What is your Favorite Martial Art and Why? - Page 3

krept · May 25, 2002, 10:07 PM

kote gaeshi is nice, shiho nage or any of the wrist throws are nice provided the limb and momentum are there.

my favorite is irimi nage because it defines the essence of irimi. After understanding the principle of harmony w/moving objects/energy or at least experiencing it in my case, one can easily insert any technique here to really lay into a hit. Insert elbow instead of arm and come across a little less tangentially (more perpindicular) and you have potential for great hit with little wind up as long as you remain centered and drive through.

Not trying to be esoteric, it's the only way I can explain it without a million examples. thoughts?

This kind of flow is awesome, great in bjj.
That's why I love Aikido and feel why I have a million more things to learn about it later on down the road.

Skorzeny · May 25, 2002, 10:29 PM

Lofland:

Quote:

Only a fool would punch like this.

Clearly the traditionalists among Aikidoka haven't seen what is called a "jab."

Quote:

Even after four or five years, the advanced students look pretty messy when they do drills such as randori (I think that was the name)...

If you had Randori, I am assuming that you did Tomiki-style Aikido, which was very heavily influenced by Tomiki (a top student of Dr. Kano Jigoro, the Kodokan Judo founder, who was sent by Dr. Kano to learn Aikido from Ueshiba Morihei).

Aikido Randori is not really Randori. By nature, techniques used in Randori should be able to be done full force - that is not usually the case with Aikido techniques.

Krept:

Quote:

kote gaeshi is nice, shiho nage or any of the wrist throws are nice provided the limb and momentum are there.

my favorite is irimi nage because it defines the essence of irimi.

IMO, Kote Gaeshi as a defense against a punch is worse than useless. However, it makes a wonderful techniques if somone were to try to grab your sheathed weapon from the front. In such a case, there is no need to "intercept" the wrist (a hard enough thing to do on its own) - the wrist is already there for you. Also, instead of thinking of Kote Gaeshi as a throw, it really should be thought as either a wrist dislocation or controlling technique - to prevent your opponent from grabbing your weapon or his own (later).

Irimi Nage is a beautiful and refined technique. As in Judo, Atemi-Waza is the key to make the throwing techniques work. Sadly (again), most Aikikai-affiliated Aikidoka have given up on Atemi.

Skorzeny

Lofland · May 26, 2002, 10:32 AM

Skorzeny, when I said randori I think I got the name wrong. I've been reading BJJ and judo forums lately. I studied Seidokan Aikido (www.seidokan.org) at the University of Texas Aikido Club. There's a nice chart showing the lineage at

http://www.stillpointaikido.com/AboutUs.htm

Bill Sosa studied under Kobayashi, the founder of Seidokan, although Sosa's dojo isn't listed in the main Seidokan site.

The traditionalist argument is that, as you progress over a few years, the attacks get more realistic, and you will learn to use Aikido against a jab, cross, hook, etc. I hope to go back to Aikido and learn those techniques some day. But for defending myself on the street, I think there are more practical options.

I think the police use kote gaeshi and other Aikido techniques more as a control either in controlling a suspect or weapon retention/disarming. My dojo taught it more as a defense against an attack, where the uke was giving you the limb and momentum to work with, as Krept mentioned. The fact is, though, if your real-world opponent is dumb enough to give you those, and you are psychologically prepared for the fight, there are 500 things you can do to pound the guy. The hard part is learning to spot the opponent telegraphing his move at the instant he really commits to it. That skill really comes from sparring, which is done in only a limited form in Aikido.

To get back to the original thread topic, practical self-defense styles such as Tony Blauer's are good because they help you to detect and defuse potential fights before you have to defend yourself. If those tactics fail and you come to blows, Blauer's techniques will work better in the "oh [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]!!" moment of the initial attack, when you're still in a state of fear/disbelief, and your timing and dexterity are 20% of what they are in the calm confines of the dojo.

