.35 Rem. vs. 30-30 - Page 2

model18 · September 3, 2013, 10:47 AM

I reloaded for my model 14 back in the day with 180 Speer bullets and it never took more than one shot to kill deer in upstate NY. Never used factory ammo to hunt, so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

**44 AMP** · September 3, 2013, 12:11 PM

I grew up deer hunting with my father, relatives and friends in the Adirondacks of northern New York, in the early 1970s. We didn't often hunt the "southern zone" (designated by the game laws, it was shotgun slug only for deer there).

The rifles carried by our party members were fairly typical for the area, mostly Winchester or Marlins of varying vintages, mostly in .30-30 or .32 Special. Exceptions existed, Art carried a old Remington pump, (either model 14 or 141, I can no longer remember) that didn't have a shred of bluing left on it, anywhere. Caliber .30 Remington. Hiram carried a borrowed rifle, nearly always, although once in a while he had his own, until after deer season, when it would get sold. Often he used my uncle Jim's Savage 99 .300 Savage (Uncle Jim couldn't manage the woods any more).

My Dad carried a Winchester 94 .32 Special (because he got it virtually new and dirt cheap from a cousin's estate. Bob had a Winchester 64 rifle (.30-30). Uncle Lester carried a Marlin .30-30 for years, until he fell on it, and broke the stock off. The gun he replaced it with was another Marlin, but in .35 Remington. And I've seen others use the .35 too. For a long time, the only real reason the .35 Remington survived on the market was because of the Marlin rifle it came in.

The other Remington rounds in that family faded into the obscure/obsolete category. The .25, .30, & .32 Remington, by the 1970s were in that group that if you had one, and found some store that still had ammo, you bought it all, even if that meant you had to short something else for a while. Because there was no way to know when, if ever you would find ammo for it again.

(at 15, I was a beginning handloader, the only one in the group). Well, back to the .35...

It is my experience that the .35 Remington (and the other .35s too) have an effect on game that is not well reflected in the ballistics on paper.

On paper, the .35 Rem is not tremendously better than the .30-30. My personal experience is that deer do not know this. A good hit with everything knocks them down. A good hit with a .35 (or bigger) knocks them over! I won't try to explain exactly why this happens, but I've seen it happen, more than once.

Between the .30-30 and the .35 Rem, the difference in energy and bullet size doesn't seem that much on paper, but the difference in the way the deer react (that I have personally seen) has been considerable.

Your experience might be just the opposite, but mine tells me that if the choice is a .30-30 or a .35 for deep woods deer, take the .35!

and just FYI, what I carried back then (and sometimes still do) was a Remington 600 in .308 Win.
It worked just fine, too!

ThomasT · September 3, 2013, 03:13 PM

I have posted this before. It comes from the leverguns articles.

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/compare.htm

I usually get a rise out of somebody over the list.

Dirty_Harry · September 3, 2013, 03:18 PM

I dont have a ton of experience with either, so my opinion doesnt mean much. I went with a .35 because I like the thought of the bigger bullet with basically the same ballistics. I plan to take mine for deer this year, and hopefully black bear in the future.

My 336 is a pretty sweet gun though...

Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic...

OkieCruffler · September 3, 2013, 10:25 PM

As a young pup I had both and usually used the 30-30 on deer because it shot abit flatter. For anything larger than deer I had my 444. Weird, the 35 is the one I miss the most.

tahoe2 · September 3, 2013, 11:30 PM

I do think heavier bullets are better killers, and I think of both as 175
yard guns or less so bullet drop wouldn't be a concern for me.
If I need to shoot farther I'll grab something else from the safe.

Boomer58cal · September 4, 2013, 10:32 PM

95 win in 30-03 220g RN, the best lever deer combo ever devised

well that's what grandpa thought anyway.

Sorry Sorry back on topic...30-30. I guarantee it's killed more dear than the 35. But that's speculation on my part. Thanks to Hornady the 30-30 has entered the modern age with the mono-flex bullets.

Its funny how little respect the old 30-30 gets nowadays by the younger guys who shoot deer with 223's?

223 was designed to blow up bushy tailed limb rats.

