Thoughts on a few bull pup rifles

[Gbnk82]

So for some reason I have a nagging sensation telling me I want a bull pup.i know and understand the general consensus on them. awkward reloads pain for offhand or left handed shooters and can be very dangerous if you encounter a double charge or squib because of the actions location..anyway even with all this I still have a bug for one..I love the concept of the ps90 a lot but I'm not a fan of the ammo.if they made that same design chambered in 9mm I'd definetly own one..anyway out of all the popular bull pups out there (ps90 Aug msar tavor rfb fn200)what is the general consensus on the best design in terms of function reliability and overall use..also what role do you see a bull pup filling??would this be used a home defense because of its compact size or a competitive rifle.or is this simply no more than something that is just for cool factor and make people go oooo and awww at the range when they see you shooting it

[skizzums]

its basically a way of having the dimensions of an SBR w/o the paperwork. I did an SKS bullpup and was amazed at how it changed the gun for the better. mid-line recoil, perfect balance, faster mag changes, faster re-acquisition and able to move in tight spaces. it shortened my gun by 12". I loved having the sight right in front of your eye while comfortably holding it. and this was coming from a conversion of a 1940s gun, so I could only imagine how a purpose built bullpup would feel.

and the growing trend in heavy long range rifle is bullpups for easier carry and concealability.

go to the range an try out a tavor if your on the fence

and of course you cant deny that they look pretty cool too

there haven't been enough to really judge who makes the most reliable design, but I assume the AUG is pretty refined by now

[Gbnk82]

I thought about trying the sks conversion before I sold mine but the mixture of the stock cost and finicky aftermarket mags I decided if a really needed one I would invest in a good proven design,I figure between stock and gun cost I'm about 600-800 in I would probably be better off in eating in a dedicated design.I am looking for a range in my area right now that rents rifles..my only two local ranges that rent are pistol caliber only..if I find one id like to try the aug for sure I love the looks of it and if I am not mistaken I believe they accept ar15 mags???if so that would be nice as it would be able to share mags with my colt..I definetly want to try out the ps90 to even though I would probably never own it because of its caliber there is just something about that gun that I'm drawn to..

[tahunua001]

there is no general consensus.
the tavor has gained the most steam the most quickly because it is a reliable design and is about the cheapest option out there. I personally prefer the FS2000, although the first thing I would drop money on would be fresh optics, the stock iron sights suck horribly.

[Gbnk82]

I was curious about the sights on them it seems like they would be the compromise on most bullpup designs because you lose alot of sight radius on them so it would almost seem like optics would be a must on any of them for any kind of accurate shooting past short ranges

[tahunua001]

that is likely the case. I have yet to hold a tavor in my arms and all of the AUGs and other bullpups had optics on them already. the FS2000 was the only one I shot that actually had irons.

[Microgunner]

I own a FN FS2000. It's been reliable and accurate.
It shoots the same for right or left handers.
The forestock and sights need changing and then it's good to go.
My biggest complaint is it's hard to pick up. It has very few places you can just grab it, unlike the M4.

[Gbnk82]

It does look like it would take some adjusting to those grips and I never though of the fact of picking one up of a table or from the safe but that makes sense it would probably always take two hands to get it up off a flat service where as my ar I can reach in the safe one handed and grab it at about 5 different pointswhile using my other hand for something else.I think that's probably where the tavor and aug would have a advantage with there pistol grips over the space gun style grips on the fs200 and ps90

[ttarp]

My brother owns a Tavor which I've been able to shoot a bit, and I recently acquired an AUG myself. I really do wonder at times why more people don't try them.
My brothers a cheapskate (still amazed he spent that much money on the rifle) so he doesn't have an optic for the Tavor, but it has integrated flip up iron sights, and they're ok. I've got a thing for irons sights though, so I put some HK 416 sights on my AUG.
The AUG comes in two different styles of stock, one that accepts AR magazines called the NATO stock, and the other design which only takes Steyr magazines, I bought the latter.
I personally find the AUG more natural and comfortable to aim and shoot, but in my opinion the Tavor has better ergonomics, the controls are just easier to manipulate on the Tavor.
Both are pretty easy to disassemble but I prefer the AUG when it comes to take down and cleaning.
You hear about the Tavor's trigger being heavy from time to time, my brother and I removed the extra spring and it lightened the trigger considerably. We haven't had any light strikes or any issues with reliability after the removal.
In conclusion, bullpups probably aren't going to be a solid choice for bench rest target competitions, but otherwise they should fill any role that a standard rifle would without any problems. Git you one!

[Mobuck]

I have no desire to tolerate the noise and blast so close to my face nor the normally abysmal trigger action of the bullpup design.

[Gbnk82]

Yes the trigger seems to be a huge complaint on the bull pup conversions but I haven't heard a whole lot of bad about the dedicated designs..but the blast from the action being next to your face is my biggest concern also.it would be devastating to you if you had a double charge or squib in your rifle that caused a catostrophic failure..

[ttarp]

If you aren't comfortable with the design because of possible kabooms thats wholly up to you, nothing wrong with that. For myself when I pick up any rifle it never even occurs to me that it might explode, yes I realize its possible if I sit back and think about it, but it isn't in the forefront of my mind. If it was a serious enough concern to me personally that I wouldn't shoot bullpups, I probably wouldn't shoot standard rifles either. Just my take on the matter. The best thing to do of course would be to rent a bullpup if you could find a range that had one and see how you like it.