Hours of practice with irimi nage, kokyu nage, and other throws helped me to learn to sidestep in boxing. Beginner boxers do tend to lunge forward and put their weight into punches, so it's easier to make them over-extend and lose their balance. The principles of balance are the same in any martial art or boxing. It's actually fun to play with my boxing buddies (with their agreement), trying to mimic an Aikido type of move when wearing boxing gloves and headgear. Irimi nage is a good example. You can do a sort of kote gaeshi move if the guy tries to do a big haymaker which gets him off balance. Kokyu nage can work sometimes, since it doesn't require a wrist hold.

Gomez · May 26, 2002, 04:30 PM

Anthony:

From your initial post it looks like you are interested in augmenting your ability to defend yourself thru the study of a martial art. You state that you're not interested in a "quick fix seminar". I would suggest that an appropriate short course would be a very sound investment. Most martial arts do not integrate with defensive gunhandling very well.

Several of the better training schools offer unarmed programs that dovetail with their armed training programs. Three that come to mind are:

Insights Training Center (www.insightstraining.com)

Options for Personal Security (www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com)

Tactical Defense Institute (www.tdiohio.com)

Any of these weekend courses would give you an immense "legup" in defensive capability, Right Now, as opposed to the longterm commitment of martial arts. I'm not saying that studying martial arts is bad, far from it. I just think that having a "quick and dirty" response preprogrammed immediately is a good thing which can be built upon, modified, or even discarded after you've spent enough time with your chosen martial art to develop a sufficient skill level in that martial art.

Both Insights and OPS travel through Texas regularly.

I've got no issues with longterm study of the martial arts, but I beleive that a well-designed unarmed course, like those listed above, provide you with a higher level of usuable skill in a more compressed timeframe than you generally get from the martial arts.

RobRPM2222 · May 27, 2002, 12:55 AM

yeah, I'm on the Underground. You go there often?

I'm spending more of my time looking at the QnA's on the UG and the OG than the UG these days.

krept · May 27, 2002, 04:31 PM

Used to go around there, maybe once every couple of months ago. Been around since before there was an OG, got tired of enforcing the "gotta have a pic on the threads with 'hottie' in the title" rule and ended up here and on bladeforums.com

I'm actually surprised with the knowledge that some people have of mma both here and on bladeforums. Makes for good discussions with much less trolling

Lofland · May 27, 2002, 11:33 PM

Krept, you're ignoring the OG at your own peril. Sure, The Firing Line and Bladeforums are great, but they just tell you about fighting the average dirtbag on the street. The OG, on the other hand, has a huge thread right now called "Zombie Battle Plan," with almost two hundred posts on the best tactics in case zombies ever start coming out of the ground en masse. This threat is sadly ignored on all other forums, as far as I can tell.

snicklefritz · May 31, 2002, 01:00 PM

Vale Tudo (focused mainly on Jiu-Jitsu and Muay Thai)

While I do not have experience with any other MA, it is my impression that one becomes effective very rapidly. Many others that I train with feel the same, and many of them have experience in other MAs.

With 18 months of training, I have made short work of several Taekwondo black belts. Perhaps that is not saying much to those of you that are more seasoned, but I am more than happy with the skills that I have learned.

My $.02.

hamadryad · June 1, 2002, 11:31 AM

Well my favorite is Arnis de Mano or Escrima its also known in the states as the filipino fighting sticks, i hold the rank of lakamanim or its equivalent of sixth dan, its very formidable technique that even the us special forces have incorporated it in their training and has been a part of jeet kun do for quite some time. The advantage of arnis is the fact that you develop speed and since the sticks moves faster the arms and hand when your facing an unarmed opponent it easier to see his movement. And another thing arnis de mano techniques can be used without sticks.

ive also studied aikido, judo, shorin ryu karate and kendo

Anthony · June 5, 2002, 11:03 PM

Hello Everyone,

Just thought I'd give all of you an update.

Went to observe a Shotokan Karate class at a local activity center, but was turned off by all the kids in the class. When I was about to leave I saw someone in a different style of uniform. So I asked what their class was. It turns out it is a Modern Arnis class taught by a local guy who does it part time for enjoyment. He really loves the art and does not teach children. He only charges $20 a month so I figured I couldn't miss by at least observing a class. Wow! I was overwhelmed!