In reality it's a toss up. Both are excellent well proven cartridges.

Boomer

steveNChunter · September 5, 2013, 09:20 PM

.35 rem/.30-.30

Ford/Chevy

The winner of the battle depends on who you're talking to.

The article ratshooter posted shows the .30-30 with the slightest advantage in pretty much every way.

But... I was raised on a .35, so thats what I prefer. To each his own

In a recent survey, 100 out of 100 dead deer said they couldn't tell the difference.

Keg · September 6, 2013, 12:16 AM

30-30.....I prefer 170 gr
1)The ballistics charts don't lie......
2)better choice of ammo.....
3)way easier to find ammo.....

Bezoar · September 6, 2013, 04:45 AM

why does anyone even argue this at all? We all know the 30-30 is the superior cartridge in all aspects.

Ive shot the calibers side by side. THe 35 remington just sucks. At 50 yards the 200 grain slug simply could not go more then half way through an 8 inch thick oak stump i cut that morning. the 150 grain core lokt from a 30-30 went THROUGH the stump.

**44 AMP** · September 6, 2013, 10:33 AM

Quote:

We all know the 30-30 is the superior cartridge in all aspects

Deer don't.

Chuck Dye · September 6, 2013, 12:57 PM

To answer Mr. Eatman, the dominant .35 Remington loads in my Oehler Ballistic Explorer Ammo Library are 200 grain bullets with B.C.s of .193 and .194 at 2080 fps. The software says they are ±3" to 188 yards. The best listed is Hornady's 200 grain, B.C. of .300, at 2225 fps, ±3" to 213 yards.

The most commons .30-30 loads are 170 grain bullets, with B.C.s ranging from .250 to .314, at 2200 fps, ±3" from 205 yards to 212 yards. Hornady's 160 grain Evolution load seems best at 2400 fps, ±3" to 231 yards.

My range session comparing software predictions to actual holes in targets at measured ranges was a wash: any real differences would have taken many more rounds and much more precise measurements to noodle out.

On paper, at least, the critters will not likely notice the differences.

Boomer58cal · September 6, 2013, 01:19 PM

Quote:

We all know the 30-30 is the superior cartridge in all aspects

I'm a die-hard 30-30 guy and I would even argue that statement. There's something to be said for a bigger bullet.

Boomer

steveNChunter · September 6, 2013, 09:16 PM

Quote:

why does anyone even argue this at all? We all know the 30-30 is the superior cartridge in all aspects.

Ive shot the calibers side by side. THe 35 remington just sucks. At 50 yards the 200 grain slug simply could not go more then half way through an 8 inch thick oak stump i cut that morning. the 150 grain core lokt from a 30-30 went THROUGH the stump.

Then how in the world did I shoot a 200 pound whitetail with my .35 at 175 yards last season with the bullet passing through both shoulders and dropping the deer where he stood? The .35 will do everything the .30-30 will and vice-versa.

I realize people have their favorite cartridges but that doesn't mean that all others are inferior.

reynolds357 · September 6, 2013, 09:28 PM

I like the .35 Remington in my T.C. contender handgun. Its a handfull.

Boomer58cal · September 6, 2013, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Ive shot the calibers side by side. THe 35 remington just sucks. At 50 yards the 200 grain slug simply could not go more then half way through an 8 inch thick oak stump i cut that morning. the 150 grain core lokt from a 30-30 went THROUGH the stump.

Stumps are not the most uniform test media. In fact they're one of the least uniform test medias I can think of.

Boomer

Bezoar · September 7, 2013, 12:10 AM

well in my own humble experience a 30-30 on a deer at 60 yards outdoes what a 35 remington does at 35 yards.

**44 AMP** · September 7, 2013, 10:50 AM

Quote:

well in my own humble experience a 30-30 on a deer at 60 yards outdoes what a 35 remington does at 35 yards.

OK, now I have to wonder at that short range, HOW did the .30-30 outdo the .35?

MLeake · September 7, 2013, 10:53 AM

My guess would be shot placement, and that he had the .30-30 sighted in better than he had the .35.

