Room Mates - Page 2

ws6_keith · July 29, 2007, 10:33 PM

I think he's going to find that list to be short Mattro.

joe07735 · July 29, 2007, 10:55 PM

There are no colleges that I know of that allow a student to carry and it's a bit late in the game to switch schools

Does anyone know of any gun ranges/clubs in the philly area. It would be cool if they offered rental lockers or the like for patrons to store their arms. I know it defeats the purpose of home defense, but at least I'd be able to own and practice with a firearm. Therefore, when I do manage to get my own place I'll have a weapon readily available that I have ample experience with.

As far as alcohol is concerned yes I do drink, but I never get to the point of retardation. Also, I would never attempt to handle a firearm with any amount of alcohol in me, not because I believe that 1-3 beers would impair me, but because god forbid something did happen alcohol makes one look negligent.

PS - I think alot of people are missing the point that I am ONLY 18 and CANNOT carry legally. If I believed that carrying a gun would be worth the legal trouble I would, but on a liberal campus, which sadly Drexel is, god forbid I printed or "flashed" someone my life as I know it would be over. If there was a known threat to me I would consider skirting the law, but as it stands I'm in no more danger than any other student, and probably less because of my size.

jrock18 · July 30, 2007, 04:06 PM

Could someone please refer a Pennsylvania resident to this thread so that I can ask them a couple questions?

1.) What is the process like in PA to obtain a firearm

2.) Is an extendable baton legal?

3.) Does anyone know any good ranges in the Philadelphia area?

4.) Would anyone be willing to shoot with me if I traveled to their location/preferred gun range?

5.) Do you know if any ranges have a storage facility that I could pay to use?

Thanks in advance for any help.

mattro · July 30, 2007, 04:12 PM

Always carry a folding knife and a flashlight.

If you can legally do it, keep a pistol in your vehicle in a lockbox anchored down behind or under the seat. A long gun behind the seat hidden would be nice.

jrock18 · July 30, 2007, 04:20 PM

I always carry a kershaw 3 inch folding knife, I use it for everything but I could definitely do damage with it if need be. I'm more interested in a baton because I'm a big guy so a knife is great, but why not use my size to my advantage and inflict some blunt trauma. I'm more of a "smasher" anyway I'd rather smack someone over the head and knock them out than stab/cut them. IMO a baton would be more effective in my hands because I'm not the nimble quick type, but more of a slow powerful type.

Knotthead · July 30, 2007, 05:03 PM

Hopefully someone with an understanding of PA's gun laws will check in to clarify matters, but I seem to recall that while long guns are easily acquired with a background check from a dealer, or without in a FTF transfer, handguns are more closely regulated and require a FFL to transfer. I seem to recall mention of some kind of backdoor registration for them as well.

As for securing a shotgun, if you can't get a gunsafe, would simply securing the ammunition in a smaller lockbox, when prudent, provide enough security? I'm not necessarily advocating this as a solution, but a consideration.

jrock18 · July 30, 2007, 05:13 PM

If I can't secure a firearm I'd rather not own it. I would think that my room mates would be reliable, but they may have friends who aren't; and I can't risk some idiot getting his hands on a 12ga shotgun. Realistically I think it would be better if I bought a pistol and a small safe if I bought anything, but like I said this isn't an option for another year.

philapdrcrt · July 30, 2007, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Could someone please refer a Pennsylvania resident to this thread so that I can ask them a couple questions?

1.) What is the process like in PA to obtain a firearm

2.) Is an extendable baton legal?

3.) Does anyone know any good ranges in the Philadelphia area?

4.) Would anyone be willing to shoot with me if I traveled to their location/preferred gun range?

5.) Do you know if any ranges have a storage facility that I could pay to use?

Thanks in advance for any help.

1)Purchase from FFL, requires PA-issued driver's license or non-driver ID card. Must be 18 or over for long guns, 21 or over for handguns. Must pass a PICS (instant-check) background check (usally takes 15 minutes, may take up to a 15-day pending period if there are complications.) Face-to-face transfers at an FFL are legal but many FFLs do not process them because there is too much paper involved. Off the top of my head, the only place in the Philly area who does do them is Johnston's Automotive and Tackle in Croydon (Buck's County.)

