time by buying a cheap shotgun. It will shoot well untill the low grade metals inside decide to fail/break.

Next time take your time and look around for a older brand name gun like Winchester (model 12), Ithaca Model 37, Savage fox double, Browning A5, they all come up on the gun owners lists sooner or later.

They all can be had for good prices about the same you paid for your cheap double. The big difference is the older guns are made with machined alloy steels that is properly heat treated and they will last 2-3 lifetimes.

So what if the stocks need finishing, you can do that, rebluing doesn't cost that much and will bring back a older gun looking great.

[oneounceload]

I am a working stiff. In today's economy I can't afford time off.

PLEASE spare us the "reverse snobbery poor is me" you made you're a "poor working stiff' clear in your first post........... glad it is working for the time for you - if you think you are going to garner points for being poor and buying a gun that "a poor working stiff" can buy and it actually works today - not...........

Again, glad yours is working for you

[Hawg]

I'm still waiting after 43 years for my first damascus blow up. Keep shooting it and don't pay attention to the naysayers.

[lizziedog1]

PLEASE spare us the "reverse snobbery poor is me"

I am just trying to provide some snobbery balance.

[oneounceload]

WHAT snobbery balance? Most folks here are in your boat and whining about how much everything costs, as if they are owed something regarding the gun world -

If you look at the majority of the posts, they are about choosing between a "mossy" and a "remmy" for HD use

Folks like YOU seem to have a problem with folks who like something more than one of those pumps and who can appreciate a quality made gun..... sorry - I'm not buying that BS and frankly, I get tired of having to justify why a quality gun costs more than someone like you is willing to pay.

A quality double, whether O/U or SxS, costs what it does because of the labor involved - I'm sorry if you don't understand that or get it

[hogdogs]

Until i stumble on an american built old used double or possibly a "fine" import for a steal in the double configuration, I will stick to my american made mossbergs built by a family owned and operated outfit...

I assure you, There are few folks as po' as my household... But I just can't justify investing in a maybe...

Brent

[roy reali]

Here is my question. What went wrong? This POS shotgun shouldn't even work. The barrel should have peeled back like a banana. Should I return it because it was defective for not being defective?

Nothing went wrong. I too own some guns that I won't mention here. There is a bit of gun snobbery here. Some of the snobbery here rivals what DNC does.

[Vermonter]

This reminds me of skiing. I am an expert skier and instructor. I can teach you to get down the mountain on cheap rentals or $1200 skis. At a certain level your equipment is adequate. I have a Charles Daly HD shotgun that is perfect for that use. It will likely never see over 500 rounds. Just enough to know it runs.
That gun is kept in the bedroom in room temps. It does not go out into the field and is not exposed to corrosive elements. I don't know if I would hunt with it every day. That's what the 500 is for.
Then again I would never criticize someone else's firearm. Here's to hoping that yours continues to serve you well.
Vermonter.

[krimmie]

There into are quality double guns out there for the working stiff. I've been on the look out lately, and have found SKB's and Miroku's for under $650.

[Dave McC]

Lessee.......

Last shotgun bought was a used SKB 20 gauge O/U. Out the door, $450.

Before that, my most expensive. A Beretta O/U, OTD for $1725.A once in a lifetime purchase.

Before that, a nice old WM, now called Number 6. OTD, $178.

I paid a little over $200 for a 20 gauge YE, about $100 for a NEF single, and $400 or $500 for a very nice 870TB trap gun.

That's close to 20 years of buying. What part of it makes me a snob?

And BTW, I like them all,and the others here.

[B.L.E.]

Originally Posted by lizziedog1

Here is my question. What went wrong? This POS shotgun shouldn't even work. The barrel should have peeled back like a banana. Should I return it because it was defective for not being defective?

Making the barrel and action strong enough to not blow up is not what makes shotguns expensive.

Pretty wood for the stock is expensive. A trigger that has a crisp release instead of a quarter inch of creep is expensive. Regulating the barrels so they both hit at the exact same point of aim is expensive. Polished forged parts instead of rough investment cast or stamped steel parts are expensive. Precision is expensive. Polishing is expensive.

Inexpensive guns are certainly safe to shoot and are probably "good enough" for an occasional hunting trip or for shooting vermin.

[Mike Irwin]

You know, Lizziedog, I'm not 100% sure, as I've never really understood or been able to grasp the concept, but I THINK you're being sarcastic...

Right?

[BigJimP]

I don't think anyone on this forum has told you that an inexpensive shotgun will blow up .....parts may fall off, yes .../ or parts may break prematurely - yes ....

I hope when you take it to the pattern board - both barrels have the same point of impact - its another common problem on some of the lesser expensive shotguns.

I'm glad your new gun is working for you / take a deep breath man ...