Boomer58cal · September 7, 2013, 12:32 PM

There's literally no way you or the animal could tell the difference. Shot placement and bullet construction are far larger variables then the difference between these two cartridges.

If you use the same bullet design and shot the exact same place on the same animal they would have the exact same effect. Dead deer.

The difference between these two rounds is barely distinguishable even with a chronograph and ballistics gel.

Boomer

ThomasT · September 7, 2013, 10:39 PM

I posted that chart as a sort of a joke. The numbers are so close as to be meaningless in the real world. Whatever that is. So in the end pick whatatever round blows your hair back. My hunting buddies brother in east Tx bought a 35 rem because he thought it was better. He stated later he wished he had got the 30-30 because ammo was easier to find. And that was 20+ years ago.

I suppose that that might be the best reason to pick a 30-30 over the 35 remington. I reload and look at componant availability all the time. The 35rem has always been hard to get brass for. Now its just nearly impossible. Bullets are also few and far between. And if the bigger bullet makes a better killer then my 44 mag marlin shooting a 200gr bullet 2000+ fps beats the 35 remington at the same speed.

I would have a 35 if ammo was easy to get. But I am so supplied with 30-30 stuff a 35 caliber isn't even on the radar for me.

steveNChunter · September 8, 2013, 08:26 AM

I must admit if I didn't have a decent stock of .35 rem brass I would prefer a .30-30 as well. Simply because my beloved family heirloom .35 would have to be a safe queen with no ammo for it.

Salmoneye · September 8, 2013, 10:07 AM

Quote:

I must admit if I didn't have a decent stock of .35 rem brass I would prefer a .30-30 as well. Simply because my beloved family heirloom .35 would have to be a safe queen with no ammo for it.

Here's one way to form 'acceptable' .35 Rem cases...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...l=1#post320637

There are others on the net...

skua44 · September 10, 2013, 05:31 PM

My first deer rifle was a $50 mod. 8 Rem in .35 back in the 60s. I shot several deer with it and never had one take a step. 200 gr cor-lokts worked well for me. I also have a 30-30 and it is probably just as good but the .35 has a special place in my heart and gunsafe.

Mystro · September 11, 2013, 11:06 AM

I don't know why both calibers are not more popular today. The younger guys are really missing out thinking they need a super magnum to kill a whitetail. I don't know if they are hunters or just shooter.

Look at how fast this big moose is dumped by a 30-30.

Go to 24:20 to see the shot.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6xZsgwPlLM0

September 3, 2013, 10:47 AM	#26
model18 Senior Member Join Date: March 14, 2006 Posts: 419	model 14 in .35 Rem I reloaded for my model 14 back in the day with 180 Speer bullets and it never took more than one shot to kill deer in upstate NY. Never used factory ammo to hunt, so I can't comment on their effectiveness.

September 3, 2013, 12:11 PM	#27
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,824	.35s are...different.... I grew up deer hunting with my father, relatives and friends in the Adirondacks of northern New York, in the early 1970s. We didn't often hunt the "southern zone" (designated by the game laws, it was shotgun slug only for deer there). The rifles carried by our party members were fairly typical for the area, mostly Winchester or Marlins of varying vintages, mostly in .30-30 or .32 Special. Exceptions existed, Art carried a old Remington pump, (either model 14 or 141, I can no longer remember) that didn't have a shred of bluing left on it, anywhere. Caliber .30 Remington. Hiram carried a borrowed rifle, nearly always, although once in a while he had his own, until after deer season, when it would get sold. Often he used my uncle Jim's Savage 99 .300 Savage (Uncle Jim couldn't manage the woods any more). My Dad carried a Winchester 94 .32 Special (because he got it virtually new and dirt cheap from a cousin's estate. Bob had a Winchester 64 rifle (.30-30). Uncle Lester carried a Marlin .30-30 for years, until he fell on it, and broke the stock off. The gun he replaced it with was another Marlin, but in .35 Remington. And I've seen others use the .35 too. For a long time, the only real reason the .35 Remington survived on the market was because of the Marlin rifle it came in. The other Remington rounds in that family faded into the obscure/obsolete category. The .25, .30, & .32 Remington, by the 1970s were in that group that if you had one, and found some store that still had ammo, you bought it all, even if that meant you had to short something else for a while. Because there was no way to know when, if ever you would find ammo for it again. (at 15, I was a beginning handloader, the only one in the group). Well, back to the .35... It is my experience that the .35 Remington (and the other .35s too) have an effect on game that is not well reflected in the ballistics on paper. On paper, the .35 Rem is not tremendously better than the .30-30. My personal experience is that deer do not know this. A good hit with everything knocks them down. A good hit with a .35 (or bigger) knocks them over! I won't try to explain exactly why this happens, but I've seen it happen, more than once. Between the .30-30 and the .35 Rem, the difference in energy and bullet size doesn't seem that much on paper, but the difference in the way the deer react (that I have personally seen) has been considerable. Your experience might be just the opposite, but mine tells me that if the choice is a .30-30 or a .35 for deep woods deer, take the .35! and just FYI, what I carried back then (and sometimes still do) was a Remington 600 in .308 Win. It worked just fine, too! __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

