More powdercoat testing

[Beagle333]

Today I was trying to coat a rifle bullet completely. It is very hard to stand the long skinny rifle bullets and spray them, and I wanted them to be 100% covered and smooth as a mirror, so I decided to try a version of wire tying that I had seen somebody else doing with wadcutters, only they used thick wire. I bought some 26ga copper wire for stringing beads and looped that in the lube groove of a few bullets to test out. This allows the bullets to get energized by the current and make the powder stick well, and also suspend them and allow complete coverage, except down inside one lube groove. I know somebody will ask, so I'll say it now.... No, it doesn't matter that there is no powder inside one lube groove, because it does not rub the barrel.
Powdercoating is only there for friction reduction and really only needs to be on the surfaces that touch the barrel as it travels, but it's just easier to coat the whole thing than try to spray just the outside of the grooves.

Here is the test rig as loaded before baking. The wire is as thin as a hair, but it is coated with fluffy powder in this pic and you can see it very easily.


And some short gas checked .270 bullets:


And some taller .270 bullets. The ones one the left are plain based, right side is gas checked.
I used .270 because they are almost impossible to balance when spraying.


I'm pretty happy with it! I got 100% coverage of everything that could possibly need coated. I got this particular wire off fleabay for 2.53 cents a foot.
So the copper wire involved in the three rows shown here is about 10 cents at most. I figure that with a couple of bigger & better racks (plenty of room for two easily, in this oven) I should be able to get about 150 bullets in there at a time, but I'll know better when I perfect my looping and tying method. I might end up with 30-40 cents worth of copper per load, so I should come out around 4 coated bullets per penny in my wire cost.
But I don't shoot a hundred and fifty .270 bullets in a year... so that's not really expensive. 'Less than that if I can find copper cheaper than this particular roll I got on fleabay.

This is not intended for mass production and is just to test out a way to coat a small quantity very well. It takes a little time in tying them in a row and suspending them too. I just strung them up while I was watching part of a football game, so it isn't really that intense and I won't be doing this often.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Are you still powder coating using the tumble method? I was considering it and wonder if it is still worth doing.

[Beagle333]

Tumbling is worth doing... but I do already own the Harbor Freight powdercoat gun, so I like the coat that I get from spraying.

I don't think it shoots any differently. It only looks better on internet forums before loading them.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Roger that! Thanks Beagle!

[mikld]

Great idea, thanks. I had a similar problem with some rifle bullets I wanted to PC. My particular bullets were gas check design so I drilled the bottom of a cake pan for a press fit of the gas check shank. The bullets would then stay upright, but, alas the bases were bare so I checked them. Your method will prolly work better...

[chris in va]

Curious, can powder coated bullets be pushed to standard jacketed velocities?

Thinking of getting a bolt in 223 but hate the idea of buying expensive jacketed.

[Beagle333]

Curious, can powder coated bullets be pushed to standard jacketed velocities?

I don't know. I don't push them that fast, but a lot of folks are trying to match jacket and one fellow even says he has beat every jacketed round he can find.... but you'd have to read up on it on the coatings forum. That's where most of the testing (that I am aware of) is going on.

Here's a link to one thread, and you might just read around in that section for more threads. There is some promising data toward the end of it though, posts #10 and 11.
Sample thread

[skizzums]

when I do my 300blk bullets, I just lay em on the side on the non-stick foil. they aren't the prettiest, but the functions fantastic and are as accurate as any of the jacketed 200+ heavyweights at 1100fps. I have also shot 128gr .309 with the LEE x39 mold with smokes black PC @ 1780FPS with no leading and no smoke. I do get left with PC dust in the barrel that comes out with the first wipe with the snake. I don't know how fast you can go before the PC fails, but I haven't gotten there yet. still waiting to run the .223 semi with the PC, I swear i'll get to it one of these weekends.

if your interested in the .223, there is a guy here that does it a lot, ill find a link to a couple of his threads. you really should gas-check it though if you want to get fast enough to be accurate with that little bullet. you will have a lot more leeway using a boltgun though and not have to push more than 2100-2200 to get a decent load.

here's one, just look at his thread history and you'll find some more. give him a PM nd he would probably be happy to answer any questions, hes a helpful guy. good luck
http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553705
^^read^^

[bangerjim]

There are those on other forums that have pushed PC to over 2900+ FPS (with GC). I have never gone over ~1500 myself. Some think of the PC as a jacket. Although I PC everything I shoot in subsonic, I still lean toward FMJ's for full 30-30, 30-06 and 223 loads and do not fully trust the PC as a full protective jacket.........yet.