Wonderful art! Extremely combat oriented!

Well I've taken three sessions now and I'm hooked!

Any thoughts on Modern Arnis?

- Anthony

hamadryad · June 12, 2002, 04:30 AM

Well the Modern Arnis, Escrima and Arnis de Mano are generally the same it a wonderful and dangerousart use by the early filipinos for fighting using Kris instead of sticks, after the spanish occupation the spaniards prohibited the used of the kris the filipinos substituted sticks with almost the same effectiveness thus the arnis was born. As ive said earlier even the us special forces are incorporating it in their hand to hand combat regimen since arnis is effective even without the use of the sticks even bruce lee who is well known for his use of nunchucks incorporated it and is now part of JKD. At the moment we the the practitioners of the different variation of arnis are trying to standardize and develop the the best technique from the different schools cause arnis is a very diverse technique it even includes the use of balisong(butterfly knife)

Skorzeny · June 12, 2002, 10:16 PM

Guro Dan Inosanto has been instrumental in integrating Filippino martial arts into Jeet Kune Do Concepts.

Skorzeny

shy_man · June 13, 2002, 09:38 AM

When I was in High School (2nd year) was my first introduction to the Martial Arts World. I don't know so much style name, but my instructor told us that his style is WADO RYU. A branch of Japanese Karate. Then, he incorporates Hapkido. This kind of martial arts are the one that taught me the basic and until now it is the kind that I depend on.

In my college days, I was introduced to the Fighting Stick (Arnis) and also Judo. But still my WADO Ryu is the martial art that moulded me.

Why I like my WADO Ryu, it is more on counter offensive. I let my opponent strike me first then, I can apply a better defense followed of my offensive move. Although it is against of the philosophy that the better defense is to make an offensive move first.

boris_01 · June 14, 2002, 10:17 PM

What about "Small Circle Jujitsu"? I currently am training in "American Combat Jujitsu". Which was founded by Prof. Tony Maynard, who studied under Prof. Wally Jay. The founder of "Small circle Jujitsu". Just thought that Prof. Jay needed mentioning here. He is quite an impressive man if you have the honor of meeting him or attend his seminars.

May 25, 2002, 10:07 PM	#51
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	kote gaeshi is nice, shiho nage or any of the wrist throws are nice provided the limb and momentum are there. my favorite is irimi nage because it defines the essence of irimi. After understanding the principle of harmony w/moving objects/energy or at least experiencing it in my case, one can easily insert any technique here to really lay into a hit. Insert elbow instead of arm and come across a little less tangentially (more perpindicular) and you have potential for great hit with little wind up as long as you remain centered and drive through. Not trying to be esoteric, it's the only way I can explain it without a million examples. thoughts? This kind of flow is awesome, great in bjj. That's why I love Aikido and feel why I have a million more things to learn about it later on down the road. __________________ the tallest blade of grass is the first to greet the lawnmower blade

May 26, 2002, 04:30 PM	#54
Gomez Senior Member Join Date: May 26, 2002 Location: Baton Rouge, LA Posts: 297	Anthony: From your initial post it looks like you are interested in augmenting your ability to defend yourself thru the study of a martial art. You state that you're not interested in a "quick fix seminar". I would suggest that an appropriate short course would be a very sound investment. Most martial arts do not integrate with defensive gunhandling very well. Several of the better training schools offer unarmed programs that dovetail with their armed training programs. Three that come to mind are: Insights Training Center (www.insightstraining.com) Options for Personal Security (www.optionsforpersonalsecurity.com) Tactical Defense Institute (www.tdiohio.com) Any of these weekend courses would give you an immense "legup" in defensive capability, Right Now, as opposed to the longterm commitment of martial arts. I'm not saying that studying martial arts is bad, far from it. I just think that having a "quick and dirty" response preprogrammed immediately is a good thing which can be built upon, modified, or even discarded after you've spent enough time with your chosen martial art to develop a sufficient skill level in that martial art. Both Insights and OPS travel through Texas regularly. I've got no issues with longterm study of the martial arts, but I beleive that a well-designed unarmed course, like those listed above, provide you with a higher level of usuable skill in a more compressed timeframe than you generally get from the martial arts. __________________ "Not only do these people reach erroneous conclusions and make unfortunate choices, but their incompetence robs them of the metacognitive ability to realize it." --Kruger & Dunning