[Gbnk82]

It is not something I generally think of but it is one of the first things that came to my mind the first time I saw a bullpup being shot a few years back..I think I'm going to try and get ahold of both a tavor and ps90 to shoot and see which I like more..my general thought is I will love the ps90 but hate the 5.7 ammo but then again after shooting it it may be enough to convince me to get over that hatred..as for the tavor my friends buddy owns one I'm going to try and get ahold of him and see about going shooting to try It out

[barnbwt]

"it would be devastating to you if you had a double charge or squib in your rifle that caused a catostrophic failure."
Not necessarily, at all. All depends how the gun was designed. A well designed bullpup is no more likely to spit shrapnel at your face than any other modern design is to throw a bolt through your eye. Bullpupping an open-topped SKS not intended for the role that's also a design prone to slam-firing? Yeah, that's stupid. An RFB with a 1/8" or so steel plate under the cheek pad? No worries, brother . Now, I do think the "blast" associated with a DI system would likely be intolerable in a bullpup, but obviously piston designs negate a lot of that for a shortened platform, thus they are used.

I worry far more about idiots at the range, and the car trip to the range (complete with its own idiots)

My personal fav, though I've never even seen one in person, is the AUG, since it's the only design I've seen that doesn't look 'chunky,' which is the main turnoff I've gotten from RFBs, PS90s, FS2000s (big time), and Tavor's. The AUG looks quite a bit more slender than those, so I feel I'd like it more (kinda hard to come by, though )

TCB

[Gbnk82]

Yeah I love the design of the Aug a lot.i saw one for sale at a gun a few months ago but is was 2500 way to high for me..I also love the fact you can get ones that take standard ar mags a lot of options for that..but it's really the price on the aug that kills it for me

[Tucker 1371]

I lean towards the AUG but I'd have to buy a whole nother bolt for left handed shooting. I've played with the Tavor and like it a lot, it's just uglier than sin.

That said I really have no room to speak on aesthetics, I just put my M1A in a bullpup Juggernaut Rogue stock, it looks "cool" but not pretty.

[Microgunner]

My FS2000 with Monolith forestock, Redfield dot and Magpul sights.

[Gbnk82]

^that is nice I love the foreground option on it seems like it would be hard to get a good hold without it..definitely a cool gun

[barnbwt]

Woah, Microgunner, for a second I thought that was a mini-14 stock conversion or something; looks totally like a PS90, now . The FS2000 is slightly more palatable to me, now.

TCB

[Gbnk82]

Does the fs2000 accept ar15 mags or do you have to get mags specially made for it???just curious

[Microgunner]

It uses standard AR aluminum magazines, 30 rounds and larger. 20 round magazine won't protude far enough below the stock to remove them.
To use plastic AR mags you must remove the rubber dirt gasket in the mag well which is molded to the contours of the aluminum mags.

[chadio]

- the engineering is amazingly innovative
- mag changes are a bit cumbersome, but hey .. it holds 50
- Mag loading is easy once you do it a few times, the rounds go into place like butter
- the trigger creep is very creepy
- the portability and size are undeniably handy, think ATV, mtn bike, backpack, etc.
- ammo is spendy
- it is the runaway crowd pleaser "Hey, can I try that? Can I just hold it?" "Can I get a picture??"
- I am not going to war with it, combat effectiveness is a non-issue with me
- that being said, I would hate to get hit by a 5.7
- I am not hunting with it, just plink and targets for now
- LOP is same as where I set my AR stock so it sits right with me when shouldered
- recoil is like a BB gun
- plink and target shooting enjoyment is off the charts

I am a firm believer that reloading the 5.7x28 is a bad idea. The way the shoulder is formed during the factory loading process, and de-formed during the firing process, it is critical in the timing of the blowback operation... and I highly recommend against reloading 5.7

A quote from me, regarding the PS90. FWIW

[HKFan9]

I would go with the Tavor hands down. I liked the Aug but the Tavor seems better designed, the mag release and bolt release are a big selling point.

The only complaint I have with the Tavors is the iron sights built in just plain suck, definitely get an optic for it.

[EMB135Driver]

I compared and contrasted the different bullpups and ended up with the Tavor.....hold it and it becomes clear they took the best options of the other and expanded on them. It seems like it would feel heavy when you first pick it up, but once shouldered you barely notice it's bulk (I've fired several magazines 1 handed and you don't even notice the bulk then)

Shopping for a new weapon is half the fun......enjoy

[spyderdude]

I recently became the owner of an IWI Tavor and had the chance to put exactly 300 rounds through it yesterday. I was shooting at 25 yards using an Aimpoint Micro H1 red dot which had me shooting low on paper. I'll need to sight it in next time I take it out. The initial range trip was simply a function test.

The biggest selling point on the Tavor for me was the fact it can accept most standard AR-15 magazines. I found my particular one does not like Lancer magazines. It will have double feeds every so often with those mags and sometimes cause the un-fired rounds to get crimped just under where the casing begins to bottleneck. I used BCM aluminum and Magpul PMAGs throughout the range session and they performed well in the gun. I was using several different brands of ammo and mostly performed flawlessly except when using the Lancer mags, no fault of the gun nor the ammo.

I'd say the biggest downsides to this rifle is the availability of replacement parts and the price. At least with the AR-15 you can easily get pretty much anything needed to get your gun back into action if something breaks. With the Tavor, you'd have to send it back to IWI for repairs. Time will tell on how well the Tavor does on the market and availability of parts. Some companies already make aftermarket trigger packs and replacement handguards for the Tavor rifle. I think that is more than can be said for other bullpups.

I'll need to do some more testing with the Tavor before I can truly say whether I like or dislike it overall. I think it should be priced closer to $1,500.00 though.