Coating 223's is.........well...........a PITA! Those little buggers are best done with BBDT and dumped on hardware cloth, baked, and then the ones that have bad lay marks, just re-melt them. I do NOT try to GC those tiny little things. The make good plinkers in my Mossy bolt action. A good 22LR substitute.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I picked up a PC gun today. Just wondering what tip you found works best?

Also, about how many bullets per lb? I know it uses more spraying.

[Beagle333]

I don't use the tip at all.... those are really for spraying large flat surfaces, like a motorcycle fender or gas tank. You will want the smallest spray pattern you can get, with is best with no tip. It'll still be a 4-5" spray pattern.

I don't know how many bullets a pound will coat..... a lot! I have only used about 3-4 pounds of powder since I started.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I don't use the tip at all.... those are really for spraying large flat surfaces, like a motorcycle fender or gas tank. You will want the smallest spray pattern you can get, with is best with no tip. It'll still be a 4-5" spray pattern.

I don't know how many bullets a pound will coat..... a lot! I have only used about 3-4 pounds of powder since I started.

awesome! thanks.

[hartcreek]

I think that I will be doing some casting soon so I might as well see if PC does as good as my hard cast with allox only on the lube grooves.

I am thinking that I should be able to PC and load 30-06 just as easily.

The 9mm that I have PC are only loaded to 1100 fps but they sure are slippery.

[skizzums]

the great thing about pc and rifles is, unlike alox, it doesn't need to be the perfect size or alloy to prevent leading. I couldn't prevent leading in my 300blk to save my life with alox. tried everything including hard-casting. that is what made me finally pc, now every gun gets it everytime


these are yours hart, I didn't clean all the alox off, just gave them a good wipe, hence the black spots

[bangerjim]

PC, now that it is catching on, is proving to skeptics that you can forget about that really hard lead, cast much softer, PC, and stretch your valuable alloys! Many hundreds/thousands are PC'ing with greate reported success.

I certainly have found that to be true. I have not gone to 5Bhn subsonics yet, but I have read of those that do for plinking. Next on my "to do" list.

I aim for 10-12 Bhn for most all bullets. Never any leading since I switched to PC over a year and a half ago. And worrying about exact barrel to bullet size seems to kinda go away. I have shot "undersized" slugs with PC and did not see any leading as you would expect with bare greased lead bullets.

I for one, LOVE it!

[Wreck-n-Crew]

PC, now that it is catching on, is proving to skeptics that you can forget about that really hard lead,

Amen! My first coated bullets were on purchase. I loaded them in some 9mm full power loads using Red dot and shot 500 rounds before I was %100 sold. When I decided to cast I had PC in mind or I would never have went through the trouble of casting!

I believe in a few more years that coated bullets will be %85 or more of the market.

[skizzums]

not sure why never thought of thi, but with all the used appliance places on th side of the roads, I am just going to find a full size stove/oven and put it in my garage. I can cok PC in the big oven and use the stovetop for making ingots. will make life way easier, and shouldn't need a PID for the oven part. would also coming in handy for water annealing. could be hndy for all kinds of things

[Beagle333]

That's a great idea! First, I gotta find a used garage place and get one of those!

[bangerjim]

Agree! I have waaaaay too much "stuff" in my shops to squeeze in an old electric kitchen stove. Great idea if you have the room.....and the 220V ~30A circuit.

More power to those that have extra room. I will have to stick to my lil' convection toaster oven in front of my back loading shop.

With the large cavity oven, you will probably find temps are easier to hold due to more thermal mass in a loaded oven full of bullets! If you are REEEEEAL lucky, you will find an old convection kitchen stove. I have one (our old perfectly functioning glass top yet now "wrong color" for our kitchen) sitting out by our garage that I have no way of powering and will probably just haul it off to Good Will.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

Yeah I was thinking of it just no place to put it or I would run the 220. Can always get a few toaster ovens and some extra trays though!

I plan to pick up another toaster oven . Have extra trays made from cookie sheets from wal-mart.

[Beagle333]

Craigslist! It's full of convection toasters. Sometimes even Evilbay.

(I got one from both places.)

[skizzums]

I was craigslist shopping today, a decent full-size stove/oven about 50-75$. I still have a nearly empty garage with the laundry room in the attached basement, so 220 will be easy. I like idea of having 4 burners as well for keeping molds hot etc.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I was craigslist shopping today, a decent full-size stove/oven about 50-75$. I still have a nearly empty garage with the laundry room in the attached basement, so 220 will be easy. I like idea of having 4 burners as well for keeping molds hot etc.

You got it made then! Don't forget mini beer fridge! Well for when your done casting anyhoot...lol

[Beagle333]

mini?

[bangerjim]

I DID find room for mid-sized fridge/freezer in my backyard loading shop for "adult refreshing beverages"! A must-have on those hot AZ days. Or cold AZ days, too!