.327 Federal Club thread

[Don Glock]

.327 federal magnum is the GAP of the revolver world.

[Crankylove]

.327 federal magnum is the GAP of the revolver world.

Care to elaborate a little on why you believe that?

While the .45 G.A.P. doesn't really add any performance over the standard .45 Auto, the .327 Federal does give a substantial increase in energy and velocity over its predecessors...........so I am not really understanding your comparison.

[Sevens]

It's not actually a comparison... it's a drive-by post. It's worthless to the thread. The .45 GAP was a new round that copied an old one to similar performance and then was marketed to law enforcement. The .327 Federal is nothing whatsoever like the .45 GAP other than the fact that the poster doesn't seem to care for it. (which doesn't matter)

While the brass issue certainly is an issue and I wouldn't try to pass it off as nothing, you can still get brass from factory ammo. And given the fact that we are talking a revolver and not a semi-auto that roughly handles brass and throws it in to the weeds, you can make... say, 3 or four boxes of factory ammo/brass last a good long time.

The brass will wear like any other, but less than heavier revolver rounds because it's obviously much less prone to bullet creep and crimp-jumping. The revolvers are heavier, the slugs are lighter. So you needn't put the crimp of death on these rounds.

Less need for ultra-heavy crimp means longer life from the brass.

My point is... the brass issue is a problem, but honestly, unless you happen to know someone that has a stash of .32 H&R brass (or you have such a stash), you are in the same boat either way. Is Starline shipping .32 H&R again? Some folks have been waiting for a long time for that stuff... factory .32 H&R ammo costs as much as .327 Federal.

Finding factory .327 Federal ammo isn't half as tough as the nay-sayers (who don't actually own one or buy any) continue to say that it is.

[salvadore]

With a little bit of luck, you lovers of the .327 will see something interesting shortly

If I can read between the Wild and the Alaska, I'll go out on a limb and say "levergun".

This is exciting, Marlin could make a 22" barreled 94 with a half magazine and call it a 327CL....oh, wait a minute.......

[Hammer It]

Quote:
With a little bit of luck, you lovers of the .327 will see something interesting shortly

If I can read between the Wild and the Alaska, I'll go out on a limb and say "levergun".

This is exciting, Marlin could make a 22" barreled 94 with a half magazine and call it a 327CL....oh, wait a minute.......

Hello
I would be Really Surprised to see Marlin come out with a Lever action rifle chambered in Federal .327 Magnum. The Much Higher Cartridge Pressure of the Federal .327 Magnum alone is a deterent to making such an action. Some say they intend on stretching out the throats of the previously made Marlin lever actions that came chambered in .32 H&R Magnum... To those I say Good luck, you may very well need a Right Cheek replacement if this is tried and fired... The action's of those guns were Intended for a much weaker cartridge compared to the Federal .327 Magnum I feel all that would be accomplished with that is ruining a very good gun by trying a cartridge conversion on that gun...Hammer It

[salvadore]

That was kinda a joke hammer it...well not much of one evidently. Here's the deal, I own a 32/20 Marlin 94cl and I load it up to around 2000fps maybe 1800 or 1900, I really need to get me a chronograph, with 100gr. jacketed and around 1800 with cast 115gr. The first ten shot group @ 100yds with the cast load went into 2.25" with eight of them in 1.25", making a point about reinventing the wheel you see.

I didn't realize the 327 produced greater pressures than say the 44mag or 357mag. I worked up my loads from some Paco Kelly stuff on the internet and I'm pretty sure I'm not ruining my Marlin.

Oh yeah, and since I'm a lefty I'm thinkin my right cheek is safe, and thanks for the higher pressure info.

[Hammer It]

didn't realize the 327 produced greater pressures than say the 44mag or 357mag. I worked up my loads from some Paco Kelly stuff on the internet and I'm pretty sure I'm not ruining my Marlin.

Oh yeah, and since I'm a lefty I'm thinkin my right cheek is safe, and thanks for the higher pressure info.

Hello Salvadore
From what I have read the Federal .327 Magnum SAMI Pressure is about 45,000 which is almost twice that of the .32 H&R Magnum pressures which in essence are higher than the 32-20 round. Compared to the Remington .44 Magnum which has 36,000 the Federal .327 is much higher...I hope this helps, Hammer It

[Crosshair]

the brass issue is a problem, but honestly, unless you happen to know someone that has a stash of .32 H&R brass (or you have such a stash), you are in the same boat either way.

Stay away from my stash!