2) Expandable batons are technically legal but using one in a self-defense situation that is not 100% justified in the use of force can lead to a number of charges including the use of prohibited offensive weapons, aggravated assault, posession of an instrument of crime, etc. etc. Pepper spray is a much safer (from a legal standpoint) alternative.

3) There are several good ranges in and around Philly. The ones that come to mind are The Firing Line in South Philly (S. Front Street @ Dickinson Street,) South Philly Archery & Gun Club (Ellsworth St. btw S 8th & S 9th,) and the club where I shoot, Classic Pistol (Southhampton, Bucks County.) There are several others, but those are the ones where I have experience.

4)I'm always looking for shooting partners, but Southhampton's a bit of a hike from University City, and not worth the complications of SEPTA if you're not bringing your car to school.

5)Don't know of such facilities at a range. Not likely, as I'm pretty sure ATF regs require that a weapon left in the custody of an FFL (as most ranges are) log it into their inventory and their bound book, noting the name and contact info of the legal owner and the reason it was left in their custody (ie. sale, repair, consignment)

More to the point, though, I've lived in Philly my whole life and have never NEEDED a firearm. I've lived in neighborhoods far worse than Drexel's corner of U.City (East Kensington, anybody?) and never drawn my weapon. If you want a long gun, fine, but it's definitely not worth getting kicked out of the dorm or expelled for. Pepper spray, folding knife, flashlight are all, or probably more, than you will need.

On the note of roommates and storage, I kept my handguns in a storage locker with cable locks on them, and my shotgun in the closet cable-locked to a U-bolt in the walls stud when I had roommates.

joe07735 · July 30, 2007, 07:07 PM

Thanks alot for all of the information philapdrcrt.

9mmHP · July 30, 2007, 07:32 PM

Actually, University City isn't all that bad now, I was pleasantly surprised when I visited it a year or two ago. I used to live in Grays Ferry in the '70's and '80's (across the Schuylkill from U City area) and its a sewer, has been for 30 years. U City used to be as bad, or worse, (especially when MOVE was in the area) but it's really gone upscale and been cleaned up. I went to college at St. Joe's, which is in the Overbrook area and was another bad part of town and had to cross West Philadelphia to get there. I carried illegally, first a Walther PP, then a Colt Mustang, in my front pants pocket! Never got stopped though it wore a outline of the gun in my jeans. There were 3 or four occasions where I desperately needed a gun, and you never know when those occasions will come along. Had to produce the Mustang on one occasion to deter a baseball bat waving thug. If you stck to U City and Center City (during daylight mostly) you lessen your chances of something bad happening. Good luck.

joe07735 · July 30, 2007, 08:57 PM

I've heard from others that the minute you wander outside of University City you're asking for trouble; especially at night. I don't know how true this is, but I'd rather be safe than sorry and I don't intend to alter my schedule and social life to skirt around the nastier inhabitants of the city. I'd rather just go about my business and be ready in case something does happen.

bcrash15 · July 30, 2007, 09:08 PM

While I don't know this would work so well for a shotgun, I have learned that a filing cabinet makes a pretty good gun safe. They are big enough that no one is going to be able to move it without significant effort, time, and noise. Breaking into one typically requires even more noise, more that most people would be willing to make in an apartment or conjoined housing unit. There are models you can bolt to the floor and many have pretty sturdy locks. We had some locked and forgotten filing cabinets in the back of the equipment room at the school 's project garage and it took us about an hour to get them open with a full machine shop at our disposal (minus cutting torches, they were full of paper

).

As for roommates, I purchased a couple long guns while I was living with my current one and they took temporary residence there until I could transport them back to my parents house. I think I really made him nervous with them even though I never had any ammo in the apartment. I have a revolver now, and I think I am going to take it back, but I am uncertain whether I am going to tell him about it. If you are going to have one and are not willing to tell the roomies everything about it (location, use, etc...) which admittedly doesn't sound like a good idea in this case, there is really no reason for them to know about it at all.

SatanzBountyHunter · July 30, 2007, 09:24 PM

This is all in what you feel comfortable with, but when my daughter goes off to college next year, believe me she will have her XD-9. Like someone else told you already, you can buy one from a private party and its legal. Had my first Colt .45ACP at 18 this way.

