.223 difficult to load?

YosemiteSam357 · June 20, 2004, 02:01 AM

I have yet to discover the joys of (re)loading myself, but am preparing to take the plunge due to new rifle fever, and having finally gotten the point that I need to tune the loads to the rifle to get the best accuracy.

A co-worker recently told me that he found .223 difficult to load, due to case size. Claims he screws up (crushes?) nearly as many cases as he gets usable rounds. He doesn't have this problem in other, larger calibers. Is this a common issue with loading .223, or he doing something wrong, or simply needs more experience?

I'm trying to decide what caliber to get my next gun in, and since I'm going to have to load for it I don't want to make it difficult on myself. I was originally thinking of going .223 because there's so much commercial ammo available, but if I'm going to have to load anyway, I figure I might as well get something with a little more oomph, like a .243.

Answers/thoughts/suggestions?

-- Sam

yankytrash · June 20, 2004, 06:01 AM

Personally, I've found that 223 is a little problematic. However, this is usually due to using older military cases and flat base bullets. Probably one of the better cases (no pun intended) for annealling brass.

Crimped primers breaking pins and improperly champhered & flared necks from once-fired casings are my bain with the 223. Once I've got past that first reload though, they're a breeze.

Quantrill · June 20, 2004, 07:01 AM

I have loaded .223 for several years. Crimped in primers are a small but overcomable problem. I have crushed a few cases (in the beginning) but setting up the dies correctly will solve that problem. I do use "small base" dies for cartridges for use in the AR15. Bottom line is that the .223 is really no problem once it is properly set up. Quantrill

rwilson452 · June 20, 2004, 09:31 AM

If your going to use mil surplus cases and need to decap those crimped in primers, I suggest these products:

Lee Decapping die Part # 90292, About $10
or
Lee Decapper & Base for 22 it's part # 90103, About $4

And a primer pocket reamer. RCBS has one but I don't have the part number handy. Again as I recall it's under $10

once you get that primer out and ream the primer pocket, no more primer pocket problems.

I chuck up the ream in a cordless drill and go after it. Been there done this with a great many .45ACP cases. It's slow and boring work but you only need to do it once per case.

BobCat45 · June 20, 2004, 11:51 AM

YosemiteSam357,

The .223 is widely used in NRA Highpower competition and a lot of people load for it with little or no problem. I'm spoiled - got tired of trimming 100 cases to length every month (really 88 - 80 round match with 2 sighters 4 times) so I buy sized, primed, once-fired ex-mil brass from River Valley Ordnance Works (rvow.com or rvo.com?) for $70 per thousand. Primer crimps are removed and I think they use Winchester small rifle primers.

Anyway, rwilson is quite right about removing the primer crimps - and you only have to do it once per case, since you will not re-crimp - and you might find the boat-tail bullets, such as the Sierra 69 g bthp used for Highpower at 200 and 300, to be easier to seat than flat-base.

I like Varget in the .223, but a lot of people use H335 and 4895.

Have fun! I think you will like the .223 since it has very little recoil, can be an extremely accurate round, and there is quite a lot of cheap - either surplus or quasi-surplus, like the Winchester white box - ammo on the market cheap, and ex-military brass is cheap too.

I only wish .45 ACP brass was cheap like it was when the 1911 was the issue service pistol. Oh, well - 9 mm brass is cheap now, and the 9 is fun to shoot, too.

Purrrs,
BobCat

YosemiteSam357 · June 20, 2004, 04:16 PM

Thanks for the input. This is going to be an interesting experience, to say the least. I've been shooting a long time, but have avoided reloading for a variety of reasons.

As long as I've got your attention, I might as well ask this one too: Is .243 going to be any more effective/accurate (we're talking targets here, not game) at 600 yards than .223? I realize it's a stretch for either, but I really don't want to get up into .308 territory due to recoil - I'm going to be using this thing a lot, and I tend to be a recoil wimp. There's a weekly 600 yard shoot at one of the ranges I go to, and I'd like to participate once in a while, but the majority of my shooting will be at 100 and 200 yards, where the .223 will be more than sufficient.

Thanks again,

-- Sam

ArmaLube · June 20, 2004, 09:20 PM

Sam,

You didn't mention any particular kind of rifle you might prefer. The AR15 represents a firearm category that is virtually a unique philosophy unto itself. If you haven't already chosen a rifle, there are many informative references that deal with the merits of the AR15. If you were to choose this rifle (and you should consider the idea seriously), that would put you into the 5.56mm/.223 arena. Having loaded some thousands of rounds of .223, I have encountered no problems whatsoever. The AR15s, as you know, combine such virtues as large capacity magazines, excellent shooting accuracy, semi-automatic fire, great durability, and exceptional rifle configuration flexibility. Take a look at some of the fine AR15 web sites and forums.