September 3, 2013, 10:25 PM	#30
OkieCruffler Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2001 Location: Denison Texas on the banks of Texhoma Posts: 1,556	As a young pup I had both and usually used the 30-30 on deer because it shot abit flatter. For anything larger than deer I had my 444. Weird, the 35 is the one I miss the most. __________________ John A. Monroe, Never Forgive, Never Forget, Blood Pays Blood

September 3, 2013, 11:30 PM	#31
tahoe2 Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2011 Location: Seattle area Posts: 661	35 Rem / 30-30win I do think heavier bullets are better killers, and I think of both as 175 yard guns or less so bullet drop wouldn't be a concern for me. If I need to shoot farther I'll grab something else from the safe.

September 4, 2013, 10:32 PM	#32
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 967	95 win in 30-03 220g RN, the best lever deer combo ever devised well that's what grandpa thought anyway. Sorry Sorry back on topic...30-30. I guarantee it's killed more dear than the 35. But that's speculation on my part. Thanks to Hornady the 30-30 has entered the modern age with the mono-flex bullets. Its funny how little respect the old 30-30 gets nowadays by the younger guys who shoot deer with 223's? 223 was designed to blow up bushy tailed limb rats. In reality it's a toss up. Both are excellent well proven cartridges. Boomer __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. We're from the government, we're here to help

September 3, 2013, 03:13 PM	#28
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	I have posted this before. It comes from the leverguns articles. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/compare.htm I usually get a rise out of somebody over the list.

September 5, 2013, 09:20 PM	#33
steveNChunter Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Location: Southern Appalachian Mtns Posts: 1,520	.35 rem/.30-.30 Ford/Chevy The winner of the battle depends on who you're talking to. The article ratshooter posted shows the .30-30 with the slightest advantage in pretty much every way. But... I was raised on a .35, so thats what I prefer. To each his own In a recent survey, 100 out of 100 dead deer said they couldn't tell the difference. __________________ DEO VINDICE

September 6, 2013, 12:16 AM	#34
Keg Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2011 Location: Freestone County, Texas Posts: 1,133	30-30.....I prefer 170 gr 1)The ballistics charts don't lie...... 2)better choice of ammo..... 3)way easier to find ammo..... __________________ Hog Hunters never die........They just reload.........

September 6, 2013, 04:45 AM	#35
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	why does anyone even argue this at all? We all know the 30-30 is the superior cartridge in all aspects. Ive shot the calibers side by side. THe 35 remington just sucks. At 50 yards the 200 grain slug simply could not go more then half way through an 8 inch thick oak stump i cut that morning. the 150 grain core lokt from a 30-30 went THROUGH the stump.