Have you thought about screening potential roomates for ones that hunt or have similiar gun interests? They may prove to be knowledgable enough about guns that they will have the proper respect for them and they won't be an issue around the house...plus you might end up with a couple more shooters in the house and that may end up being safer. Don't know much about the part of the world you live in, but just a thought. You might meet some hunters/shooters during your first year.

You could also just have pretty girls for roomates. Besides the obvious benefits, they probably won't be interested in firearms enough to mess with them.

I hope that whatever you are studying in that environment will soon allow you to afford to live in a place without mutants roaming the neighborhood. Good luck and study hard.

njtrigger · July 30, 2007, 09:57 PM

So you will be in a college environment with curious roommates, friends and girlfriends. Some of these people you hardly know and who knows what psychological issues they might have. I can tell you that your stuff will be thoroughly searched at some point by one or more of the above people. Someone is going to mess with the weapon even if its well concealed.

I say to get a small digital combo safe where you can quickly enter in 3 numbers to access the pistol.

In any event, there will be no truely secure way to store the pistol or shotgun. Steel boxes can be pried into using common tools.

http://gunsafestore.com/vehiclegunsafe.htm

WhiteFeather93 · July 30, 2007, 10:56 PM

Just my .02

Here is all of the PA Firearms laws you need to brush up on.

http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6109.html

Take some time and read over this information before you get yourself in trouble. Philadelphia has some preemption over state law in some areas.

I would stay clear of batons, auto knifes, nunchucks, switchblades. OC spray is advisable but check Philly law about the amount. There are restrictions on stun guns in Philadelphia. I personally do not carry a stun gun because of their ineffectiveness. I can stand still and poke myself in the leg with a stun gun and it doesn't bother me. A tazer on the other hand is different but I do not know the statues on them yet.
I live in PA but up in farm country. I doubt you want to drive that far to seek a range.
There is some good advice here good luck!

jrock18 · July 31, 2007, 01:00 AM

satan'sbountyhunter:

I can assure you that it would be a bad idea for your daughter to bring a gun to college, unless you're sure the college allows it. In my past 2 days of googling I haven't found any.

mattro · July 31, 2007, 06:22 AM

Boy that's a tuff one. I can't imagine sending one of my daughters off without being armed. But, it would really suck to get kicked out of school, with a week left before finals or something...

JAXX · July 31, 2007, 07:01 AM

FWIW I think that many of the colleges in Utah allow CCW as it's allowed by the state. Also, there are some pretty solid gun safes out there in the 100-200 dollar range that can be lag bolted into studs, yet easily moved by 2 guys when they are empty. While a pistol would be easier to wield in a small apartment, so would an 18" barrel Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip. And believe me, nothing scares off a bad guy quicker than hearing the action cycle on a pump action shotgun. The sound is very distinct. For home defense, I don't think there are many on this forum that would argue the effectiveness of a 12 GA shotgun. Many (myself included) believe they are the best weapon for home defense.

SatanzBountyHunter · July 31, 2007, 08:23 AM

Quote:

I can assure you that it would be a bad idea for your daughter to bring a gun to college, unless you're sure the college allows it. In my past 2 days of googling I haven't found any.

She won't be taking it to class with her and she won't be living in a dorm room either. She will be living alone or maybe with 1 of her friends and driving a lonely Texas highway when she comes home for visits. I raised her as a single parent, she is my only child. She will have a gun to protect herself ...her safety isn't negotiable.

mikejonestkd · July 31, 2007, 08:34 AM

SatanBH,

I congratulate you on taking the iniative to train your daughter to safely use a firearm and to have one to protect herself. I agree with most of the posts in this thread concerning the safety of students on campus.

A college campus is still one of the safest places in America when it comes to violent crime. There are lots of petty crime and typical college age antics but, as a whole, colleges are pretty safe places.

I work on campus and cannot even leave a firearm in the trunk of my car, I am certain that unless the college she attends allows firearms on campus that they will have a similar policy to the SUNY system.

If I bring a firearm on campus I will lose my job and face charges.

If she is caught with one on campus she will be expelled and face charges.