I would be Really Surprised to see Marlin come out with a Lever action rifle chambered in Federal .327 Magnum. The Much Higher Cartridge Pressure of the Federal .327 Magnum alone is a deterent to making such an action.

I disagree. Cartridge pressure is just one aspect that one needs to know when figuring how realistic it would be to chamber a cartridge in a gun. The max chamber pressure and the casehead area. What limits an action is not the max chamber pressure, but the amount of thrust put onto the bolt/action of the gun. That is a function of chamber pressure AND casehead area. That's why you can buy a Contender in .223, but not .308 even though the two are loaded to similar pressures.

44 mag

Base diameter .457 in
Maximum pressure 36,000 psi
Theoretical max bolt thrust at max pressure 16,452 psi

327 Federal

Base diameter .337 in
Maximum pressure 45,000 psi
Theoretical max bolt thrust at max pressure 15,165 psi

So a Marlin action should be easily capable of handling the pressure of a .327 Federal

[salvadore]

That was kind of my point hammer it, since the 327 has less case capacity than the 32/20 and since the 94 can handle 36,000 CUP with a bigger case head the 32/20 might approach 327 velocity without the higher pressures. I believe my cast bullet loads are around 30,000 CUP or less, certainly less than the 36,000 CUP of the 44 mag. Anyway, there are plenty of shooters out there that function without a problem at the higher pressures. I may not push a police positive beyond saami pressures, but my OP is another matter, and the new SAA would work fine too.

[secret_agent_man]

My guess is the "news" will be Ruger is discontinuing production of the 327 MAG. Cylinder cracking problems and a lack of buyer interest. The round's apparent unsuitability for use in 1-7/8" barreled guns may have doomed it from the start.

[FrankenMauser]

My guess is the "news" will be Ruger is discontinuing production of the 327 MAG. Cylinder cracking problems and a lack of buyer interest.

Care to explain?

I have heard zero reports of cylinders cracking, other than a "crack" that turned out to be an over-charged case fired after a squib (about 2 years ago, I think). The only factory cylinder issues I know of were the early problems with the finish on SP101 cylinders. It was rough machining, that caused a cosmetic issue and an extraction issue - not a safety issue.

And, I really don't understand all these claims of lack of interest and lack of availability. I'm not joking, when I say the .327 revolvers are flying off the shelves in my area, and I can't walk into a local shop without seeing a decent stock of .327 ammo (which is now cheaper than most .357 and .38 ammo). ...And this is a state where the .327 is viewed as an under-powered, puny, worthless cartridge, that most people wouldn't even hunt rabbits with.

[Don Glock]

While the .45 G.A.P. doesn't really add any performance over the standard .45 Auto, the .327 Federal does give a substantial increase in energy and velocity over its predecessors...........so I am not really understanding your comparison.

It's not actually a comparison... it's a drive-by post. It's worthless to the thread.

my post seems to have incurred the wrath of the several 327magnum owners in the country

[BillCA]

The .327 Federal Magnum is a hot little pill. Think of it as a .32-20 on steroids or a .32-40 for revolvers.

According to Ruger/Federal, the idea was to jam a 6th shot into the SP-101 sized frame using a cartridge that produced near-.357 magnum performance from a short barrel. And they did it.

An 85 or 115 grain bullet at 1330 fps from a 3-inch requires some swift powder and high pressures. The 100gr JSP runs 1400 fps. This puts the skinny "little girl's .32" round squarely on a par with the 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP in terms of energy. See the chart below.

Given the 1300-1400 fps range, JHP ammo should perform exceedingly well, even if they're not Gold Dots or XTP designs. And remember, these figures are from a three-inch barrel! Put this cartridge into a 4-6" barrel and you have a serious amount of power. A six-inch barrel adds between 25%-30% to the muzzle velocity (e.g. 1675 fps and 1808 fps)¹

Market failure? Not yet.
The slow start for the .327 Federal is probably due, in part, to the events surrounding its debut. We had a huge spike in demand for arms & ammo around November 2008. Plus the military's voracious appetite for ammo kept ATK/Federal busy producing 5.56/7.62/.50 and 9mm ammo 24/7, consuming a lot of material that could have gone into other products.

No doubt the lack of brass for reloading has hurt the cartridge's acceptance. And availability too. I discount people who want a cartridge "Wal*Mart ready" before they'll accept it. Sorry, but that's a self-propagating fallacy to use that logic on a "new" cartridge.

The nay-sayers and most critics have never looked at the ballistics seriously, nor fired the cartridge. In terms of "paper ballistics" it would seem to be a winner. In terms of small game hunting, it seems well suited for the job. The lack of self-defense shootings leaves open the question of its effectiveness in that role although I'd expect it to do at least as well as the 9mm.

