Bullet seating problem

wpcexpert · April 26, 2008, 12:33 AM

Alright, I am loading for 7mm WSM. I'd been loading Noslers. They do not have a crimp groove, (cannalure?) Well, I decided to try the Hornady SST. They have a crimp groove. I put it in the seater die, that is set up for my Noslers. The problem is, the crimp grove is 1/8th above the top of the case neck.

Question: Does a bullet with a groove "have" to seated to it?

- Nosler's are 140gr, Hornady's are 139gr.
- Cases are trimed to same length.

HOGGHEAD · April 26, 2008, 01:37 AM

No, Tom.

mrawesome22 · April 26, 2008, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Does a bullet with a groove "have" to seated to it?

No.

wpcexpert · April 26, 2008, 02:21 AM

Thanks guys.

HOGGHEAD, where is Rivesville? I'm from Princeton (30 Min South of Beckley)

steve4102 · April 26, 2008, 07:06 AM

No, just make sure the bullet isn't seated to long and jambed into the lands.

Mach II Sailor · April 26, 2008, 07:58 AM

what Steve4102 said, in most ammo i load the bullet has about 1/32 - 1/16 inch "jump" to the rifling.

wpcexpert · April 27, 2008, 01:52 AM

I'm starting over for this rifle. Did more research on the accubond that I had shooting great, not the best idea for whitetail. Great Elk bullet though. Switching to Nos Balistic tip and Horn SST. Going to the range Monday morning. Thanks for the help.

TexasSeaRay · April 27, 2008, 02:05 AM

Wouldn't be a bad idea to double-check some load data from both Nosler and Hornaday.

Recently changed from Hornady SST to the Nosler BT for the .270 and found that the OAL also changed. The two bullets are not the same length.

Good rule of thumb is when you change bullets, you change your seating configuration. I rotate my seater out a ways so that I have to seat the (new) bullet in increments to get at the proper OAL.

Jeff

HOGGHEAD · April 27, 2008, 03:27 AM

Between Morgantown and Fairmont. Tom.

steve4102 · April 27, 2008, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Did more research on the accubond that I had shooting great, not the best idea for whitetail.

I believe you have been misinformed. The Accubond is an excellent Whitetail bullet. Especially at the speeds you will be running in that 7WSM. The Ballistic Tip on the other hand is pretty soft and most likely will explode on impact at 7mmWSM velocities inside of 150-200 yards. Here are the impact velocities of the Nosler line. Anything over 3000fps and your BT will most likely fail.

Partition:
Minimum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 1800 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- N/A

Ballistic Tip:
Minimum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 1600 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 3000 fps

AccuBond:
Minimum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- 1800 fps
Maximum Impact Velocity for Reliable Expansion- N/A

ForneyRider · May 1, 2008, 04:04 PM

I use the Hornady SST and Nosler Ballistic Tips quite a bit.

I don't use the cannelure, except for someone's ammo that will complain about me not using it.

I stretch the OAL out. I really noticed a difference between cannelure-length and setting the OAL way out, ceteris paribus.

wpcexpert · May 1, 2008, 08:29 PM

Steve4102, that was from the Nosler Site? A buddy of mine last year shot a whitetail at approx 175yds. It punched straight thru both shoulders and the deer went 200yds. After field dressing, we found that the wound channel was next to nothing. He was at a show and talked to a Nosler guy. Told him what happened. The Nosler guy told him that the Accubond holds together to well for whitetails. It was designed to go thru an elk shoulder and mess him up, but will punch holes in a whitetail.

So, by the chart, if I'm sending 140gr BT down range at 3250fps, it won't get in the deer and pummel him? What will the bullet do? I don't understand, it can't just vaporize?

steve4102 · May 1, 2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

it can't just vaporize

Vaporize, No, but disintegrate to the point of very little if any penetration, yes.

steve4102 · May 2, 2008, 07:18 AM

Quote:

He was at a show and talked to a Nosler guy. Told him what happened. The Nosler guy told him that the Accubond holds together to well for whitetails. It was designed to go thru an elk shoulder and mess him up, but will punch holes in a whitetail.

