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July 5, 2013, 10:27 AM | #26 |
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It the owner's preference. Personally I think people should leave their guns unchambered unless they know they are about to use their gun. It's just safer.
Sure, sure. "It takes longer having to rack the slide" but sometimes that's all you need to get rid of a threat. The sound of a gun cocking can be enough to stop certain threats. In case it doesn't, you then have a bullet, in the chamber, ready to use, if you need to. |
July 5, 2013, 11:19 AM | #27 |
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My input....
As posted, many TFLers have various valid points about how to store or secure a home defense sidearm. In general, Id have a fully loaded magazine with a empty chamber(safety ON if that is the design).
Some semi-auto pistols like the Ruger SR45 or standard Hi-Power 9x19mm have a magazine safety; which increases the safety/security. The pistol can't fire if the magazine isn't loaded into the firearm. My new pistol; a M&P .45acp Compact comes w/o the magazine safety feature. I store it in a gun case with a loaded(5 round) magazine. I plan to buy a S&W factory 10rd PVD treated .45acp magazine then use that(fully loaded). My current home defense load is the potent MagSafe SWAT .45acp which comes in 10rd boxes. I may buy some top rated Hornady Critical Duty 220gr +P .45acp later too. Some firearm instructors & tactics trainers advise gun owners to leave a round or two off to reduce the tension on the pistol magazine spring. This, to me, isn't bad advice, but most modern firearms & metal components are engineered to last for long periods. Either way, Id advise any gun owner to check/inspect a home defense weapon often for any problems or damage. A quick check may prevent a lot of issues later, . ClydeFrog |
July 5, 2013, 12:19 PM | #28 | |
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My carry gun for the day and my bedside gun both stay loaded at all times. An unloaded gun is an expensive paperweight.
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July 5, 2013, 01:06 PM | #29 |
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Should you keep a round in the chamber in a house gun?
I can understand the reasoning why many store their HD gun in condition one, but I don't. My glock nearly never has a round in the pipe carry or otherwise unless I'm about to pull the trigger. Because of this, racking the slide has become second nature to me and a natural part of my draw. Also, it takes nearly zero extra time (for me because i practice this way) since I'm on or close to target by the time the slide returns. Heck, if I were to carry in condition one now, I'd probably eject the first shell on the draw. Either way, practice it the same way you store it and call it a day...
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July 5, 2013, 01:53 PM | #30 |
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I would definitely have one in the chamber. I think a lot of it comes down to how you've trained yourself to use your gun. In my hometown there have been a lot of break-ins recently, and the homeowners had to defend themselves with their guns. It really makes a person think when that experience will come calling at your door.
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July 5, 2013, 02:14 PM | #31 |
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Both of my pistols (P95 and CZ75b) have firing pin blocks, as well as relatively heavy double action first pulls.
I live with a couple other people of my age and mental capacity, and my part of the dwelling is always locked tight, and since my roommates know the drill on not doing things like kicking in doors or climbing through windows, I keep one in the chamber of everything except the AK, as I have never trusted those safeties. The P95 has one in the tube, hammer down, safety off (as well as that nifty ruger trigger-pressure activated firing pin disconnect) and the CZ has one in the tube, hammer half, safety off. I figure if I ever run out on both of those and have to use the VEPR, well, hopefully the ridiculously loud slam of the bolt will encourage the seemingly bulletproof burglar to go back to the halfway house. Better than a 308 spontaneously going off in my ear while I sleep, due to earthquake, or some other act of god. I suppose thats why I've always been uncomfortable with traditional 1911's, besides the mag capacity, the idea of carrying cocked and locked with no double action litmus test so to speak, is a recipe for disaster. To wake up in the night and pull the 14lb P95 double action takes full awareness and stock in the situation, while I'd probably end up throwing hot lead at a stray cat in my trash cans if it were simply a matter of a 3 or 4lb single action hair trigger pull. Thats the only reason i keep one in the chamber, because it is double action. Carrying, however, is different. Ask your local sheriff if he has one in the chamber, he will surely cackle. Now, that being said, in many places where tensions are high, but lethal defense is beyond last resort, a chambered round is one of the parts in a confrontation. A border guard I knew in Israel always carried with an empty tube, as the his simple act of producing a gun (he was particular to the standard issue 92's) and racking the slide usually ended the confrontation almost immediately. Also, he said, he didn't want to shoot himself in the ass, which is where most IDF carry their pistols, if they are officers or guards of some sort that is. But for one's bedside table? Especially someone with kids/dogs or one of you old timers that takes Ambien to sleep? Please, don't. Or at least get a DA gun. Theres a reason many cops swear by them, even staple gun DAO's. Last edited by Ludwig Von Mises; July 5, 2013 at 02:19 PM. |
July 5, 2013, 02:15 PM | #32 |
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It won't shoot if it isn't loaded.
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July 5, 2013, 02:24 PM | #33 | ||
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The idea that leaving mags loaded or guns locked back has any effect on the spring is akin to believing that leaving a car on the ground for an extended period of time without moving will eventually wear out the coil/leaf springs. If this were true, we would all need a lift in our driveways for when we went to sleep. Surprising how much installing rich kids coilovers can teach you about unrelated things. I got a Ruger P95 in October, bought 6 extra mags the same day, have had all six of them loaded since the day I got them (MECGAR mags) and I just checked one, spring is near as stiff as the day I got it. The two that have softened are the two mags that came with the gun, which have seen probably 1200 rounds each. However, if you are talking about the tension that interferes with feeding, this is typical of mags that have not been completely broken in. A properly broken in mag (the two that feel the softest of my 8) feeds much more reliably than a stiff, new one, regardless of whether one of them is full or not. Quote:
Last edited by Ludwig Von Mises; July 5, 2013 at 02:31 PM. |
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July 5, 2013, 02:36 PM | #34 | ||
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July 5, 2013, 02:45 PM | #35 |
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If I was going to use a 1911 I would certainly keep it in condition one. For the sole reason of 8 rounds being better then 7.
