Ruger 45 won't accept favorite load

lkbenson · April 24, 2009, 06:10 PM

I just bought a new Blackhawk, 45 convertible, and can’t shoot my favorite loads in it. I like shooting a LaserCast 300gr. in my Vaquero. It is loaded and crimped on the bottom crimp groove making the oal right at 1.64” When I tried them in the BH the rounds wouldn’t chamber all the way in. They extend just far enough to rub. I did some checking and found that all of the chambers, up to where the throat starts, were .03” shorter on the BH than on the Vaquero, just enough shorter to prevent chambering the round. The throat being .4521" the bullet won't enter the throat without a lot of urging. In other words the Vaquero chamber is long enough to contain the shell and bullet but the BH is short enough to force the bullet into the throat if the shell is chambered all the way.
I am a little leery of loading that bullet to the top crimp groove as my oal would be in the neighborhood of 1.57” to 1.58” with a healthy dose of H-110 behind it. The load is high pressure as it is and I’m afraid of pressure rising by seating the bullet deeper.
Has anybody else come across this situation and if so what have you done to correct the problem?
The only solution I’ve come up with so far is to limit my loads to 255gr. (which I really don’t want to do) or ream the cylinder so that I have a little longer length.
I am open to suggestions.

ligonierbill · April 24, 2009, 07:19 PM

Yes, I ran into a similar situation. Same gun, same bullet, same powder. In my BH, however, the interference is very minor. While 250's drop right in, I need to make sure the rim is flush with the 300's. I wonder if there is that much variation in Blackhawk chambers. I never measured mine, but maybe I should. I have been thinking of taking mine to a gunsmith to work the trigger; he should be able to clean up the cylinder at the same time.

**Unclenick** · April 24, 2009, 07:28 PM

Never seat a bullet deeper without lowering the powder charge. That's a good way to get excess pressure, which happens rapidly with increased seating depth in the straight wall pistol cases.

Slug your new gun's bore. If the groove diameter is .451" and you have no constrictions in the barrel, then the obvious solution is to buy a Lee .452 bullet sizer for your press and run your bullets through it before loading them for the BH. The more expensive approach is to get the chambers reamed to match the Vaquero's. If you have to seat shorter, knock your load down 8%. That should give you a rough peak pressure match.

Ruger4570 · April 24, 2009, 11:04 PM

I have a Ruger Stainless Convertable in 45 Colt, actually I have a couple of Ruger 45 Colts. I bought a Throating Reamer from Brownells that opened up the throat to .4525. Now every throat is the same. I was surprised to find that the guns, had throats diameters off by .003 between the different chambers. Probably because all 6 chambers are drilled with a single pass of one 6 bit machine.

**Unclenick** · April 25, 2009, 12:03 PM

Ah. I thought he had that already, but he says .4521, not .4525. My error. You can do what Ruger4570 said, or you can send the cylinder to the guys at cylindersmith.com, who will do the reaming for $37. I believe if you call them to get in line, their turnaround is just a couple or three days. Check the site.

lkbenson · April 25, 2009, 06:31 PM

Ligonierbill: You are the first person I’ve heard from that has had the same problem. With all of the newer Blackhawks out there I would have figured that it was more common. I could probably force the round into the chamber but think I will either lengthen the chambers to equal my Vaquero or do as Unclenick suggests and buy the Lee bullet sizer. It comes down to $20 and having to resize the bullets or $70 and be done with it.
Thanks to all the replies, lkbenson

feets · April 25, 2009, 06:49 PM

Isn't the new Blackhawk built on the smaller frame like the new Vaquero? I know they're smaller than my Vaquero from the early 90s. It's hard to see the difference until you have them side by side.

If it's the new small frame revolver, will it take the pressures absorbed by the older large frame?

lkbenson · April 26, 2009, 11:18 AM

Feets......The "New Blackhawk" that I have is dimensionally identical to my old Vaquero. I even put a caliper on both of them to make sure. The cylinders are identical in dimensions. I wouldn't be sceptical of shooting any load in the BH that I have shot in the Vaquero.

ligonierbill · May 8, 2009, 07:49 PM

Unclenick gave good advice. I shipped my cylinder off to cylindersmith and got it back in a week. Nice clean job, and those 300 grain bullets drop right in now. Their website notes that the lion's share of their work is Blackhawk .45 Colt cylinders, so tight throats must be common in this model.

