Hypothetical Question re: Notifying the ATF when you move items across state lines

AmesJainchill · December 7, 2006, 01:56 AM

I run a GURPS Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game.

That is, a made-up, not-real, totally fictional game with no basis in reality.

Everyone got that?

The game is set in the United States, in the current day. We use real world prices for ammo and weapons.

In this game, one of the characters is somewhat well-off and posesses, legally under the NFA, a Micro-Uzi machinegun and an M-79 grenade launcher. The player has refrained from purchasing HE rounds, preferring to purchase tear gas, to give a more favorable impression in the hypothetical scenario that the character is confronted by the police--a group of dispersed thugs is a lot better than a pile of gore.

Now, I have stressed that if the character is caught by the police using these weapons, even legally, he'll be crucified in court ( I read here about the case of the H&K sales rep shooting the biker with a machine gun, long legal battle, loses his job, etc.).

Now, there's only a few ways for the police to track down whether his specific weapons are used in the crimes:
-Ballistic fingerprinting (easy enough to circumvent)

-Checking where the NFA items are when the character leaves the state. Asking to see them when he's out of state probably present legal problems for the ATF (the character does have a wife and children).

This would take a lot of suspicion placed on the character and would be in a scenario that would more likely result in him being arrested anyway because of other evidence. But the smallest things can make a difference.

I also know that you are supposed to tell the ATF if you move an NFA item across state lines. What kind of process is this?

shaggy · December 7, 2006, 06:03 AM

Quote:

I also know that you are supposed to tell the ATF if you move an NFA item across state lines. What kind of process is this?

File a form 5320.20

Wait until you get it back approved (usually a couple weeks).

AmesJainchill · December 7, 2006, 01:16 PM

Ah, thank you.

Travismaine · December 7, 2006, 01:27 PM

It is very easy I do it all the time.

AmesJainchill · December 7, 2006, 01:41 PM

Yes that's certainly true. Paperwork is nothing to be afraid of.
But two to three weeks notice for moving a weapon isn't going to happen often in Call of Cthulhu, and "destroying Things Man Was Not Meant To Know" doesn't go down well with the ATF as a reason for moving the weapon.

Musketeer · December 7, 2006, 03:21 PM

You could avert this by playing the original Cuthulu based in the 20s and avoid all the trouble with the ATF.

My SOP in 1920/30s CofC was to not read ANYTHING. Avoid looking at as much as possible and when ever the opportunity presented itself offer to cover the other person while they open doors or walk down halls and caves. Brings me back to my university days from over a decade ago...

AmesJainchill · December 7, 2006, 08:55 PM

You don't have the the familiarity you do with another period. It makes it a lot easier to run a game.
And I don't think I could go without the PCs seeing ("Donna Reed, on location, for CNN,...") the outcome of their missions from the law enforcement perspective.

Hkmp5sd · December 8, 2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Now, I have stressed that if the character is caught by the police using these weapons, even legally, he'll be crucified in court ( I read here about the case of the H&K sales rep shooting the biker with a machine gun, long legal battle, loses his job, etc.).

As using these weapons, whether in legal self defense or not, and leaving the scene of the shooting would be a crime in itself, why worry about NFA requirements? I'd bet many of your common weapons are being transported, carried and used illegally also.

Note: ATF only approves the trip if the NFA item is legal at the destination, which would limit the number of places to take NFA items.

If there were a series of shootings where a machinegun was apparently used and there was a record of ATF request forms listing each of theses spots as destinations for your character, he might get a special visit.

Bottom line, it would be wiser for your characters to acquire illegal NFA items and use them as disposable weapons. Then you could also ignore the NFA laws.

AmesJainchill · December 8, 2006, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Note: ATF only approves the trip if the NFA item is legal at the destination, which would limit the number of places to take NFA items.

Well, obviously.

December 7, 2006, 01:56 AM	#1
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	Hypothetical Question re: Notifying the ATF when you move items across state lines I run a GURPS Call of Cthulhu roleplaying game. That is, a made-up, not-real, totally fictional game with no basis in reality. Everyone got that? The game is set in the United States, in the current day. We use real world prices for ammo and weapons. In this game, one of the characters is somewhat well-off and posesses, legally under the NFA, a Micro-Uzi machinegun and an M-79 grenade launcher. The player has refrained from purchasing HE rounds, preferring to purchase tear gas, to give a more favorable impression in the hypothetical scenario that the character is confronted by the police--a group of dispersed thugs is a lot better than a pile of gore. Now, I have stressed that if the character is caught by the police using these weapons, even legally, he'll be crucified in court ( I read here about the case of the H&K sales rep shooting the biker with a machine gun, long legal battle, loses his job, etc.). Now, there's only a few ways for the police to track down whether his specific weapons are used in the crimes: -Ballistic fingerprinting (easy enough to circumvent) -Checking where the NFA items are when the character leaves the state. Asking to see them when he's out of state probably present legal problems for the ATF (the character does have a wife and children). This would take a lot of suspicion placed on the character and would be in a scenario that would more likely result in him being arrested anyway because of other evidence. But the smallest things can make a difference. I also know that you are supposed to tell the ATF if you move an NFA item across state lines. What kind of process is this?

December 7, 2006, 01:16 PM	#3
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	Ah, thank you.

December 7, 2006, 01:27 PM	#4
Travismaine Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2006 Posts: 147	It is very easy I do it all the time.

December 7, 2006, 01:41 PM	#5
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	Yes that's certainly true. Paperwork is nothing to be afraid of. But two to three weeks notice for moving a weapon isn't going to happen often in Call of Cthulhu, and "destroying Things Man Was Not Meant To Know" doesn't go down well with the ATF as a reason for moving the weapon.

December 7, 2006, 03:21 PM	#6
Musketeer Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2005 Posts: 3,733	You could avert this by playing the original Cuthulu based in the 20s and avoid all the trouble with the ATF. My SOP in 1920/30s CofC was to not read ANYTHING. Avoid looking at as much as possible and when ever the opportunity presented itself offer to cover the other person while they open doors or walk down halls and caves. Brings me back to my university days from over a decade ago...

December 7, 2006, 08:55 PM	#7
AmesJainchill Senior Member Join Date: June 1, 2006 Posts: 278	You don't have the the familiarity you do with another period. It makes it a lot easier to run a game. And I don't think I could go without the PCs seeing ("Donna Reed, on location, for CNN,...") the outcome of their missions from the law enforcement perspective.