Some ask what the .327 does better than more established loads like the .357 Magnum. First, compactness. It's smaller size means +1 or 2 shots in a similar frame revolver. Second, within its limits it performs as well out of a shorter barrel as low to mid-range .357 loads in 4-6 inch barrels. And while the .32 H&R Magnum isn't a barn burner, it's equivilant to the .38 Special in a "step down" in power. This means there is a defensive revolver for those who dislike the violence of the .357 magnum in small guns and those for whom the 9mm (or semi's in general) are not an option.

Perfect gun?
This is when I wish Colt still made wheelguns. A Colt Detective Special or Police Positive Special (Colt's "D" frame) would make a perfect home for a .327 based platform (provided it was structurally sound enough). So would a Scandium K-Frame make a good home defense gun with a 3" or 5" barrel. For hunting, any of the Ruger SA's would make a nice home as 6, 7, or 8-shooters with five-inch or longer barrels.



¹ Per Ballistics by the Inch published results

[Colorado Redneck]

Looks like Midway has it in stock. I have not ordered any, but was looking last evening before the previous post.

Thanks for the responses...and Frankenmauser, you nailed down what I wanted. Just wondering if the 32 H&R case was loaded to max loads,would that work ok in the pistol chambered for 327 FedMag. I understand the case capacity issue, and know that there is a limit on how hot a round should be created. In fact, since the "new" has worn off in this handloading game, the 357's and 270 rounds I load are fairly mild. Making a bigger bang and stressing your gun for marginal gains is a waste, IMHO. A good midrange round that is accurate and consistent makes way more sense to me.

That Buffalo Bore loading looks pretty good for SD, and H&R Mag hand loads would make for great practice rounds.

The SP101 is getting more tempting.

[Crankylove]

The SP101 is getting more tempting.

I was holding out for the Blackhawk when I found my SP101 in .327, and since the Blackhawk's and SP101's were selling as soon as they hit the stores in my area, I snatched up the SP101 while I had the chance, and have had no regrets.

Frankenmauser's Blackhawk (his wife's actually) does have better sights and a bit more accuracy, as well as a bit less recoil, but I really like the size and the loading/unloading is a bit quicker and easier with the SP101 than my .41 Mag Blackhawk.

[mellow_c]

I hope that just because of this thread and the 265+ replies and 9,700+ views the .327 mag will take off and become an established American cartridge

[JRussell]

I like the .327 because it reminds me of the classic chevy engine. Seriously though, it's one of those deals like when you hear the ammo is very hard to find, or very expensive, or that it's best to be a reloader if you want to buy one...well, that just scares some people off. It has nothing to do with the merits of the gun...just the practical considerations.

Another problem is that when there are so many great choices out there already, you do ask yourself "now what niche does this fill?" Because of cost and convenience and consistency, I've limited myself to three calibers: .22lr, 9mm and .38 Special. I know there are other great calibers out there, and I'm sure the .327 is one of them. Heck I'd like to have one, but if I didn't watch myself, I'd have one of everything

[Hammer It]

That was kind of my point hammer it, since the 327 has less case capacity than the 32/20 and since the 94 can handle 36,000 CUP with a bigger case head the 32/20 might approach 327 velocity without the higher pressures. I believe my cast bullet loads are around 30,000 CUP or less, certainly less than the 36,000 CUP of the 44 mag. Anyway, there are plenty of shooters out there that function without a problem at the higher pressures. I may not push a police positive beyond saami pressures, but my OP is another matter, and the new SAA would work fine too.

Hello Salvatore
I would warn you to do your Homework Well, before experimenting here with the Federal .327 Magnum cartridge as it's pressures are into the Rifle Pressure class. The standard SAMI pressure for the Federal .327 Magnum is 45,000 CUP. Compared to the much weaker .32 H&R Magnum which is 21,000 CUP and the .32-20 Cartridge being 28,000 in safe modern weapons, none of the aforementioned begin to compare to the Federal .327 Magnum and extreme caution should be considered attempting to convert guns chambered in .32-20 or the .32 H&R Magnum. Having this S&W Model 16-4 chambered in .32 H&R Magnum before I had it converted to the chambering it's now Federal .327 Magnum cartridge I Completely Exhausted the Higher Maximum limits of the .32 H&R Magnum Load by hand loading for it. I took the round to the Point of compressed loads and even got it so warm it started to crater and blow the primers only showing me Maximum velocities of 1470 FPS using a Hornady 85 Grain XTP Bullet. It is very, very doubtful that anyone could exceed the velocities of the .32 H&R Magnum Loaded the way that I had it, in a 32-20 Case due to their construction of the Bottle neck, I surmise case failure of cracking or rupturing would be the end result, and perhaps bursting a guns cylinder would be the Much worse scenario.