A good lock box in her apartment is a great idea, but review campus policy before advocating that she leave it in her car on campus.

Just my 3 cents on the topic.

good luck and stay safe

Mr. James · July 31, 2007, 08:49 AM

well done, SBH.

Quite frankly, jrock18, I would not introduce a firearm into this setting until/unless you genuinely trust your roomies not to mess with your gear, or you secure the weapon and keep your mouth shut about it.

My own experience was not at all remarkable. I knew some of my roomates well, knew some not at all. Some I met for the first time the day we moved in. Some could be trusted, others not. All of them were partial to drinking, brawling, consorting with loose women and general riotous living. All of them at one time or another brought other friends and acquaintances in.

One turned out, to my astonishment, to be a low-level cocaine dealer. He found religion when his own supplier was found face down in a pool of his own blood. Who the hell knows what sort of "clientele" he traipsed through that house when the rest of us weren't there?

Another roomate (different house) kept a Remington 870 in his closet. Of course, he couldn't resist a little show and tell. I never messed with it and never saw anyone else mess with it. However, aside from the owner, none of us had any appreciable knowledge of, or experience with, firearms, and given our drinking and other social habits back then, it could have ended quite badly.

Just some thoughts . . .

9mmHP · July 31, 2007, 09:34 AM

Philadelphia doesn't have preemption over state law in regards to licensed carry though they dearly desire it. State law treats Philadelphia very slightly differently than the rest of the state as the only "city of the first class" (over 1 mil. pop.) in that open carry is not legal without a carry license. Before the early '90s Philadelphia refused to honor any carry licenses but its own, but the legislature very wisely put an end to that. Philadelphia unfortunately has had about 40 years of corrupt and incompetent, even criminal, leadership and is circling the drain as a result. I hope it can pull it together.

Samurai · July 31, 2007, 10:49 AM

jrock18,

It was just 4 years ago that I was in your situation, trying to deal with gun ownership around my college roommates. What's more, my roommates have all been rather peace-loving hippies, who drank and did drugs alot, but did not approve of my owning a gun at all. Suffice to say, this situation CAN be handled...

College dorms: OBEY THE RULES!!! If you're not allowed to have a gun, DON'T HAVE ONE!!! At my school, the college police department had a "check" system, where you could bring your gun to them, and they would check it. You could pick it up from them on your way off campus, and bring it back when you returned. Think, instead of your alternative weapons. Sounds like you've got the baseball bat. Think of some projectile weapons, like mace or tazers. Load up on sharp things. And, increase your warning systems: Set up an alarm on the door, cameras, etc. Plain and simple versions of these things can be purchased pretty cheaply nowadays.

Private Apartments: There are LOTS of ways to secure a gun in an apartment. Design your security around your liability: the roommates. Remember, in our particular situation, we're not trying, necessarilly, to secure the shotgun against theft (or fire, or floods, etc...). We're only trying to secure it against tampering by the roommates. All you need is a box for the shotgun that has a lock on it. The box doesn't have to be hardened ballistic steel, it doesn't have to be fireproof, and it doesn't have to require DNA samples for entry. Just a plain old box with a lock on it! That will keep the drunk college kids from accidentally finding it and messing with it.

My solution, for my handguns, was a nice, decorative wooden chest, with a pretty, yet secure, key-locking brass latch. It works fine. Kids can't get in without the keys, so it's a place to secure the guns, if needs be.

For your shotgun, I would recommend one of the cheap, black plastic gun cases (the kind with the egg-shell foam inside), and a couple of padlocks. The case should have little loops for locks, and that will work fine to keep the drunken college kids out for the night. When it's just you, unlock and open the case, so the shotgun will be handy.

Send me a PM if you want to talk more about it. Good luck!

JAXX · July 31, 2007, 12:10 PM

Samurai, while overall, your post is well thought out, I have to disagree with you on one thing; the gun "case". In the apartment environment with roomates, I would strongly suggest you DO secure the firearm (whatever you choose) against theft. While you may be able to say you trust each and every one of your roomates, can you say that about every single person that they may possibly bring into your home while you're not there? Chances are there will be parties taking place while you're not home, and we all know that during parties like that, nothing is off limits. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, at one time or another, unknown to you, your stuff will be searched. A plastic gun case with luggage type locks will be stolen if someone thinks there is anything inside that's worth ten bucks. Just my opinion.