May 27, 2002, 12:55 AM	#55
RobRPM2222 Junior Member Join Date: April 27, 2002 Posts: 11	UG? yeah, I'm on the Underground. You go there often? I'm spending more of my time looking at the QnA's on the UG and the OG than the UG these days. __________________ Jujutsu!

May 27, 2002, 04:31 PM	#56
krept Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2000 Location: AZ Posts: 1,363	Used to go around there, maybe once every couple of months ago. Been around since before there was an OG, got tired of enforcing the "gotta have a pic on the threads with 'hottie' in the title" rule and ended up here and on bladeforums.com I'm actually surprised with the knowledge that some people have of mma both here and on bladeforums. Makes for good discussions with much less trolling __________________ the tallest blade of grass is the first to greet the lawnmower blade

June 12, 2002, 10:16 PM	#62
Skorzeny Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 1999 Posts: 1,938	Guro Dan Inosanto has been instrumental in integrating Filippino martial arts into Jeet Kune Do Concepts. Skorzeny __________________ For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

May 26, 2002, 10:32 AM	#53
Lofland Member Join Date: May 23, 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 37	Skorzeny, when I said randori I think I got the name wrong. I've been reading BJJ and judo forums lately. I studied Seidokan Aikido (www.seidokan.org) at the University of Texas Aikido Club. There's a nice chart showing the lineage at http://www.stillpointaikido.com/AboutUs.htm Bill Sosa studied under Kobayashi, the founder of Seidokan, although Sosa's dojo isn't listed in the main Seidokan site. The traditionalist argument is that, as you progress over a few years, the attacks get more realistic, and you will learn to use Aikido against a jab, cross, hook, etc. I hope to go back to Aikido and learn those techniques some day. But for defending myself on the street, I think there are more practical options. I think the police use kote gaeshi and other Aikido techniques more as a control either in controlling a suspect or weapon retention/disarming. My dojo taught it more as a defense against an attack, where the uke was giving you the limb and momentum to work with, as Krept mentioned. The fact is, though, if your real-world opponent is dumb enough to give you those, and you are psychologically prepared for the fight, there are 500 things you can do to pound the guy. The hard part is learning to spot the opponent telegraphing his move at the instant he really commits to it. That skill really comes from sparring, which is done in only a limited form in Aikido. To get back to the original thread topic, practical self-defense styles such as Tony Blauer's are good because they help you to detect and defuse potential fights before you have to defend yourself. If those tactics fail and you come to blows, Blauer's techniques will work better in the "oh [color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color][color=#FF0000]█[/color]!!" moment of the initial attack, when you're still in a state of fear/disbelief, and your timing and dexterity are 20% of what they are in the calm confines of the dojo. Hours of practice with irimi nage, kokyu nage, and other throws helped me to learn to sidestep in boxing. Beginner boxers do tend to lunge forward and put their weight into punches, so it's easier to make them over-extend and lose their balance. The principles of balance are the same in any martial art or boxing. It's actually fun to play with my boxing buddies (with their agreement), trying to mimic an Aikido type of move when wearing boxing gloves and headgear. Irimi nage is a good example. You can do a sort of kote gaeshi move if the guy tries to do a big haymaker which gets him off balance. Kokyu nage can work sometimes, since it doesn't require a wrist hold.

May 27, 2002, 11:33 PM	#57
Lofland Member Join Date: May 23, 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 37	Krept, you're ignoring the OG at your own peril. Sure, The Firing Line and Bladeforums are great, but they just tell you about fighting the average dirtbag on the street. The OG, on the other hand, has a huge thread right now called "Zombie Battle Plan," with almost two hundred posts on the best tactics in case zombies ever start coming out of the ground en masse. This threat is sadly ignored on all other forums, as far as I can tell.