On the Internet, the AR15 could almost be classified as a 'religion'. It truly has countless followers and devout believers. There may even be an AR15 Heaven.

Military brass is low cost, but for not a lot more expense you can get excellent quality commercial .223 brass. It signficantly simplifies the taks related to primer processing. When you proceed to selection of reloading equipment, you will want to choose a press with considerable care. I a partial to high quality turret presses, but as you may know there are some absolutely fine progressives available too. The various other gadgets also should be chosen carefully, since some of them are slightly expensive and they are long lasting. Choose correctly, and you can stick with your selections almost permanenty. The gadget array includes powder measure, powder scale, case trimmer, loading dies, shell holders, precision caliper, maybe bullet casting for handguns, and more. Reloading the .223 poses no unusual problems.

Because of the hugeness of the field, the great variety of supporting supplies and accessories, and the exceptional performance obtainable, I would highly recommend your getting an AR15. Brand choice is a personal matter, but Bushmaster is one to seriously consider. Surely, you will want to visit http://www.ar15.com, http://www.bushmaster.com/welcome.asp and http://communities.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/.

My favorite reloading press: Redding T-7

Good luck with the important decisions that lie ahead for you. The best approach is to take it slow and do it right. You will surely find the ultimate results to be truly rewarding.

rwilson452 · June 20, 2004, 10:13 PM

I think he mentioned he might be hunting with it. In some states, such as my own, hunting with a semi-automatic is a no-no. Many states also have limitations on mag capacity. I agree that Bushmaster makes a fine AR. frankly if I was to throw that much money on a "Fun-Gun" it would be more like a M1A. It would also double as my "bug-out" long gun. Along with my 1911 and Mossberg 12 ga. As always these choices are personal choices, your mileage may vary.

ArmaLube · June 21, 2004, 06:55 AM

rwilson452:

You are correct in mentioning state laws. They always deserve very close attention with respect to hunting and firearm possession restrictions. As always, my comments (regardless of manner of presentation) are offered as 'food for thought'.

Ultimately, all choices obviously rest with the individual. However, through sharing of ideas, opinions, and experience, some will be better able to develop their personal choices. This process is, in fact, the reason why many participants are here.

Various views are certainly welcome and worthy of consideration.

BobCat45 · June 21, 2004, 10:23 AM

Sam,

You asked, "I might as well ask this one too: Is .243 going to be any more effective/accurate (we're talking targets here, not game) at 600 yards than .223?"

Well, now I'm out of my depth. The Service Rifle shooters do shoot the AR-15 in .223 at 600 yards with excellent results. They load 77 or 80 grain bullets, and use a one turn in 8" of faster (one turn in 7.5 or so) barrel. The Bushmaster AR-15 can be bought with a one in 8 barrrel, I have one on order from the CMP.

So far, our club only has a 200/300 yard range - we're building the 600 yard now. So - I'm limited in what I know first-hand since I've been shooting a 1:9 AR-15 with 69 g Sierra bthp bullets at 200 and 300.

All the good shooters tell me that 600 is no problem with the AR-15, and refer me to http://www.nationalmatch.us/ for example.

I think the phrase I want is "mission statement" - only you can decide what you're going to use this rifle for, so only you can decide what caliber you want. I think you will find a lot of information and lore about shooting the .223 at 600 yards, but if you are going to hunt you might want a .243 just because it is more appropriate for more kinds of game than the .223 is.

Anyway - Have fun!

Purrrs,
BobCat

MADISON · June 26, 2004, 07:41 AM

Is a .223 difficult to load?
Yes, it can be difficult to load. There are several barrel twists out ther and, you must find out what your rifle's twist is and load for that twist.

I have a Ruger Ultra-Lite in 223 that I had a 3 1/2 inch group, with a 55 grain bullet, since I bought it in 1989. I solved the problem by doing the following:
Verifying the twist
Start a tight patch; being sure the jag is tight on the rod.
Mark the rod with a felt tip to indicate Top Dead Center and a starting point.
Advance the rod until it comes back to Top Dead Center.
Measure the distance traveled from the start mark. That is the rifling twist, one turn in xx inches.
A lot easier than trying to estimate the amount of twist in a foot.
I called Ruger and they told me it was a 1-10 twist. It has a 1-12 twist with a pencil thin barrel.
I was using 27.5 grains of Win. 748.
I called Sierra...They told me to:
55 grain...21.5 grains of Win. 748
60 grain...25.0 grains of Win. 748
You can cover their groups with a dime. The secret is to cool the barrel and keep it cool.

