Want another 1911

[915A]

So Im not a brand loyal guy. Would like to stay American made if possible. Want another Commander frame. Thinking Colt, Ruger, Kimber, S&W, or? Thoughts on Aluminum vs Steel, 9mm 1911? Budget is 1k give or take. What can you guys recommend?

[1stmar]

Did you look at the para black ops? Colt is always a good choice as is Springfield or the ruger.

[runningbear]

I did some trading of two Kimber 1911 .45s for two new Colt 1911 .45s had to add some cash not a lot,ended up with a Colt Mod.1991 and a Colt Mod. XSE both have quality fit and finish's and both shoot great. I vote for Colt.

[dusty14u]

Springfields are made in Brazil and only some are assembled in the USA. I am not sure where Ruger gets theirs. STI has their parts made by Amscor in the Phillipines and finished in the US.

I think Colt and Kimbers are good products. I grew up shooting Colts and don't currently own one and I have a Kimber Raptor that has been great. Remington might be a good one to look at also.

[915A]

Really lookin at the Colt XSE

[mulespurs]

I have a Kimber CDPll, Which is alloy frame and full size in a 45. I really like the alloy frame part and the dehorning of the edges. I have 10,000 rounds thru it.
I have replaced springs as routine maintenance. If you feed it good ammo it is 100% reliable for me. It also has night sights that are really good in low light conditions.

[Grant D]

I like my Colt XSE Lightweight Commander, and my Kimber. Both good 1911's

[runningbear]

They quit making them why I have no idea,the Para CCO LDA 4".45acp, all stainless steel .45.
I am guessing the cost I paid over $900 US for mine.
Has this super good trigger,a little flapper of a hammer you would think it can't hit the primer hard enough to fire the gun, but it does it just fine.

It's been replaced by the Para Wart Hog, it's really not the same Para as my CCO LDA.

[dusty14u]

I am not sure how much the OP wants to stay with a totally American firearm but the Para's are made in Canada and the headquarters for Para USA is in Pineville Nc but no production exists there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para-Ordnance

[HKFan9]

Springfields are made in Brazil and only some are assembled in the USA. I am not sure where Ruger gets theirs. STI has their parts made by Amscor in the Phillipines and finished in the US.

I think Colt and Kimbers are good products. I grew up shooting Colts and don't currently own one and I have a Kimber Raptor that has been great. Remington might be a good one to look at also.

Springfield owns a forgery in Brazil, and yes the cheaper models are assembeled there, some of the more expensive ones are assembled in the US.

Ruger casts most of their own parts.

STI has their cheapest model the Spartan's parts built by Armscor and finish them themselves (actually great guns for the money) Their other models are US produced.

Kimber's are OK, I like mine, but some have issues.

Remingtons are junk, and now also own Para which are also junk.

For a 9mm 1911 USA made, I'd look for a Dan Wesson or a STI. I have a STI Tactical SS 5.0 9mm that is probably my favorite handgun. However your 1K budget might need to grow a little for a DW or STI. The lawman's are cheaper, but still around $1200.

[JWT]

Colt XSE series Commander. Run about $900. Very nice gun.

[HKFan9]

Also I really wouldn't get too caught up in where something is made in all honesty. All companies make lemons, its my job to deal with them.

Some over seas companies are making stuff better than being made here.

Also it depends on how literal you'd like to take it. Even the $$$ custom - production guns like WC, LB, Nighthawk ect... aren't using steel that was made in Pittsburg.

[dusty14u]

Springfield doesn't own a foundry in Brazil. Imbel produces 1911 for the American market through Springfield.

Taken from this link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMBEL


M1911 pistols: Project Colt - IMBEL acquired a manufacturing license for the M1911 pistol, and has exported pistols to the United States of America through Springfield Armory, Inc. (sold under the Springfield Armory brand) since 1985. It produces .380 ACP, 9mm Parabellum, .40 S&W and .45 ACP models. All Springfield Armory, Inc. 1911's with an "IMBEL, Brazil" stamp start on IMBEL's production lines.

[5whiskey]

Some over seas companies are making stuff better than being made here.

Never truer words...

10 years ago there were TONS of people who were quite disappointed at the failure rate and how ammo-finicky their American-made Kimbers were. Meanwhile, most Philippine Armscor specimens (I think it may have only been RIA back then but I'm not positive) were just about as accurate as the Kimbers and would eat any ammo you put in them. I still think RIA and most Armscor firearms are GTG. From what I'm hearing Kimber has improved their pistols significantly and many more people are happier with them now, but American made does not always equal best. I am patriotic and I like supporting American companies... but when we're discussing firearms that's not my primary concern.

[giaquir]

Got this from another website,so I can't
say it's gospel:

I'm looking for another 1911. I'm stubborn. Make that very stubborn. I only buy and own (all) American made 1911's. As I dig a little, I find there are very few, make that none that I can find, mass produced 1911's made in America. SA frames and slides are made in Brazil. Some STI's are made in the Philippines. Para USA still made in Canada. Smith and Wesson bought out by the Germans. Colt is going foreign/offshore. U.S. Marines are carrying Benelli shotguns. Kimber is hooking up with HK? Winchesters made in Japan. Besides Ruger and Remington are any decent .45 pistols made in the USA??