I hope the new gun meet or exceeds your needs. However, it won't change my mind that both Browning and Beretta give you a solid 100,000 or maybe a 250,000 shell gun for the money. I hope you can report the same reliability in 10 or 20 yrs or whatever it takes for you to get there.

[Scorch]

Should I return it because it was defective for not being defective?

Absolutely! It failed to fail. Even though the sagest internet experts sagely advised you against firing it because it would fail to fire and surely dismember you due to the failure to explode, you took the gun afield and fired it with blatant disregard for the massive global damage it caused, and yet failed to cause. If a buttefly flapping its wings can cause a hurricane, the damage caused by the lack of damage must be catastrophic! Therefore you are negligent of negligence and the internet experts were correct in presuming their presumptions, presumably. I demand reparations! Please send me a check, post haste.

If poor quality fit and finish on a shotgun were cause for alarm, all those thousands of Savage, Mossberg, and High Standard shotguns sold over the past 100 years would have caused the world to fall into the sun long ago. I'm glad your shotgun works well. Enjoy it!

[BigJimP]

I doubt anyone on this forum cares if you're a student / working at McDonalds for $8 an hour .....a guy making $30K a year ....or a guy making $100,000 a year ....

I realize I'm defending some of us on the forum / that take more of a long term approach to shotguns - primarily from a clay target perspective ...

but the real enemy here is the mfg's / that have jumped into the arena of O/U's - because shooters wanted something that looked like a Browning or a Beretta - and the mfg's smelled money and saw a market. What I think the customers really wanted - was a serviceable gun / nothing fancy --bare bones ....but they wanted guns that would hold up "for awhile" - without the extras they perceived that added price without increased functionality ....

I think, most of the mfg's that jumped into that arena - took advantage of buyers - and some mfg's took their mfg'ing overseas to countries that had little if any idea of how to make a decent O/U ---like Russia and sometimes Turkey.... The result were some terrible guns - bad parts, guns that fired both barrels at once, ribs that fell off, stocks that cracked, firing pin springs or components that failed - and what I think is the biggest problem - barrels that had different Points of Impact .....and sometimes wildly different ---at 21 yards one was high and right 10" / and other barrel was low and left 6" on a Hugulu a young shooter bought at my club .....

The other problem is that gun shop retail salespeople ....have very little experience with shotguns ....often repeating what the marketing rep says, or going based on price, or what the senior sales guy says ....and there is all kinds of really poor info out there!

Noone like to admit they got suckered in buying a $500 gun let alone a $3,000 gun ....

I'm critical of retailers that sell a "Citori" ....as the last gun you'll ever need ....when they may not even realize there are about 25 Citori models - let alone that they are not created equally. As an example, of the 25 or so models of Citori out there -- about 20 of them, would be a complete waste of money for me personally, because they do not "Fit" me. Now they are all solid, well built guns ...but it sure doesn't mean they are for me !!

What some of us are trying to say - is educate yourself - on price, on quality, on durability, on weight, on balance - on what stock dimensions fit you ...as you make your choices to spend money on a shotgun. As long as you do that / based on your budget ...and make an informed choice ....I and everyone else on this forum will be happy for you.

I will also tell you that 2 or 3 out of 10 guns that come out of some of these mfg's seem to be pretty good ....for 2,500 or maybe even 10,000 shells ...but the question is, looking at a gun in a box, how the heck do you know / and what is going to happen if it isn't ...can it be fixed, who will fix it, how long will it be gone, where do you send it ....???

but to just rant at your perception that some of us are picking on less expensive shotguns with no reason - does not contribute to the discussion ---and in fact, it reinforces what some of those poor mfg's and poor retailers know ( that if you make it look pretty good on the surface ) you can fool the buyers into not checking out what you've really put into the gun ( or worse yet, what you left out ) ...

[johnbt]

The more expensive guns have enough problems. The $2k to $4k guns. The less expensive ones simply tend to have more problems. It's just a fact of life.

[jmr40]

If you are the kind of guy who shoots a box of shells a year it will last you a lifetime. Much more than that and you will understand in a few years. You will reach a point where it will cost more to repair the gun than it's worth.

Yea, I'd love to have a cheap double that works too. Been there and done that just like you tried. Wish someone had given me good advice 30 years ago. I wouldn't have wasted so much money on cheap doubles that let me down eventually.

Want a cheap shotgun that will hold up and work, buy a Mossberg 500 or Remington 870.

[musicmatty]

Well Lizziedog...To each his own for sure..I don't think it does any good to insult those who have and can afford more or those who can't or simply choose not to have such high dollar gear.

Anymore..I buy used guns in good condition..a little refurbishing is good for the soul I believe. At age 43..Im old school and pair of old Military Surplus wool pants and wool shirt will do me on a cold winters day out deer hunting with my old Trustworthy model 94 with the smell of hopps #9 drifting outward from it. Maintaining a weapon is more essential to the art than owning an expensive or cheapo model when it comes time to score the catch.