Do you happen to know what show and what Nosler guy? If not, could you find out? This comment by "a Nosler guy" goes against everything Nosler says about the performance of their Accubond.

I have used the Accibond in 7mm-08, 30-06, 30-06AI, 300WSM and 9.3x62. I have not had the Accibond fail in well over a dozen kills. The bullet expanded well and in no way "punch holes in whitetails". I have however had the BT fail to penetrate and explode on impact at 30-06 velocities.

You might want to go here and read more about the Accubond.
http://noslerreloading.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8195

wpcexpert · May 2, 2008, 04:39 PM

WOW, don't know what to say. Looks like I'm going to pick'em back up. Thanks for the great info brother.

steve4102 · May 2, 2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

So you had good expansion and wound channel?

Yes, and in some cases the exit wound and meat damage was a bit more than I like. I trust the Accubond to do it's job and do it well. I think your friend was given some bad advise or misunderstood what he was being told.

jimbob86 · May 2, 2008, 05:26 PM

The only time I have had a bullet "vaporize" and fail to penetrate was on a buck about 15 feet away, with a 130 gr Winchester Silvertip, in .270 Winchester. Wound was about the diameter of my fist, and just as deep. right over his heart. The deer went 100 feet, and died (of suprise, probably).

I have since switched to heavier, slower bullets, though still lightly constructed. I'm thinking that the Accubond would be a little tough for whitetails....... it would be a good elk bullet. I would be REALLY leery of shooting a deer with an Accubond if the deer was facing me- it would probably penetrate from one end to the other. I would not want to field dress THAT deer. NOTHING (and I have cleaned out chicken coops with leaky rooofs) stinks like a gutshot ruminant.

It does not take a lot to kill a whitetail. Hell, a 100 grain broadhead on a spindly graphite shaft will do the trick, at 250-300 f/sec.

wpcexpert · May 3, 2008, 11:42 AM

Yes, I know a broadhead will kill one. I'm about 95% Bowhunter actually. Thats amazing that the bullet did that though. WOW. Never seen something like that.

ginshun · May 3, 2008, 12:06 PM

I shot a whitetail last fall with Nos. Ballistic tip out of my .257 Watherby. Range was about 60 yards, so impact velocity had to be around 3100fps+ (my reloads are lighter than the fatory ammo).

Bullet did penetrate fine, the shot was through the neck though, so it didn't really have a lot of obsticals. Exit wound was maybe half dollar size so it did expand. Deer never took a single step. Flopped right on her back.

I wan't aware of those velocity limits, I may have to rethink the bullet I am using for the .257.

April 26, 2008, 12:33 AM	#1
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	Bullet seating problem Alright, I am loading for 7mm WSM. I'd been loading Noslers. They do not have a crimp groove, (cannalure?) Well, I decided to try the Hornady SST. They have a crimp groove. I put it in the seater die, that is set up for my Noslers. The problem is, the crimp grove is 1/8th above the top of the case neck. Question: Does a bullet with a groove "have" to seated to it? - Nosler's are 140gr, Hornady's are 139gr. - Cases are trimed to same length. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

April 26, 2008, 01:37 AM	#2
HOGGHEAD Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2008 Location: Rivesville, WV Posts: 637	Answer No, Tom.

April 26, 2008, 02:21 AM	#4
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	Thanks guys. HOGGHEAD, where is Rivesville? I'm from Princeton (30 Min South of Beckley) __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

April 27, 2008, 01:52 AM	#7
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	I'm starting over for this rifle. Did more research on the accubond that I had shooting great, not the best idea for whitetail. Great Elk bullet though. Switching to Nos Balistic tip and Horn SST. Going to the range Monday morning. Thanks for the help. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

April 27, 2008, 02:05 AM	#8
TexasSeaRay Senior Member Join Date: November 19, 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 810	Wouldn't be a bad idea to double-check some load data from both Nosler and Hornaday. Recently changed from Hornady SST to the Nosler BT for the .270 and found that the OAL also changed. The two bullets are not the same length. Good rule of thumb is when you change bullets, you change your seating configuration. I rotate my seater out a ways so that I have to seat the (new) bullet in increments to get at the proper OAL. Jeff __________________ If every single gun owner belonged to the NRA as well as their respective state rifle/gun association, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today. So to those of you who are members of neither, thanks for nothing.