[silverstang23]

It doesn't really meet your requirement but I purchased a sig 1911 recently. They are in the $800 range for the most part. I am really happy with it. Very reliable and great trigger and action through the first 350 rounds. For a bit more money the Dan Wesson Valor is very nice. My LGS was at $1200 on a silver one.

[HKFan9]

I would bet most who bicker about it and nit pick at it live close to a community college that offers classes in macro economics, so I won't get into it in here.

I don't care where the steel or parts are made, so as long as they are made right. In spec is just that in spec. I had a used $200 RIA 1911 that I used to keep in my car that was 100% reliable. Was it as nice as my other high end 1911's? No, but it worked when I needed it to, might not shoot a 1'' group at 50 yards, but neither can a $1000 Colt.

Technically a Taurus TCP is an american made firearm... Made in Taurus's plant in Miami USA. It's a pretty nice facility actually, nice indoor range. I will let you guess at our shops return rate on those. Another fun fact about Taurus most gun guru's don't know is they produce some of the machinery some of your beloved guns are made on... sad but true.

I get wanting to support local companies... by all means it is possible, but not for $100. Find a local pistol smith.. or even a non local one, Look up the pistol smiths guild, and have a 1911 to your liking built. It is worth the investment, and you can pick every single part and "have it your way."

Problem is people want everything for nothing.. and American labor, specially skilled gun smith labor... COSTS MONEY.

Sport optics... European and Japanese optics are much better than USA made optics. Don't let Leupold fool you.... They buy Nikon Japan glass for their scopes. They are ASSEMBLED in the US.

It doesn't stop at just the firarms industry... check the label on your clothes, shoes, car, cell phone, computer, food, .... EVERYTHING.

My $300 Northface jacket was not MADE in the US but its a US based company.

To the OP, as I said... if you want a QUALITY USA made firearm, check out Dan Wesson, STI, or I forgot to mention Fusion Firearms. Fusion is owned by Bob Serva, formally the owner of Dan Wesson before they were bought by CZ.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by 915A

Budget is 1k give or take. What can you guys recommend?

With a $1,000 budget, simple: Colt 1991 Commander.

http://www.colt.com/Catalog/Pistols/...%AESeries.aspx

Model O4691 - Blued

If you shop, you can probably find the stainless version for under $1,000 - Model O4091U

What a collection of misinformation THIS is:

I'm looking for another 1911. I'm stubborn. Make that very stubborn. I only buy and own (all) American made 1911's. As I dig a little, I find there are very few, make that none that I can find, mass produced 1911's made in America. SA frames and slides are made in Brazil. Some STI's are made in the Philippines. Para USA still made in Canada. Smith and Wesson bought out by the Germans. Colt is going foreign/offshore. U.S. Marines are carrying Benelli shotguns. Kimber is hooking up with HK? Winchesters made in Japan. Besides Ruger and Remington are any decent .45 pistols made in the USA??

• The STI Spartan is made by Armscor. The other models are American-made.
• ParaUSA pistols are made in North Carolina.
• Smith & Wesson has a working relationship with Walther, but I'm pretty sure that they have not been "bought out by the Germans."
• Colt isn't going anywhere.
• Many 1911 aficionados would disagree that the Remington is a decent pistol.

[915A]

Thanks for the advice guys. Dont get me wrong, it doesn't have to be US made. I own, Sigs, Walthers, etc.. I'm looking hard at the Colts and Rugers. One day Ill do the high end or custom build thing.

[HKFan9]

SW and Walther parted ways about a year ago. Walther has since made their own plant in AZ. SW was taking care of the US distribution of the German Walther line.

Let's not forget our presious US company Smith & Wesson used to be owned by the same foreign holding company that once owned Taurus at the same time .....

[RickB]

I think Springfield's relationship with Imbel has changed, in the last year or two.
I got a new Range Officer last Summer, and there are no import markings on it. I think Springfield is doing enough of the machining in-house that what they're getting from Imbel no longer qualifies as a gun (not a serialed part).
Springfield has expanded the RO line to include compact "CCO" versions, and there's a rumor that there will soon be a RO Commander (4" barrel, full-length frame).

[HKFan9]

They get their forgings and some work done from Imbel, it depends on the model of firearm.

The GI's were all made more or less by Imbel with the except of a few cuts to the frame, and final finishing. Same goes for the N marked Mil-Spec's, and loadeds. The NM serial numbers on Loadeds, TRP, and Trophy Matches were finished mostly in the US, the forgings from Imbel. The internal cuts were made by Imbel but the rest of the maching and rails were all cut and finished in the US.

Their other models, such as the lightweight operator series have different serial number abbrivations, were all made in the US.

The Springfield Custom shop is owned and operated by Springfield, but they are almost a seperate entity, and all of their firearms are made in the US.