The Tourist · July 31, 2007, 12:20 PM

"there will be times when my roommate/s and I are intoxicated."

You don't need a firearm, you need a change of lifestyle.

Until you're mature enough to be a responsible citizen, you're not old enough or smart enough to own and use potentially dangerous weapons.

Any headline that reads Drunken Student With Gun does not merit my support. The kid, and I use the proper term, deserves to have the gun taken away by an adult, and he has earned the rebuke of society.

July 29, 2007, 10:33 PM	#26
ws6_keith Senior Member Join Date: September 25, 1999 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 147	I think he's going to find that list to be short Mattro. __________________ Keith http://www.ws6.com

July 30, 2007, 04:12 PM	#29
mattro Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 224	Always carry a folding knife and a flashlight. If you can legally do it, keep a pistol in your vehicle in a lockbox anchored down behind or under the seat. A long gun behind the seat hidden would be nice. __________________ My Battle Rifle has no sporting purpose.

July 30, 2007, 09:24 PM	#38
SatanzBountyHunter Senior Member Join Date: June 9, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 128	This is all in what you feel comfortable with, but when my daughter goes off to college next year, believe me she will have her XD-9. Like someone else told you already, you can buy one from a private party and its legal. Had my first Colt .45ACP at 18 this way. Have you thought about screening potential roomates for ones that hunt or have similiar gun interests? They may prove to be knowledgable enough about guns that they will have the proper respect for them and they won't be an issue around the house...plus you might end up with a couple more shooters in the house and that may end up being safer. Don't know much about the part of the world you live in, but just a thought. You might meet some hunters/shooters during your first year. You could also just have pretty girls for roomates. Besides the obvious benefits, they probably won't be interested in firearms enough to mess with them. I hope that whatever you are studying in that environment will soon allow you to afford to live in a place without mutants roaming the neighborhood. Good luck and study hard. __________________ Because you can't starve us out and you can't make us run, cause we're them 'ol boys raised on shotguns. We say "grace" and we say "ma'am" if you ain't into that we don't give a damn -Bocephus

July 30, 2007, 10:56 PM	#40
WhiteFeather93 Senior Member Join Date: October 16, 2005 Location: Oley Pa Posts: 281	Just my .02 Here is all of the PA Firearms laws you need to brush up on. http://members.aol.com/StatutesP7/18PA6109.html Take some time and read over this information before you get yourself in trouble. Philadelphia has some preemption over state law in some areas. I would stay clear of batons, auto knifes, nunchucks, switchblades. OC spray is advisable but check Philly law about the amount. There are restrictions on stun guns in Philadelphia. I personally do not carry a stun gun because of their ineffectiveness. I can stand still and poke myself in the leg with a stun gun and it doesn't bother me. A tazer on the other hand is different but I do not know the statues on them yet. I live in PA but up in farm country. I doubt you want to drive that far to seek a range. There is some good advice here good luck! __________________ "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity" -Freud "A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." -Thomas Jefferson.

July 31, 2007, 06:22 AM	#42
mattro Senior Member Join Date: May 28, 2007 Location: Indiana Posts: 224	Boy that's a tuff one. I can't imagine sending one of my daughters off without being armed. But, it would really suck to get kicked out of school, with a week left before finals or something... __________________ My Battle Rifle has no sporting purpose.

July 29, 2007, 10:55 PM	#27
joe07735 Junior member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Posts: 18	There are no colleges that I know of that allow a student to carry and it's a bit late in the game to switch schools Does anyone know of any gun ranges/clubs in the philly area. It would be cool if they offered rental lockers or the like for patrons to store their arms. I know it defeats the purpose of home defense, but at least I'd be able to own and practice with a firearm. Therefore, when I do manage to get my own place I'll have a weapon readily available that I have ample experience with. As far as alcohol is concerned yes I do drink, but I never get to the point of retardation. Also, I would never attempt to handle a firearm with any amount of alcohol in me, not because I believe that 1-3 beers would impair me, but because god forbid something did happen alcohol makes one look negligent. PS - I think alot of people are missing the point that I am ONLY 18 and CANNOT carry legally. If I believed that carrying a gun would be worth the legal trouble I would, but on a liberal campus, which sadly Drexel is, god forbid I printed or "flashed" someone my life as I know it would be over. If there was a known threat to me I would consider skirting the law, but as it stands I'm in no more danger than any other student, and probably less because of my size.