May 31, 2002, 01:00 PM	#58
snicklefritz Junior Member Join Date: May 31, 2002 Posts: 2	Vale Tudo (focused mainly on Jiu-Jitsu and Muay Thai) While I do not have experience with any other MA, it is my impression that one becomes effective very rapidly. Many others that I train with feel the same, and many of them have experience in other MAs. With 18 months of training, I have made short work of several Taekwondo black belts. Perhaps that is not saying much to those of you that are more seasoned, but I am more than happy with the skills that I have learned. My $.02.

June 1, 2002, 11:31 AM	#59
hamadryad Junior Member Join Date: December 2, 2001 Location: asia Posts: 5	Well my favorite is Arnis de Mano or Escrima its also known in the states as the filipino fighting sticks, i hold the rank of lakamanim or its equivalent of sixth dan, its very formidable technique that even the us special forces have incorporated it in their training and has been a part of jeet kun do for quite some time. The advantage of arnis is the fact that you develop speed and since the sticks moves faster the arms and hand when your facing an unarmed opponent it easier to see his movement. And another thing arnis de mano techniques can be used without sticks. ive also studied aikido, judo, shorin ryu karate and kendo

June 5, 2002, 11:03 PM	#60
Anthony Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 1998 Location: Dallas, Texas (United States) Posts: 416	Hello Everyone, Just thought I'd give all of you an update. Went to observe a Shotokan Karate class at a local activity center, but was turned off by all the kids in the class. When I was about to leave I saw someone in a different style of uniform. So I asked what their class was. It turns out it is a Modern Arnis class taught by a local guy who does it part time for enjoyment. He really loves the art and does not teach children. He only charges $20 a month so I figured I couldn't miss by at least observing a class. Wow! I was overwhelmed! Wonderful art! Extremely combat oriented! Well I've taken three sessions now and I'm hooked! Any thoughts on Modern Arnis? - Anthony

June 12, 2002, 04:30 AM	#61
hamadryad Junior Member Join Date: December 2, 2001 Location: asia Posts: 5	Well the Modern Arnis, Escrima and Arnis de Mano are generally the same it a wonderful and dangerousart use by the early filipinos for fighting using Kris instead of sticks, after the spanish occupation the spaniards prohibited the used of the kris the filipinos substituted sticks with almost the same effectiveness thus the arnis was born. As ive said earlier even the us special forces are incorporating it in their hand to hand combat regimen since arnis is effective even without the use of the sticks even bruce lee who is well known for his use of nunchucks incorporated it and is now part of JKD. At the moment we the the practitioners of the different variation of arnis are trying to standardize and develop the the best technique from the different schools cause arnis is a very diverse technique it even includes the use of balisong(butterfly knife)

June 13, 2002, 09:38 AM	#63
shy_man Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Valenzuela City, Metro Manila, Philippines Posts: 366	When I was in High School (2nd year) was my first introduction to the Martial Arts World. I don't know so much style name, but my instructor told us that his style is WADO RYU. A branch of Japanese Karate. Then, he incorporates Hapkido. This kind of martial arts are the one that taught me the basic and until now it is the kind that I depend on. In my college days, I was introduced to the Fighting Stick (Arnis) and also Judo. But still my WADO Ryu is the martial art that moulded me. Why I like my WADO Ryu, it is more on counter offensive. I let my opponent strike me first then, I can apply a better defense followed of my offensive move. Although it is against of the philosophy that the better defense is to make an offensive move first.

June 14, 2002, 10:17 PM	#64
boris_01 Member Join Date: November 14, 2001 Location: N.C. Posts: 61	What about "Small Circle Jujitsu"? I currently am training in "American Combat Jujitsu". Which was founded by Prof. Tony Maynard, who studied under Prof. Wally Jay. The founder of "Small circle Jujitsu". Just thought that Prof. Jay needed mentioning here. He is quite an impressive man if you have the honor of meeting him or attend his seminars.