I have owned numerous N and NM marked Springfields, only really had an issue with a N marked Stainless Loaded. The slide stop was fitted too loose and would walk out and sieze the slide while firing. Had the gunsmith at work dimple the flat on the slide release so the detent sat a little deeper in it and cured the problem.

I spoke with our rep on the phone for awhile about the process when I was ordering a Lightweight Champion Operator on my pro staff form a few years back. You can call and speak to them, they are pretty nice and open about how they do buisness.

Personally I would take my NM marked TRP, Trophy Match, and Loaded over a US made Remington R1 or Ruger anyday.

[WVsig]

So much misinformation in this thread it really hurts my head.

Springfield owns a forgery in Brazil, and yes the cheaper models are assembeled there, some of the more expensive ones are assembled in the US.

Imbel is not owned by Springfield.

STI has their cheapest model the Spartan's parts built by Armscor and finish them themselves (actually great guns for the money) Their other models are US produced.

STI does no work on the Spartans. They spot check batches here in the US but they do not "finish" them here. It is more like they are blessed in TX. I would guess that 99.9% of them receive no fitting or finish by STI. If they did they would not be selling them at the price point they do. This does not make them bad guns it just makes them what they are. Armscor frames and slides with some STI parts assembled in the Philippines on its own assembly line inside of Armscor.

I'm looking for another 1911. I'm stubborn. Make that very stubborn. I only buy and own (all) American made 1911's. As I dig a little, I find there are very few, make that none that I can find, mass produced 1911's made in America. SA frames and slides are made in Brazil. Some STI's are made in the Philippines. Para USA still made in Canada. Smith and Wesson bought out by the Germans. Colt is going foreign/offshore. U.S. Marines are carrying Benelli shotguns. Kimber is hooking up with HK? Winchesters made in Japan. Besides Ruger and Remington are any decent .45 pistols made in the USA??

Aguila Blanca covered these but I am going to add some additional detail.

Really only one STI is made in the Philippines it is the Spartan. There are 3 different versions of the Spartan coming in 45 ACP and 9mm so yes 6 STI guns are made in the Philippines. All others are made in TX.

Para is now made and serviced in the US in Pineville, NC. They have been for a while now. They are making better guns these days. Still not something I would buy but they have an improving track record.

Colt is not making any 1911s off shore at this time. They have saved themselves with a cash influx for the short term and will be around for a long time IMHO. They are not going anywhere.

Smith and Wesson is a publicly traded company. NASDAQ:SWHC The co-marketing and serving agreement with Walther is over and it last year IIRC. They were never owned or even controlled by Walther.

The GI's were all made more or less by Imbel with the except of a few cuts to the frame, and final finishing. Same goes for the N marked Mil-Spec's, and loadeds. The NM serial numbers on Loadeds, TRP, and Trophy Matches were finished mostly in the US, the forgings from Imbel. The internal cuts were made by Imbel but the rest of the maching and rails were all cut and finished in the US.

The entire NM or N mark on Springfield 1911s is a point of constant confusion.

Springfield uses the prefixes of "N" and "NM" to designate 1911-A1 type pistols, just as we used "AM" as the prefix for the P9 series of pistols. The only pistols which use the national match frames are the complete custom pistols built through our custom shop. These pistols have "Springfield Custom" etched on the slide, and will have the "NM" prefix to the serial number.

Deb, Custom Shop Coordinator
Springfield Custom
Springfield Inc.
[email protected]

NM is used in two ways by SA. One is by the custom shop to mark National Match frames which come out of the custom shop and the the "NM" in the serial number along with the SA custom shop logo.

Then there are the NM serialized guns that do not have a custom shop logo which is believed to designate final finishing in the US vs Brazil. Some believe these to be superior to N marked guns. I am not a big enough SA fan to tell you if that is true or not.

[WVsig]

To the OP if you are willing to stretch the budget a bit and do not mind an alloy frame I would take a close look at the Dan Wesson Guardian. You can get them for about $1400. You can also find blemish guns for right around $1200.

If you are trying to keep it under $1000 it is hard to beat the Colt XSE. It will hold its value better than most 1911s and will have less MIM and cast parts then most in the sub $1000 category.

If you don't mind cast the Ruger is a decent choice. I think it looks better than it shoots but a lot of people like them.

If you don't mind a bull barrel and the looks of the STI Spartan it is a decent gun. It is not my cup of tea but lots of people like them and the fit and finish is nicer than other Armscor guns but not as nice as other STI guns.

I would pass on a Sig because it has an internal extractor. It is not my preference because it is not a user serviceable part. I do not like S&Ws for the same reason. Of these 2 the S&W has a better longer track record but Sig seems to be making a decent 1911 like gun these days.

If you want to use this gun as a base gun for a custom build down the road I would suggest getting a plain Colt Combat Commander. It will be easier and cheaper to customize later down the road then a XSE.


Good luck.

[TGReaper]

My pick for a commander size 1911 is the STI Ranger 11 series. I have two ,one .45ACP and one 9 MM. Both have performed with out failures of any type. The only mod. is the mainspring housing, I changed them to steel from plastic. Not really required I just like the steel better.
TGR.