In having my Gun chambered into the Federal .327 Magnum cartridge it was safe to do as the cylinder has Plenty of Meat between the chambers to accomplish it and can take the Much higher Pressure of the Federal .327 Magnum due to the larger Medium K-Frame sized frame. Hamilton Bowen will Not convert any existing J-Frame S&Ws chambered in .32 H&R Magnum simply because they will not take the much higher pressures and survive. I have heard that Most S&W hand guns are Tested to double the SAMI Pressure of the round they are intended for, and if there is any truth in this that would only Place a SAMI Higher pressure limit of 42,000 CUP on guns intended for the .32 H&R Magnum round, being Border line on maximum pressure of those guns. I feel any less than a K-Frame sized hand gun having it converted to the Federal .327 Magnum would be Flirting with Disaster and also feel that is the very same Reason we have Not seen Marlin come out with the Federal .327 Magnum in a Lever gun Offering.... Hammer It

[secret_agent_man]

In the beginning there were some cylinder cracking problems with the Ruger 327 due to metallurgy. Well documented on the Ruger forums. Maybe Ruger worked through it. There is tremendous pressure on a small gun with the 327 MAG. I'm thinking now the surprise alluded to by wildalaska may be a Smith Night Guard aluminum/scandium gun chambered in 327MAG to lighten up on the Model 60 steel offering.

[airspires]

I spoke with representatives of Taurus and Charter Arms. The Taurus customer service representative told me that Taurus discontinued the M327. The Charter Arms marketing director told me they discontinued the Patriot, and he expected that other manufacturers would be discontinuing their .327 Fed Mag revolvers because the operating pressure is too high. I wish the .327 Fed Mag had been specified with max pressure at about 35k psi, rather than 45k.

[FrankenMauser]

I spoke with representatives of Taurus and Charter Arms. The Taurus customer service representative told me that Taurus discontinued the M327. The Charter Arms marketing director told me they discontinued the Patriot, and he expected that other manufacturers would be discontinuing their .327 Fed Mag revolvers because the operating pressure is too high. I wish the .327 Fed Mag had been specified with max pressure at about 35k psi, rather than 45k.

Even if that's true... It's the fault of the idiot companies that didn't understand the strength of the materials they were using for the product they were selling. Really makes you wonder how well they engineer any of their products, doesn't it?

Modern technology and metallurgy can handle the .327 Federal, at an affordable price. It's when manufacturers start cutting corners and using inferior materials (to line their own pockets), that problems occur.

[zfk55]

Nope. Not true at all. I just got off the line with (not customer service) the armourer's techs with both companies and was told that for Taurus, the demand was so dismal that the decision to cut production was made by the sales CEO. Absolutely NOT a pressure to revolver concern.

Charter arms techs told me the decision was made after enough customers complained about the recoil of the Patriot. The .327 simply was too powerful for the lightweight Charter Arms revolver as currently made.

Neither had any concerns whatsoever about the .327 pressures as related to the revolvers.

[jimbob86]

Nope. Not true at all. I just got off the line with (not customer service) the armourer's techs with both companies and was told that for Taurus, the demand was so dismal that the decision to cut production was made by the sales CEO. Absolutely NOT a pressure to revolver concern.

After Taurus' Judge marketing campaign, and reading so many of the Taurus quality issue nightmare stories ..... if someone connected to Taurus told me it was going to rain, I'd check their fly.

I STILL want an sp101 in .327.

I'll just have to want for awhile ..... it's not at the top of the list.

[zfk55]

You're going to love the SP101 .327. Far less muzzle flip and recoil than the Taurus.
Its hard to amagine any R&D with any firearms manufacturer that hasn't done extensive metallurgical cross testing before going into production. They wouldn't last beyond the first lawsuit.

Latigo

[airspires]

I suspect that the high pressure means cylinders need to be extra smooth for good extraction. For lower end guns this might raise the manufacturing cost (or rework cost) beyond their market segment objectives.

The Taurus rep did not give me a reason for discontinuing the M327, so I appreciate the info on that. I'm seriously considering buying one as a local shop still has some new ones in stock, and a pistol range on site, so I can immediately check the extraction issue after purchase.