July 30, 2007, 04:06 PM	#28
jrock18 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 18	Could someone please refer a Pennsylvania resident to this thread so that I can ask them a couple questions? 1.) What is the process like in PA to obtain a firearm 2.) Is an extendable baton legal? 3.) Does anyone know any good ranges in the Philadelphia area? 4.) Would anyone be willing to shoot with me if I traveled to their location/preferred gun range? 5.) Do you know if any ranges have a storage facility that I could pay to use? Thanks in advance for any help.

July 30, 2007, 04:20 PM	#30
jrock18 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 18	I always carry a kershaw 3 inch folding knife, I use it for everything but I could definitely do damage with it if need be. I'm more interested in a baton because I'm a big guy so a knife is great, but why not use my size to my advantage and inflict some blunt trauma. I'm more of a "smasher" anyway I'd rather smack someone over the head and knock them out than stab/cut them. IMO a baton would be more effective in my hands because I'm not the nimble quick type, but more of a slow powerful type.

July 30, 2007, 05:03 PM	#31
Knotthead Member Join Date: July 22, 2006 Posts: 71	Hopefully someone with an understanding of PA's gun laws will check in to clarify matters, but I seem to recall that while long guns are easily acquired with a background check from a dealer, or without in a FTF transfer, handguns are more closely regulated and require a FFL to transfer. I seem to recall mention of some kind of backdoor registration for them as well. As for securing a shotgun, if you can't get a gunsafe, would simply securing the ammunition in a smaller lockbox, when prudent, provide enough security? I'm not necessarily advocating this as a solution, but a consideration.

July 30, 2007, 05:13 PM	#32
jrock18 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 18	If I can't secure a firearm I'd rather not own it. I would think that my room mates would be reliable, but they may have friends who aren't; and I can't risk some idiot getting his hands on a 12ga shotgun. Realistically I think it would be better if I bought a pistol and a small safe if I bought anything, but like I said this isn't an option for another year.

July 30, 2007, 07:07 PM	#34
joe07735 Junior member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Posts: 18	Thanks alot for all of the information philapdrcrt.

July 30, 2007, 07:32 PM	#35
9mmHP Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2007 Location: Indiana/Indpls Metro Area Posts: 318	Actually, University City isn't all that bad now, I was pleasantly surprised when I visited it a year or two ago. I used to live in Grays Ferry in the '70's and '80's (across the Schuylkill from U City area) and its a sewer, has been for 30 years. U City used to be as bad, or worse, (especially when MOVE was in the area) but it's really gone upscale and been cleaned up. I went to college at St. Joe's, which is in the Overbrook area and was another bad part of town and had to cross West Philadelphia to get there. I carried illegally, first a Walther PP, then a Colt Mustang, in my front pants pocket! Never got stopped though it wore a outline of the gun in my jeans. There were 3 or four occasions where I desperately needed a gun, and you never know when those occasions will come along. Had to produce the Mustang on one occasion to deter a baseball bat waving thug. If you stck to U City and Center City (during daylight mostly) you lessen your chances of something bad happening. Good luck.

July 30, 2007, 08:57 PM	#36
joe07735 Junior member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Posts: 18	I've heard from others that the minute you wander outside of University City you're asking for trouble; especially at night. I don't know how true this is, but I'd rather be safe than sorry and I don't intend to alter my schedule and social life to skirt around the nastier inhabitants of the city. I'd rather just go about my business and be ready in case something does happen.