June 20, 2004, 02:01 AM	#1
YosemiteSam357 Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 231	.223 difficult to load? I have yet to discover the joys of (re)loading myself, but am preparing to take the plunge due to new rifle fever, and having finally gotten the point that I need to tune the loads to the rifle to get the best accuracy. A co-worker recently told me that he found .223 difficult to load, due to case size. Claims he screws up (crushes?) nearly as many cases as he gets usable rounds. He doesn't have this problem in other, larger calibers. Is this a common issue with loading .223, or he doing something wrong, or simply needs more experience? I'm trying to decide what caliber to get my next gun in, and since I'm going to have to load for it I don't want to make it difficult on myself. I was originally thinking of going .223 because there's so much commercial ammo available, but if I'm going to have to load anyway, I figure I might as well get something with a little more oomph, like a .243. Answers/thoughts/suggestions? -- Sam

June 20, 2004, 06:01 AM	#2
yankytrash Senior Member Join Date: April 17, 2001 Location: Farnham, Va Posts: 2,183	Personally, I've found that 223 is a little problematic. However, this is usually due to using older military cases and flat base bullets. Probably one of the better cases (no pun intended) for annealling brass. Crimped primers breaking pins and improperly champhered & flared necks from once-fired casings are my bain with the 223. Once I've got past that first reload though, they're a breeze. __________________ Right turn, Clyde.

June 20, 2004, 09:31 AM	#4
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	crimped primer pockets If your going to use mil surplus cases and need to decap those crimped in primers, I suggest these products: Lee Decapping die Part # 90292, About $10 or Lee Decapper & Base for 22 it's part # 90103, About $4 And a primer pocket reamer. RCBS has one but I don't have the part number handy. Again as I recall it's under $10 once you get that primer out and ream the primer pocket, no more primer pocket problems. I chuck up the ream in a cordless drill and go after it. Been there done this with a great many .45ACP cases. It's slow and boring work but you only need to do it once per case.

June 20, 2004, 09:20 PM	#7
ArmaLube Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2002 Posts: 120	Sam, You didn't mention any particular kind of rifle you might prefer. The AR15 represents a firearm category that is virtually a unique philosophy unto itself. If you haven't already chosen a rifle, there are many informative references that deal with the merits of the AR15. If you were to choose this rifle (and you should consider the idea seriously), that would put you into the 5.56mm/.223 arena. Having loaded some thousands of rounds of .223, I have encountered no problems whatsoever. The AR15s, as you know, combine such virtues as large capacity magazines, excellent shooting accuracy, semi-automatic fire, great durability, and exceptional rifle configuration flexibility. Take a look at some of the fine AR15 web sites and forums. On the Internet, the AR15 could almost be classified as a 'religion'. It truly has countless followers and devout believers. There may even be an AR15 Heaven. Military brass is low cost, but for not a lot more expense you can get excellent quality commercial .223 brass. It signficantly simplifies the taks related to primer processing. When you proceed to selection of reloading equipment, you will want to choose a press with considerable care. I a partial to high quality turret presses, but as you may know there are some absolutely fine progressives available too. The various other gadgets also should be chosen carefully, since some of them are slightly expensive and they are long lasting. Choose correctly, and you can stick with your selections almost permanenty. The gadget array includes powder measure, powder scale, case trimmer, loading dies, shell holders, precision caliper, maybe bullet casting for handguns, and more. Reloading the .223 poses no unusual problems. Because of the hugeness of the field, the great variety of supporting supplies and accessories, and the exceptional performance obtainable, I would highly recommend your getting an AR15. Brand choice is a personal matter, but Bushmaster is one to seriously consider. Surely, you will want to visit http://www.ar15.com, http://www.bushmaster.com/welcome.asp and http://communities.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite/. My favorite reloading press: Redding T-7 Good luck with the important decisions that lie ahead for you. The best approach is to take it slow and do it right. You will surely find the ultimate results to be truly rewarding. Last edited by ArmaLube; June 21, 2004 at 08:53 AM.

June 20, 2004, 10:13 PM	#8
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	Ar-15? I think he mentioned he might be hunting with it. In some states, such as my own, hunting with a semi-automatic is a no-no. Many states also have limitations on mag capacity. I agree that Bushmaster makes a fine AR. frankly if I was to throw that much money on a "Fun-Gun" it would be more like a M1A. It would also double as my "bug-out" long gun. Along with my 1911 and Mossberg 12 ga. As always these choices are personal choices, your mileage may vary.