Now for my cz i'm not to worried about that 16th round because if the first 15didn't do it I'm in a serious predicament.
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July 5, 2013, 02:58 PM | #36 | |
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If you keep your doors locked and hear someone breaking in you'll have more than enough time to rack a slide. If you don't have time then the BG is too close and you'd probably be better suited with a knife anyway. We're talking about a fraction of a second here, and I know in panic situations that counts, but really, if you're cutting it that close where you can't chamber a round before the BG reaches you, then other parts of your home security are flawed and a gun wont be of much help. What you are suggesting is that someone should leave a loaded chambered pistol, with the safety off, within reach of their bed, to be safe from a BG. Any other configuration would "take too long" as you stated before, you wouldn't have enough time to rack the slide. And with a time space so narrow, the BG would probably be within arms reach of your loaded gun, if you didn't hear him break in and don't have time to rack the slide. |
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July 5, 2013, 03:02 PM | #37 |
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It's either loaded and chambered, ready for me to pull the trigger, or it's unloaded and being cleaned. Any condition inbetween begs the question "why?". Is it "safer" not having a round chambered? No. It still won't fire unless you pull the trigger at the very least. In most autos you also have to de-activate one or more safeties.
I don't know what anyone would plan on doing with it that's unsafe with the round chambered that would be any more safe without a round in the pipe. Maybe you just like racking the slide like in the movies. Sgt Lumpy |
July 5, 2013, 03:17 PM | #38 |
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I'm for Condition 1 unless you have kids or immature adults in the house. +1 |
July 5, 2013, 03:46 PM | #39 |
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Simulate a situation by setting your alarm to 3am. Set it to the loudest you can. Next put the 1911 unloaded onto the nightstand. I must emphasize safety and insist you check it twice to make sure its unloaded. Next wake up to the alarm and see how you handle it. Some folks may be able to make it work at 3am while others may fumble. This is why I say revolver.
This is a smart way to help decide whether or not to have a round in the chamber. It's all a matter of training and personal preference; Training first.
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July 5, 2013, 04:04 PM | #40 | |
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July 5, 2013, 04:24 PM | #41 | |||||
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Here is a previous comment of yours. Quote:
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July 5, 2013, 04:45 PM | #42 | |
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July 5, 2013, 05:01 PM | #43 | |
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July 5, 2013, 05:06 PM | #44 |
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Well, there are some considerations that I looked at.
1. Would anyone else have potential access to the firearm? If your spouse/kid/significant other can access it, you might not want to keep a loaded gun in there. (If EVERYONE who has access knows it is kept loaded, and WILL treat it properly, it's less of an issue.) 2. Do you handle the firearm on a regular basis? Loading, unloading, and cleaning are when most negligent discharges seem to occur. Even if you are normally careful, the more you handle a firearm, the greater the chance you will eventually screw up (which can be very bad when there isn't a safe backstop designed for absorbing bullets). 3. How much response time do you need? If you'll have ample warning to any intruders, etc, you will likely have time to rack the slide. If a short distance and only 1-2 barriers are between you and a threat, you might not want to HAVE to use both hands to get the weapon ready (or remember to do so). |
July 5, 2013, 05:09 PM | #45 | |
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July 5, 2013, 05:24 PM | #46 | |||
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July 5, 2013, 05:38 PM | #47 |
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True story.
As a teenager (many, many years ago) my house gun was my Smith and Wesson model 19. I was nervous about keeping it loaded, so it was empty on the nightstand with several speedloaders next to it. One night, I woke up out of a sound sleep to the alarming noises of a dog fight outside. I was still half asleep and grabbed the revolver, but no speed loader and rushed outside to find my lab/chow cross getting pinned by the neighbors pitbull*. If not for the fact that my other dog broke out the door behind me and defended her "brother", Southwest would have died that night. Ever since I've keep whatever is on the night stand ready to go. The only one I have to do anything to be ready to shoot is the 1911 which I kept with one in the chamber, hammer down, which apparently is frowned upon these days. *the neighbors pitbull was actually the reason I had unsupervised access to loaded guns. The dog attacked pretty much every other dog in the area and went after people (including another neighbors 6 year old) Everyone was armed to the teeth. To be honest, I'm suprised the dog survived until those jerks moved out.
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July 5, 2013, 06:33 PM | #48 |
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If it really concerns you with saftey but you want the round in the chamber perhaps you can look at other options for home defense..i personally keep my ruger p95 cocked and locked with one in the chamber..my gun is da/sa so i have the extra saftey feature of having a heavy trigger pull and can also keep my saftey on it takes me a split second to flip the saftey up and pull the trigger and i feel just as safe with it like that as i would without a round chambered..so perhaps looking for a gun with added saftey features would make u feel better..but as stated earlier a 1911 while it may look intimidating to handle is actually much safer than it is given credit for..
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July 5, 2013, 07:46 PM | #49 |
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It is your choice, but ...
I own 1911's because I wanted a sem-auto pistol that could be safely carried or left on the bedside table "cocked and locked" the way John Moses Browning designed it and because I don't like long double action trigger pulls in a semi-automatic!
Since the OP indicated he wants to keep his pistol in a safe, his 1911 has 3 safeties which have to be negotiated before the pistol is fired by anyone. |
July 5, 2013, 08:29 PM | #50 |
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Sounds like the diversity is falling into a personal preference breakdown. I'm most comfortable with condition 3 for both a Sig 9mm w/ 17 in the magazine, or a Draco (AK Pistol) With 30 rounds (and Safety off).
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