July 30, 2007, 09:08 PM	#37
bcrash15 Senior Member Join Date: April 7, 2007 Posts: 455	While I don't know this would work so well for a shotgun, I have learned that a filing cabinet makes a pretty good gun safe. They are big enough that no one is going to be able to move it without significant effort, time, and noise. Breaking into one typically requires even more noise, more that most people would be willing to make in an apartment or conjoined housing unit. There are models you can bolt to the floor and many have pretty sturdy locks. We had some locked and forgotten filing cabinets in the back of the equipment room at the school 's project garage and it took us about an hour to get them open with a full machine shop at our disposal (minus cutting torches, they were full of paper ). As for roommates, I purchased a couple long guns while I was living with my current one and they took temporary residence there until I could transport them back to my parents house. I think I really made him nervous with them even though I never had any ammo in the apartment. I have a revolver now, and I think I am going to take it back, but I am uncertain whether I am going to tell him about it. If you are going to have one and are not willing to tell the roomies everything about it (location, use, etc...) which admittedly doesn't sound like a good idea in this case, there is really no reason for them to know about it at all.

July 30, 2007, 09:57 PM	#39
njtrigger Junior member Join Date: October 14, 2006 Posts: 154	So you will be in a college environment with curious roommates, friends and girlfriends. Some of these people you hardly know and who knows what psychological issues they might have. I can tell you that your stuff will be thoroughly searched at some point by one or more of the above people. Someone is going to mess with the weapon even if its well concealed. I say to get a small digital combo safe where you can quickly enter in 3 numbers to access the pistol. In any event, there will be no truely secure way to store the pistol or shotgun. Steel boxes can be pried into using common tools. http://gunsafestore.com/vehiclegunsafe.htm

July 31, 2007, 01:00 AM	#41
jrock18 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2007 Posts: 18	satan'sbountyhunter: I can assure you that it would be a bad idea for your daughter to bring a gun to college, unless you're sure the college allows it. In my past 2 days of googling I haven't found any.

July 31, 2007, 07:01 AM	#43
JAXX Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Northwest Wyoming Posts: 371	FWIW I think that many of the colleges in Utah allow CCW as it's allowed by the state. Also, there are some pretty solid gun safes out there in the 100-200 dollar range that can be lag bolted into studs, yet easily moved by 2 guys when they are empty. While a pistol would be easier to wield in a small apartment, so would an 18" barrel Mossberg 500 with a pistol grip. And believe me, nothing scares off a bad guy quicker than hearing the action cycle on a pump action shotgun. The sound is very distinct. For home defense, I don't think there are many on this forum that would argue the effectiveness of a 12 GA shotgun. Many (myself included) believe they are the best weapon for home defense. __________________ Lifetime member of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

July 31, 2007, 08:34 AM	#45
mikejonestkd Senior Member Join Date: January 3, 2006 Location: Brockport, NY Posts: 3,717	SatanBH, I congratulate you on taking the iniative to train your daughter to safely use a firearm and to have one to protect herself. I agree with most of the posts in this thread concerning the safety of students on campus. A college campus is still one of the safest places in America when it comes to violent crime. There are lots of petty crime and typical college age antics but, as a whole, colleges are pretty safe places. I work on campus and cannot even leave a firearm in the trunk of my car, I am certain that unless the college she attends allows firearms on campus that they will have a similar policy to the SUNY system. If I bring a firearm on campus I will lose my job and face charges. If she is caught with one on campus she will be expelled and face charges. A good lock box in her apartment is a great idea, but review campus policy before advocating that she leave it in her car on campus. Just my 3 cents on the topic. good luck and stay safe __________________ You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth.

July 31, 2007, 08:49 AM	#46
Mr. James Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 1,521	well done, SBH. Quite frankly, jrock18, I would not introduce a firearm into this setting until/unless you genuinely trust your roomies not to mess with your gear, or you secure the weapon and keep your mouth shut about it. My own experience was not at all remarkable. I knew some of my roomates well, knew some not at all. Some I met for the first time the day we moved in. Some could be trusted, others not. All of them were partial to drinking, brawling, consorting with loose women and general riotous living. All of them at one time or another brought other friends and acquaintances in. One turned out, to my astonishment, to be a low-level cocaine dealer. He found religion when his own supplier was found face down in a pool of his own blood. Who the hell knows what sort of "clientele" he traipsed through that house when the rest of us weren't there? Another roomate (different house) kept a Remington 870 in his closet. Of course, he couldn't resist a little show and tell. I never messed with it and never saw anyone else mess with it. However, aside from the owner, none of us had any appreciable knowledge of, or experience with, firearms, and given our drinking and other social habits back then, it could have ended quite badly. Just some thoughts . . . __________________ "...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat

