Sorting Brass

[arizona98tj]

I agree with what 45_auto said in his last couple of posts. I've been reloading since the 70's and aside from high powered hunting loads, I do not sort, trim, weigh, count # of reloads, etc. my handgun brass.

But....to those that are adamant on sorting their pistol brass for typical range drills and such.....are you also working up specific loads for that brand of brass? If you have 9mm brass in R-P, Speer, Winchester, and S&B, you are saying you have worked up individual loads for each even though you are using the same bullet, powder, and primer for all of them?

So, for 9mm range practice loads, you might have something like:
R-P 5.0 gr Unique 115 gr RN Berry MFG plated
Win 5.1 gr Unique 115 gr RN Berry MFG plated
S&B 5.0 gr Unique 115 gr RN Berry MFG plated
Speer 4.9 gr Unique 115 gr RN Berry MFG plated

Of course, if you are working up loads as above, then one assumes you are also making adjustments in the recipe for the pistol too, correct? The 3" sub-compact is using a worked up load that is most likely different than the 5" full sized, correct?

[1Victor30]

It's all academic to me....I have everything I need for reloading 9mm except one minor detail...powder!! Can't find it anywhere. About ready to sell my reloading gear and stick to my black powder shooting. No problem getting stuff for that.

[schmellba99]

UncleNick -

Thanks for the physics lesson.

What you took a long time to do is point out that the opportu ity cost of the time spent versus sorting brass, for the vast majority of people, is not time well spent.

Additionally, different lots of brass from even the same manufacturer will have variables in metallurgy of the brass, quality of the fabrication and variables in tolerances. Go look at the thread concerning new Winchester brass for an example.

Sometimes I forget that on this board there are those that do not understand speaking in somewhat generalities and take everything too literal.

Mt entire argument is that while sorting by headstamp may be necessary for an individual's OCD in the reloading arena, it is not a requirement to achieve more than acceptable levels of accuracy - especially when your level of accuracy is determined by minute of man instead of 1/4 inch increments. And if you are not keeping track of individual headstamps, lots within those headstamps and have customized loads for every variable in your brass inventory, generally speaking, your time sorting by headstamp in the name of accuraccy is not time that is necessary (or in my opinion well spent).

That is all to each their own, however.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

It really depends on what you want in your reloads. I sort my brass by head stamps when I'm loading what I consider to be good bullets. Hornady, Sierra, Speer ect. Sometimes I find bulk 250 packs of fmj and when I do I just load them up in mixed brass and go play.

Mostly what he said. I chose a good 100 for HP and left the rest for lead target ammo.

[Unclenick]

Schmellba,

Statistics rather than physics, but I take your point that it adds complexity that takes the fun out of shooting for some, but is part of the fun for others. That will always be the case. Different strokes, and all that.

On review, I see I left a few points out of my post. The way target rings are scored, if a bullet scratches the next higher ring, you get the higher point. In the course of a match it is common to have more than one shot that almost, but not quite, scratches the next higher scoring ring, and for which even a tiny reduction in group size would gain you a point or another X. For that reason the targets acts like a statistical improvement detector, with the difference showing up in your average scores over time and many targets.

That explains why the National Match shooters could find a difference in the small improvement made by military ammo pull consistency. While you are correct that a gun shooting 2 to 4 moa doesn't normally benefit from small ammunition improvements, the main problem is with seeing that difference in single groups. But when you put hundreds of rounds down range over the course of several matches over several days, that changes because you then have enough opportunities for the improvement to randomly cause the odd scoring ring to be scratched. A hundredth of an inch improvement may add a couple X's to a High Master score, and that can be the difference between first and third place at the Nationals.

You are correct that simply sorting headstamps will not gain you all the desired bullet pull consistency. That requires you to keep brass together by lot and by load history as well as by headstamp.

For match shooting I buy new, never-loaded .45 Auto brass in thousands from Starline or from Top Brass when they have it available. They're both about twice as consistent as other domestic brands I've measured. Each brass lot gets loaded together and used together and then reloaded together in rotation until it has been lost to the range gods or worn out and scrapped. With light target loads in .45 Auto I've had up to 50 target level reloads from a lot of brass this way. By that time necks are splitting during reloading, which means loading redos, over third of them have been lost, and they are about 0.025" shorter than when they were new. That's when I scrap the rest.

At a match the RO always gives a call to police brass. Everyone who shoots bullseye matches puts their mark on their pistol case heads with Sharpie's or Magic Markers, and range etiquette demands that any piece you pick up that belongs to someone else be returned to them. So, sorting happens in real time on the line where you have to look at the heads to give other shooters their brass back anyway. After that, just accumulate your brass in the same bag until you're ready to clean it for reloading.

Sorting brass by headstamp alone does have one positive effect I can think of, and that is to tend to keep neck wall thickness more consistent, so crimps are more consistent. Winchester and Remington and Federal all seem to have kept their case neck designs for a long time. Back in the 80's I quit collecting R-P brass for the .45 Auto because it was so thin near the mouth that after two or three reloadings, work hardening made it springy enough that the Lyman carbide sizing die I used at the time could not resize it enough to hold a bullet. Bullets would just fall in and there I would be with a primed case I couldn't load. Any number of other folks on this board have reported the same thing with R-P in this and other auto pistol chamberings.

Subsequently, I've found the Dillon dies to be tighter and that R-P is usually sized adequately by them. But that doesn't address the fact a thinner wall will produce lower crimp tension. So I finally started to keep R-P again more recently, and I toss it the bin with range foundlings for loading on a Dillon.

On the other side of the coin, I once had some Euro-brass that was too thick at the neck and reloads would not chamber. Apparently the manufacturer use 0.449" or 0.450" bullets and sized his necks accordingly. I don't recall the headstamp. I tossed it long ago.

For practice, plinking, and non-precision shooting, I'm with you, and don't segregate brass or fail to collect range foundlings for those purposes. Indeed, for shooting plates, dueling trees, presentation practice, moving and shooting courses, and so on, I prefer to use odd, old, or other expendable brass so I can lose it in the weeds and not fret about it. I put a tarp out to catch it when the situation allows, but that's usually just shooting by myself.

[Jim243]

For practice, plinking, and non-precision shooting, I'm with you, and don't segregate brass or fail to collect range foundlings for those purposes. Indeed, for shooting plates, dueling trees, presentation practice, moving and shooting courses, and so on, I prefer to use odd, old, or other expendable brass so I can lose it in the weeds

Sounds good to me, the only exception to that is center fire rifle cases. Since I purchase 500 brand new cases for each rifle (bolt action), they are all segregated for that rifle and no I do not mix brands when purchasing cases.

Jim

[Unclenick]

Yep. Rifle is a different animal just because it starts with higher precision in the first place, so smaller error sources make more significant changes in group size.