The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: General Handgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 7, 2012, 03:38 PM   #1
simonrichter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2011
Location: Austria
Posts: 757
.22lr FMJ ammo

Ever since I've been interested in firearms (which is more or less ever since I can remember ) I wondered why there is no FMJ ammo for .22lr.

I mean .22lr is by far the most versatile round, it comes in a wide range of different loads from subsonic to hyper-velocity, with many different bullets including shot-shells and even tracers, but there is no simple FMJ (apart from the few they seem to have produced for the High Standard HDM during and after WWII in order to accord to the Hague convention).

I'm well aware that there is no obvious need for such a bullet, still it's interesting there isn't even a single manufacturer offering one.

Seems others had this thoughts, too, but I guess that's more of an internet hoax:
http://i2.guns.ru/forums/icons/forum...87/3987195.jpg
__________________
"Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski
. ISSC PAR .223
simonrichter is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 03:42 PM   #2
CERBERUS
Member
 
Join Date: November 4, 2004
Posts: 50
There is really no need for a copper jack .22LR and I am not sure what kind of performance you would get out of it since even the fastest .22 rounds are pretty slow compared to center fire .22 rounds.

For me, the idea of a .22 is to be cheap fun and small critter extermination, neither of which need a copper jacket.

Last edited by CERBERUS; December 7, 2012 at 05:03 PM.
CERBERUS is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 04:14 PM   #3
aarondhgraham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 1, 2009
Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma
Posts: 8,638
There is copper washed .22 ammunition,,,

There is copper washed .22 ammunition,,,
Which I suppose one could say is very thin FMJ.

Aarond

.
__________________
Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat.
Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once.
Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it?
Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)
aarondhgraham is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 04:42 PM   #4
beex215
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 10, 2010
Posts: 317
lets just say that if it were to be fmj, it wouldnt be as cheap. no one wants to pay more for anything. but i do get what your saying.
__________________
my youtube channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/beehasagun1?feature=mhee
beex215 is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 05:01 PM   #5
wogpotter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2004
Posts: 4,811
Because in a nutshell they are incompatible & unneeded.

Jackets are for high velocity high pressure applications & the .22 RF is a low pressure low velocity round.
__________________
Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”?

Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”
wogpotter is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 05:24 PM   #6
Gary L. Griffiths
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2000
Location: AZ, WA
Posts: 1,466
Also the .22LR uses a heeled bullet. It would be difficult and expensive to make a heeled FMJ bullet.
__________________
Violence is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and valorous feeling which believes that nothing is worth violence is much worse. Those who have nothing for which they are willing to fight; nothing they care about more than their own craven apathy; are miserable creatures who have no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the valor of those better than themselves. Gary L. Griffiths (Paraphrasing John Stuart Mill)
Gary L. Griffiths is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 05:36 PM   #7
SDC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2001
Location: People's Republic of Kanada
Posts: 1,652
There HAVE been 22 LR FMJs made (the US Air Force specified a need for these for the "bail-out" 22 LR guns that were issued to Air Force crew and pilots at one time, due to the Hague Convention requirement for non-expanding bullets), but they were expensive and so rarely used that they were dropped after the 22 Hornet was adopted for the same purpose.

__________________
Gun control in Canada: making the streets safer for rapists, muggers, and other violent criminals since 1936.
SDC is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 06:03 PM   #8
RJay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,936
During WW II the U.S. Army also had FMJ .22 Long Rifle ammo made in lots if 10,000 Rd's. each. In normal usage there is no use for anything but lead in .22 rim fire. Good grief, FMJ.22s would be 50 dollars a box. I would believe that you kill can a zombie just as well with a lead bullet than with a FMJ.
__________________
Ron James

Last edited by RJay; December 7, 2012 at 06:46 PM.
RJay is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 06:41 PM   #9
Old Grump
Member in memoriam
 
Join Date: April 9, 2009
Location: Blue River Wisconsin, in
Posts: 3,144
I have a box of Federal high velocity solid copper bullets that would meet your criteria. I don't know how they shoot because the box hasn't been opened yet but they are 40 gr bullets so I doubt if I will see much difference. Got them in a big bunch of 22 ammo when somebody sold out his 22 supply and they were in there with a bunch of other oddball rounds I never saw before.
__________________
Good intentions will always be pleaded for any assumption of power. The Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern will, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters.
--Daniel Webster--
Old Grump is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 07:01 PM   #10
simonrichter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2011
Location: Austria
Posts: 757
Thanks for the great contributions so far, of course I agree with everything said above.