April 24, 2009, 06:10 PM	#1
lkbenson Junior Member Join Date: February 10, 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 7	Ruger 45 won't accept favorite load I just bought a new Blackhawk, 45 convertible, and can’t shoot my favorite loads in it. I like shooting a LaserCast 300gr. in my Vaquero. It is loaded and crimped on the bottom crimp groove making the oal right at 1.64” When I tried them in the BH the rounds wouldn’t chamber all the way in. They extend just far enough to rub. I did some checking and found that all of the chambers, up to where the throat starts, were .03” shorter on the BH than on the Vaquero, just enough shorter to prevent chambering the round. The throat being .4521" the bullet won't enter the throat without a lot of urging. In other words the Vaquero chamber is long enough to contain the shell and bullet but the BH is short enough to force the bullet into the throat if the shell is chambered all the way. I am a little leery of loading that bullet to the top crimp groove as my oal would be in the neighborhood of 1.57” to 1.58” with a healthy dose of H-110 behind it. The load is high pressure as it is and I’m afraid of pressure rising by seating the bullet deeper. Has anybody else come across this situation and if so what have you done to correct the problem? The only solution I’ve come up with so far is to limit my loads to 255gr. (which I really don’t want to do) or ream the cylinder so that I have a little longer length. I am open to suggestions.

April 24, 2009, 07:28 PM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Never seat a bullet deeper without lowering the powder charge. That's a good way to get excess pressure, which happens rapidly with increased seating depth in the straight wall pistol cases. Slug your new gun's bore. If the groove diameter is .451" and you have no constrictions in the barrel, then the obvious solution is to buy a Lee .452 bullet sizer for your press and run your bullets through it before loading them for the BH. The more expensive approach is to get the chambers reamed to match the Vaquero's. If you have to seat shorter, knock your load down 8%. That should give you a rough peak pressure match. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 25, 2009, 12:03 PM	#5
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,063	Ah. I thought he had that already, but he says .4521, not .4525. My error. You can do what Ruger4570 said, or you can send the cylinder to the guys at cylindersmith.com, who will do the reaming for $37. I believe if you call them to get in line, their turnaround is just a couple or three days. Check the site. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

April 24, 2009, 07:19 PM	#2
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Yes, I ran into a similar situation. Same gun, same bullet, same powder. In my BH, however, the interference is very minor. While 250's drop right in, I need to make sure the rim is flush with the 300's. I wonder if there is that much variation in Blackhawk chambers. I never measured mine, but maybe I should. I have been thinking of taking mine to a gunsmith to work the trigger; he should be able to clean up the cylinder at the same time.

April 24, 2009, 11:04 PM	#4
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	I have a Ruger Stainless Convertable in 45 Colt, actually I have a couple of Ruger 45 Colts. I bought a Throating Reamer from Brownells that opened up the throat to .4525. Now every throat is the same. I was surprised to find that the guns, had throats diameters off by .003 between the different chambers. Probably because all 6 chambers are drilled with a single pass of one 6 bit machine.

April 25, 2009, 06:31 PM	#6
lkbenson Junior Member Join Date: February 10, 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 7	Ligonierbill: You are the first person I’ve heard from that has had the same problem. With all of the newer Blackhawks out there I would have figured that it was more common. I could probably force the round into the chamber but think I will either lengthen the chambers to equal my Vaquero or do as Unclenick suggests and buy the Lee bullet sizer. It comes down to $20 and having to resize the bullets or $70 and be done with it. Thanks to all the replies, lkbenson

April 25, 2009, 06:49 PM	#7
feets Senior Member Join Date: April 28, 2008 Posts: 560	Isn't the new Blackhawk built on the smaller frame like the new Vaquero? I know they're smaller than my Vaquero from the early 90s. It's hard to see the difference until you have them side by side. If it's the new small frame revolver, will it take the pressures absorbed by the older large frame?

April 26, 2009, 11:18 AM	#8
lkbenson Junior Member Join Date: February 10, 2006 Location: Colorado Posts: 7	Feets......The "New Blackhawk" that I have is dimensionally identical to my old Vaquero. I even put a caliper on both of them to make sure. The cylinders are identical in dimensions. I wouldn't be sceptical of shooting any load in the BH that I have shot in the Vaquero.

May 8, 2009, 07:49 PM	#9
ligonierbill Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2007 Posts: 2,456	Unclenick gave good advice. I shipped my cylinder off to cylindersmith and got it back in a week. Nice clean job, and those 300 grain bullets drop right in now. Their website notes that the lion's share of their work is Blackhawk .45 Colt cylinders, so tight throats must be common in this model.