April 26, 2008, 07:06 AM	#5
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,955	No, just make sure the bullet isn't seated to long and jambed into the lands.

April 26, 2008, 07:58 AM	#6
Mach II Sailor Junior member Join Date: March 22, 2007 Posts: 480	what Steve4102 said, in most ammo i load the bullet has about 1/32 - 1/16 inch "jump" to the rifling.

April 27, 2008, 03:27 AM	#9
HOGGHEAD Senior Member Join Date: April 2, 2008 Location: Rivesville, WV Posts: 637	Rivesville Between Morgantown and Fairmont. Tom.

May 1, 2008, 04:04 PM	#11
ForneyRider Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2007 Location: Forney, TX Posts: 725	I use the Hornady SST and Nosler Ballistic Tips quite a bit. I don't use the cannelure, except for someone's ammo that will complain about me not using it. I stretch the OAL out. I really noticed a difference between cannelure-length and setting the OAL way out, ceteris paribus. __________________ When all is said and done, there is a lot more said than done.

May 1, 2008, 08:29 PM	#12
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	Steve4102, that was from the Nosler Site? A buddy of mine last year shot a whitetail at approx 175yds. It punched straight thru both shoulders and the deer went 200yds. After field dressing, we found that the wound channel was next to nothing. He was at a show and talked to a Nosler guy. Told him what happened. The Nosler guy told him that the Accubond holds together to well for whitetails. It was designed to go thru an elk shoulder and mess him up, but will punch holes in a whitetail. So, by the chart, if I'm sending 140gr BT down range at 3250fps, it won't get in the deer and pummel him? What will the bullet do? I don't understand, it can't just vaporize? __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

May 2, 2008, 04:39 PM	#15
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	WOW, don't know what to say. Looks like I'm going to pick'em back up. Thanks for the great info brother. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

May 2, 2008, 05:26 PM	#17
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	The only time I have had a bullet "vaporize" and fail to penetrate was on a buck about 15 feet away, with a 130 gr Winchester Silvertip, in .270 Winchester. Wound was about the diameter of my fist, and just as deep. right over his heart. The deer went 100 feet, and died (of suprise, probably). I have since switched to heavier, slower bullets, though still lightly constructed. I'm thinking that the Accubond would be a little tough for whitetails....... it would be a good elk bullet. I would be REALLY leery of shooting a deer with an Accubond if the deer was facing me- it would probably penetrate from one end to the other. I would not want to field dress THAT deer. NOTHING (and I have cleaned out chicken coops with leaky rooofs) stinks like a gutshot ruminant. It does not take a lot to kill a whitetail. Hell, a 100 grain broadhead on a spindly graphite shaft will do the trick, at 250-300 f/sec.

May 3, 2008, 11:42 AM	#18
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	Yes, I know a broadhead will kill one. I'm about 95% Bowhunter actually. Thats amazing that the bullet did that though. WOW. Never seen something like that. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

May 3, 2008, 12:06 PM	#19
ginshun Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2008 Posts: 162	I shot a whitetail last fall with Nos. Ballistic tip out of my .257 Watherby. Range was about 60 yards, so impact velocity had to be around 3100fps+ (my reloads are lighter than the fatory ammo). Bullet did penetrate fine, the shot was through the neck though, so it didn't really have a lot of obsticals. Exit wound was maybe half dollar size so it did expand. Deer never took a single step. Flopped right on her back. I wan't aware of those velocity limits, I may have to rethink the bullet I am using for the .257.