September 6, 2013, 12:57 PM	#37
Chuck Dye Senior Member Join Date: June 28, 2002 Location: Oregon-The wet side. Posts: 949	To answer Mr. Eatman, the dominant .35 Remington loads in my Oehler Ballistic Explorer Ammo Library are 200 grain bullets with B.C.s of .193 and .194 at 2080 fps. The software says they are ±3" to 188 yards. The best listed is Hornady's 200 grain, B.C. of .300, at 2225 fps, ±3" to 213 yards. The most commons .30-30 loads are 170 grain bullets, with B.C.s ranging from .250 to .314, at 2200 fps, ±3" from 205 yards to 212 yards. Hornady's 160 grain Evolution load seems best at 2400 fps, ±3" to 231 yards. My range session comparing software predictions to actual holes in targets at measured ranges was a wash: any real differences would have taken many more rounds and much more precise measurements to noodle out. On paper, at least, the critters will not likely notice the differences. __________________ Gee, I'd love to see your data!

September 6, 2013, 09:28 PM	#40
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	I like the .35 Remington in my T.C. contender handgun. Its a handfull.

September 7, 2013, 12:10 AM	#42
Bezoar Junior member Join Date: October 19, 2004 Location: michigan Posts: 578	well in my own humble experience a 30-30 on a deer at 60 yards outdoes what a 35 remington does at 35 yards.

September 7, 2013, 10:53 AM	#44
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	My guess would be shot placement, and that he had the .30-30 sighted in better than he had the .35.

September 7, 2013, 12:32 PM	#45
Boomer58cal Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2013 Location: closer than you think Posts: 967	There's literally no way you or the animal could tell the difference. Shot placement and bullet construction are far larger variables then the difference between these two cartridges. If you use the same bullet design and shot the exact same place on the same animal they would have the exact same effect. Dead deer. The difference between these two rounds is barely distinguishable even with a chronograph and ballistics gel. Boomer __________________ The number one cause of death in the 20th century. 290,000,000 citizens were first disarmed and then murdered by their own governments. This number does not include those killed in war. We're from the government, we're here to help

September 7, 2013, 10:39 PM	#46
ThomasT Senior Member Join Date: January 22, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 2,753	I posted that chart as a sort of a joke. The numbers are so close as to be meaningless in the real world. Whatever that is. So in the end pick whatatever round blows your hair back. My hunting buddies brother in east Tx bought a 35 rem because he thought it was better. He stated later he wished he had got the 30-30 because ammo was easier to find. And that was 20+ years ago. I suppose that that might be the best reason to pick a 30-30 over the 35 remington. I reload and look at componant availability all the time. The 35rem has always been hard to get brass for. Now its just nearly impossible. Bullets are also few and far between. And if the bigger bullet makes a better killer then my 44 mag marlin shooting a 200gr bullet 2000+ fps beats the 35 remington at the same speed. I would have a 35 if ammo was easy to get. But I am so supplied with 30-30 stuff a 35 caliber isn't even on the radar for me. Last edited by ThomasT; September 8, 2013 at 05:53 PM.

September 8, 2013, 08:26 AM	#47
steveNChunter Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2012 Location: Southern Appalachian Mtns Posts: 1,520	I must admit if I didn't have a decent stock of .35 rem brass I would prefer a .30-30 as well. Simply because my beloved family heirloom .35 would have to be a safe queen with no ammo for it. __________________ DEO VINDICE

September 10, 2013, 05:31 PM	#49
skua44 Junior Member Join Date: January 18, 2008 Location: bug-infested E. TX Posts: 11	My first deer rifle was a $50 mod. 8 Rem in .35 back in the 60s. I shot several deer with it and never had one take a step. 200 gr cor-lokts worked well for me. I also have a 30-30 and it is probably just as good but the .35 has a special place in my heart and gunsafe.

September 11, 2013, 11:06 AM	#50
Mystro Senior Member Join Date: November 26, 2004 Location: Central Pa. Posts: 1,528	I don't know why both calibers are not more popular today. The younger guys are really missing out thinking they need a super magnum to kill a whitetail. I don't know if they are hunters or just shooter. Look at how fast this big moose is dumped by a 30-30. Go to 24:20 to see the shot. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6xZsgwPlLM0 __________________ "I'm a good guy with a gun" What do I care if I give up some freedom or rights?....The Goverment will take care of me. This kind of thinking is now in the majority and it should concern you. "Ask not what you can do for your country, but what free entitlements you can bleed from your country"