June 20, 2004, 07:01 AM	#3
Quantrill Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 1999 Location: Arizona, USA Posts: 725	I have loaded .223 for several years. Crimped in primers are a small but overcomable problem. I have crushed a few cases (in the beginning) but setting up the dies correctly will solve that problem. I do use "small base" dies for cartridges for use in the AR15. Bottom line is that the .223 is really no problem once it is properly set up. Quantrill

June 20, 2004, 11:51 AM	#5
BobCat45 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: East Bernard, TX Posts: 523	YosemiteSam357, The .223 is widely used in NRA Highpower competition and a lot of people load for it with little or no problem. I'm spoiled - got tired of trimming 100 cases to length every month (really 88 - 80 round match with 2 sighters 4 times) so I buy sized, primed, once-fired ex-mil brass from River Valley Ordnance Works (rvow.com or rvo.com?) for $70 per thousand. Primer crimps are removed and I think they use Winchester small rifle primers. Anyway, rwilson is quite right about removing the primer crimps - and you only have to do it once per case, since you will not re-crimp - and you might find the boat-tail bullets, such as the Sierra 69 g bthp used for Highpower at 200 and 300, to be easier to seat than flat-base. I like Varget in the .223, but a lot of people use H335 and 4895. Have fun! I think you will like the .223 since it has very little recoil, can be an extremely accurate round, and there is quite a lot of cheap - either surplus or quasi-surplus, like the Winchester white box - ammo on the market cheap, and ex-military brass is cheap too. I only wish .45 ACP brass was cheap like it was when the 1911 was the issue service pistol. Oh, well - 9 mm brass is cheap now, and the 9 is fun to shoot, too. Purrrs, BobCat

June 20, 2004, 04:16 PM	#6
YosemiteSam357 Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2002 Location: Oregon, USA Posts: 231	Thanks for the input. This is going to be an interesting experience, to say the least. I've been shooting a long time, but have avoided reloading for a variety of reasons. As long as I've got your attention, I might as well ask this one too: Is .243 going to be any more effective/accurate (we're talking targets here, not game) at 600 yards than .223? I realize it's a stretch for either, but I really don't want to get up into .308 territory due to recoil - I'm going to be using this thing a lot, and I tend to be a recoil wimp. There's a weekly 600 yard shoot at one of the ranges I go to, and I'd like to participate once in a while, but the majority of my shooting will be at 100 and 200 yards, where the .223 will be more than sufficient. Thanks again, -- Sam

June 21, 2004, 06:55 AM	#9
ArmaLube Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2002 Posts: 120	rwilson452: You are correct in mentioning state laws. They always deserve very close attention with respect to hunting and firearm possession restrictions. As always, my comments (regardless of manner of presentation) are offered as 'food for thought'. Ultimately, all choices obviously rest with the individual. However, through sharing of ideas, opinions, and experience, some will be better able to develop their personal choices. This process is, in fact, the reason why many participants are here. Various views are certainly welcome and worthy of consideration.

June 21, 2004, 10:23 AM	#10
BobCat45 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: East Bernard, TX Posts: 523	Sam, You asked, "I might as well ask this one too: Is .243 going to be any more effective/accurate (we're talking targets here, not game) at 600 yards than .223?" Well, now I'm out of my depth. The Service Rifle shooters do shoot the AR-15 in .223 at 600 yards with excellent results. They load 77 or 80 grain bullets, and use a one turn in 8" of faster (one turn in 7.5 or so) barrel. The Bushmaster AR-15 can be bought with a one in 8 barrrel, I have one on order from the CMP. So far, our club only has a 200/300 yard range - we're building the 600 yard now. So - I'm limited in what I know first-hand since I've been shooting a 1:9 AR-15 with 69 g Sierra bthp bullets at 200 and 300. All the good shooters tell me that 600 is no problem with the AR-15, and refer me to http://www.nationalmatch.us/ for example. I think the phrase I want is "mission statement" - only you can decide what you're going to use this rifle for, so only you can decide what caliber you want. I think you will find a lot of information and lore about shooting the .223 at 600 yards, but if you are going to hunt you might want a .243 just because it is more appropriate for more kinds of game than the .223 is. Anyway - Have fun! Purrrs, BobCat

June 26, 2004, 07:41 AM	#11
MADISON Senior Member Join Date: January 1, 2000 Location: Roanoke, Virginia Posts: 2,678	.223 difficult to load? Is a .223 difficult to load? Yes, it can be difficult to load. There are several barrel twists out ther and, you must find out what your rifle's twist is and load for that twist. I have a Ruger Ultra-Lite in 223 that I had a 3 1/2 inch group, with a 55 grain bullet, since I bought it in 1989. I solved the problem by doing the following: Verifying the twist Start a tight patch; being sure the jag is tight on the rod. Mark the rod with a felt tip to indicate Top Dead Center and a starting point. Advance the rod until it comes back to Top Dead Center. Measure the distance traveled from the start mark. That is the rifling twist, one turn in xx inches. A lot easier than trying to estimate the amount of twist in a foot. I called Ruger and they told me it was a 1-10 twist. It has a 1-12 twist with a pencil thin barrel. I was using 27.5 grains of Win. 748. I called Sierra...They told me to: 55 grain...21.5 grains of Win. 748 60 grain...25.0 grains of Win. 748 You can cover their groups with a dime. The secret is to cool the barrel and keep it cool.