Eventually, one issue where a FMJ would make sense occured to me, namely lead free ammo which might be important in the light of environmental awareness... Just a thought, though...
__________________
"Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski
. ISSC PAR .223
simonrichter is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 09:05 PM   #11
igousigloo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 22, 2011
Location: central Ohio
Posts: 135
Solid point or hollow point are about your only choice.
igousigloo is offline  
Old December 7, 2012, 10:46 PM   #12
9mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
Because 22 isn't a caliber military/leo uses, no one counts it as self defence, more of a trainning round. Why would there be a need for it? It's a small, cheap round, made for lots of trainning/hunting under $30 a box of 500.
9mm is offline  
Old December 8, 2012, 12:32 AM   #13
bonefamily
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 28, 2012
Location: central Ohio
Posts: 304
^^ But from what I have read, some do use a .22 for SD.
bonefamily is offline  
Old December 8, 2012, 06:12 AM   #14
Hal
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 8,563
Quote:
I wondered why there is no FMJ ammo for .22lr.
What a FMJ in a .22 rimfire?
Get a .22 magnum..
Lot's of them are real copper jackets and not a copper wash.
Hal is offline  
Old December 8, 2012, 11:22 AM   #15
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by simonrichter
Eventually, one issue where a FMJ would make sense occured to me, namely lead free ammo which might be important in the light of environmental awareness... Just a thought, though...
Typical centerfire FMJ ammunition is not lead free. It is a lead bullet with a thin copper jacket on it. For most FMJ the jacket doesn't even enclose the base of the bullet, so in a high-pressure round there is still some lead that gets vaporized with every shot.

Lead-free ammo is made of ... "other stuff," such as some recent offerings that use solid copper bullets.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 8, 2012, 12:56 PM   #16
Rainbow Demon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 27, 2012
Posts: 397
Not sure if they are entirely lead free but there are Zinc alloy bullet .22 RF intended for shooting galleries.
These predate any concerns over lead in the air so I don't think that was why these were developed.

There are several FMJ bullet designs that enclose the bullet base, some use a copper alloy plug others drawn the jacket from the base leaving an open meplat.
Rainbow Demon is offline  
Old December 8, 2012, 02:06 PM   #17
9mm
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2011
Location: Land of the Free
Posts: 2,834
I think the best defence of 22lr not being in FMJ is because it is not realiable, no primer, just hit the case to fire. I do not think companies want to market it for "self-defence" because of the failure rate of not going off, no realiable primer.
9mm is offline  
Old December 10, 2012, 10:49 AM   #18
simonrichter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2011
Location: Austria
Posts: 757
Hm, another thought: The russians had this pocket pistol (PSM) in 5,45 x 18mm able to defeat light body armor. Taking a closer look, that ammunition does deliver more or less the same power as a HV 22lr. does out of a pistol barrel, which argues against the statement that the .22lr is anyway to weak to penetrate much and hence doesn't need a FMJ...

5,45 x 18: 94 ft/lbf ME, max pressure: 25.000 PSI
22lr: ca. 90 ft/Ibf, max pressure: 24.000 PSI

not that much difference, but of course the 5,45 would be useless in terms of AP if utilizing just a lump of lead instead of a FMJ (and even hardcore) bullet...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5.45%C3%9718mm
__________________
"Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski
. ISSC PAR .223
simonrichter is offline  
Old December 11, 2012, 05:36 PM   #19
jason_iowa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 30, 2011
Posts: 686
22lr has a primer. It lines the rim. Cheap 22lr ammo is unreliable because of spotty primer in the rim which is why you can often turn a dud strike it in a new spot and it will fire. Good 22lr ammo is extremely reliable. I would still not use it for self defense. I would not carry 9mil/38 special for anything more then a back up either though...
jason_iowa is offline  
Old December 11, 2012, 05:58 PM   #20
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,700
Again, no market. And what need would it fill? Years ago in American Rifleman I saw pictures of pre-WWII 22LR wadcutter ammunition. That I would like to see, but with the waning of the 22 target revolver there is no market for it.
SIGSHR is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 07:14 AM   #21
simonrichter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2011
Location: Austria
Posts: 757
Update: There actually IS FMJ .22lr ammo

...apart from the WWII High Standard issued stuff!

And it's even tracer ammo as well, how cool is that!

I've already laid my eyes and hands on this, it's not a hoax!

You'll find a picture here
__________________
"Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski
. ISSC PAR .223
simonrichter is offline  
Old January 21, 2020, 10:30 AM   #22
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
OP is 8 years old.
__________________
Spelling and grammar count!
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old January 28, 2020, 03:54 PM   #23
JJ45
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 8, 2015
Posts: 908
I think most 22 mag bullets are FMJ whether hollow point or solid...they are about twice as expensive as LR ammo. Of course, the case is longer too.

It's curious that the only 22 mag ammo I can get to shoot well in my Ruger Single Six is the Winchester 45 grain Dyna Point, which might be the only 22 mag loaded with copper plated (washed?) bullets and not FMJs.
JJ45 is offline  
Old February 2, 2020, 02:49 PM   #24
simonrichter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 3, 2011
Location: Austria
Posts: 757
For .22 WMR, FMJ is quite the normal thing. It's 22lr FMJ that's obviously such a rare bird
__________________
"Get off of my lawn!" Walt Kowalski
. ISSC PAR .223
simonrichter is offline  
Old February 2, 2020, 02:56 PM   #25
SIGSHR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 13, 2005
Posts: 4,700
I'd like to see 22 LR wadcutter ammo, they made it before WWII.
SIGSHR is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11160 seconds with 10 queries