July 31, 2007, 09:34 AM	#47
9mmHP Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 2007 Location: Indiana/Indpls Metro Area Posts: 318	Philadelphia doesn't have preemption over state law in regards to licensed carry though they dearly desire it. State law treats Philadelphia very slightly differently than the rest of the state as the only "city of the first class" (over 1 mil. pop.) in that open carry is not legal without a carry license. Before the early '90s Philadelphia refused to honor any carry licenses but its own, but the legislature very wisely put an end to that. Philadelphia unfortunately has had about 40 years of corrupt and incompetent, even criminal, leadership and is circling the drain as a result. I hope it can pull it together.

July 31, 2007, 10:49 AM	#48
Samurai Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2001 Location: Knoxville, TN Posts: 901	jrock18, It was just 4 years ago that I was in your situation, trying to deal with gun ownership around my college roommates. What's more, my roommates have all been rather peace-loving hippies, who drank and did drugs alot, but did not approve of my owning a gun at all. Suffice to say, this situation CAN be handled... College dorms: OBEY THE RULES!!! If you're not allowed to have a gun, DON'T HAVE ONE!!! At my school, the college police department had a "check" system, where you could bring your gun to them, and they would check it. You could pick it up from them on your way off campus, and bring it back when you returned. Think, instead of your alternative weapons. Sounds like you've got the baseball bat. Think of some projectile weapons, like mace or tazers. Load up on sharp things. And, increase your warning systems: Set up an alarm on the door, cameras, etc. Plain and simple versions of these things can be purchased pretty cheaply nowadays. Private Apartments: There are LOTS of ways to secure a gun in an apartment. Design your security around your liability: the roommates. Remember, in our particular situation, we're not trying, necessarilly, to secure the shotgun against theft (or fire, or floods, etc...). We're only trying to secure it against tampering by the roommates. All you need is a box for the shotgun that has a lock on it. The box doesn't have to be hardened ballistic steel, it doesn't have to be fireproof, and it doesn't have to require DNA samples for entry. Just a plain old box with a lock on it! That will keep the drunk college kids from accidentally finding it and messing with it. My solution, for my handguns, was a nice, decorative wooden chest, with a pretty, yet secure, key-locking brass latch. It works fine. Kids can't get in without the keys, so it's a place to secure the guns, if needs be. For your shotgun, I would recommend one of the cheap, black plastic gun cases (the kind with the egg-shell foam inside), and a couple of padlocks. The case should have little loops for locks, and that will work fine to keep the drunken college kids out for the night. When it's just you, unlock and open the case, so the shotgun will be handy. Send me a PM if you want to talk more about it. Good luck! __________________ - Honor is a wonderful and glorious thing... until it gets you killed! - Why is it that we fire 1,000 rounds and know that we need more practice, but yet we punch a bag 10 times and think we know how to fight? - When in doubt, train, train, train...

July 31, 2007, 12:10 PM	#49
JAXX Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2007 Location: Northwest Wyoming Posts: 371	Samurai, while overall, your post is well thought out, I have to disagree with you on one thing; the gun "case". In the apartment environment with roomates, I would strongly suggest you DO secure the firearm (whatever you choose) against theft. While you may be able to say you trust each and every one of your roomates, can you say that about every single person that they may possibly bring into your home while you're not there? Chances are there will be parties taking place while you're not home, and we all know that during parties like that, nothing is off limits. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, at one time or another, unknown to you, your stuff will be searched. A plastic gun case with luggage type locks will be stolen if someone thinks there is anything inside that's worth ten bucks. Just my opinion. __________________ Lifetime member of The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy

July 31, 2007, 12:20 PM	#50
The Tourist Junior member Join Date: June 20, 2005 Posts: 2,348	"there will be times when my roommate/s and I are intoxicated." You don't need a firearm, you need a change of lifestyle. Until you're mature enough to be a responsible citizen, you're not old enough or smart enough to own and use potentially dangerous weapons. Any headline that reads Drunken Student With Gun does not merit my support. The kid, and I use the proper term, deserves to have the gun taken away by an adult, and he has earned the rebuke of society.