Imperial Sizing Wax and petroleum jelly

Eppie · August 13, 2013, 09:40 AM

Hi All,
This morning while doing some neck turning I noticed a little container of Vaseline Petroleum Jelly on my work bench. Upon closer examination I found a remarkable resemblance to Imperial sizing wax. Considering it's available at Walmart for $2 for a 4 oz jar, it's less than 1/5 the price of the sizing wax.

Has anyone used petroleum jelly instead of sizing wax?

Clark · August 13, 2013, 10:06 AM

I know from calculating max torque on screws that wax is much less friction than oil or grease. And oil or grease are much lower friction than dry threads.

So the max torque without snapping off the screw in tension has three levels:
1) Wax, the least max torque.
2) Oil and grease, the medium max torque.
3) Dry threads, the highest max torque.

To make your head spin with a world of lube technology, go to
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Eppie · August 13, 2013, 01:07 PM

Hi Clark,
Thanks for responding. The link you provided is very interesting but it's a bit like the guy that asks "what time is it?" and the guy tells him how to build a clock. Afterwards the guy still didn't know what time it was.

Your answer implies that the petroleum jelly may be a good substitute. I guess I will have to find out on my own.

dahermit · August 13, 2013, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Your answer implies that the petroleum jelly may be a good substitute. I guess I will have to find out on my own.

When you do, let us know if you have discovered the wonderful world of a stuck case. While you are experimenting, put a little dab of the Petroleum Jelly in a primer to see if it kills it. Lastly, you may as well report back to us what way you discovered as to how to remove the PJ from the cases after sizing. I love it when some guy assumes all the risk of experimenting and I get the benefits.

spacecoast · August 13, 2013, 01:30 PM

Quote:

When you do, let us know if you have discovered the wonderful world of a stuck case. While you are experimenting, put a little dab of the Petroleum Jelly in a primer to see if it kills it. Lastly, you may as well report back to us what way you discovered as to how to remove the PJ from the cases after sizing. I love it when some guy assumes all the risk of experimenting and I get the benefits.

Give the guy some credit for at least asking the question. There are kinder ways to suggest that it may not be an equivalent substitute.

Eppie · August 13, 2013, 02:13 PM

Guess what guys? I just resized 25 cases and not a single issue. It was even smoother than Imperial sizing wax. Boy, am surprised.

A couple of ounce can cost $10 + s&h at Sinclair's a 4 oz. jar of generic petroleum jelly cost $1.48 at Walmart.

Learned something new today. Enjoy.

zxcvbob · August 13, 2013, 02:39 PM

Try using Kiwi Mink Oil (boot dressing.)

Colorado Redneck · August 13, 2013, 03:04 PM

Glad this worked for you! Have you wiped the stuff off of your brass yet? RCBS case lube comes off pretty well by just wiping each case for a few seconds. If Vasoline comes off good, that is a great thing to know.

Eppie · August 13, 2013, 03:24 PM

The Vaseline comes off very nicely with paper towels, no different than Imperial wax.

I have heard about mink oil, and I use it on letter goods, especially when I was into horses. Now I just use it to soften letter jackets and shoes. But I'm pretty sure petroleum jelly is even cheaper than mink oil.

dahermit · August 13, 2013, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Give the guy some credit for at least asking the question. There are kinder ways to suggest that it may not be an equivalent substitute.

It was not meant to be taken seriously...did you not see the smiley face? I had no idea whether it would work or not and was in fact, interested to know if it would. Lighten up, no one elected you "kindness police".

spacecoast · August 13, 2013, 09:27 PM

Quote:

It was not meant to be taken seriously...did you not see the smiley face?

It came across as condescending, smiley face notwithstanding.

Heavy Metal 1 · August 14, 2013, 08:38 AM

considering how many brass a little can of Imperial will treat it is not worth the risk of a damaged die to use anything else unless IMO.

Eppie · August 14, 2013, 06:17 PM

Quote:

considering how many brass a little can of Imperial will treat it is not worth the risk of a damaged die to use anything else unless IMO.

I don't get your rational, how is petroleum jelly going to damage a die? I can't imagine a single way that could happen. Please tell me.

zxcvbob · August 14, 2013, 06:23 PM

Quote:

I don't get your rational, how is petroleum jelly going to damage a die? I can't imagine a single way that could happen. Please tell me.

If petrolatum is not as good a lube as you think it is, and you get a case galled-up inside the die. Not sayin' that will happen, but if it does that's how it will damage your die.

Eppie · August 14, 2013, 06:32 PM

Quote:

galled-up inside the die

Does that me a stuck case? I still don't see how that damages a die, unless you don't a stuck case kit and try to chisel it out.

Heavy Metal 1 · August 14, 2013, 08:04 PM

If your brass gets stuck inside your die and your stuck case remover fails to get it out (it happened to me) you are then needing to do whatever it takes to get it out and the die can become damaged. I messed one up that way. The petroleum jelly itself isn't going to damage the die of course. Not worth the few cents you will save. IMO if a $9.00 can of wax is too expensive then perhaps reloading itself is too expensive of a hobby.

It is good that folks explore alternatives to help save $, but there is a risk.

Your own sig line says it all right there!

Eppie · August 14, 2013, 08:54 PM

Talk about far fetched. This is total nonsense.

Heavy Metal 1 · August 14, 2013, 09:11 PM

I see no need to be insulting when people are trying to help you. A stuck case remover doesn't always get the case out and if you don't believe that I don't frankly care. I am glad Vaseline works for you. Happy trails dude.

cdoc42 · August 15, 2013, 07:05 AM

Vaseline is (thick) petroleum jelly, also known simply as petrolatum. You may want to try Light Mineral Oil, which is also known as Light Liquid Petrolatum. There is also a "heavier" Mineral Oil, so look for the light stuff. I mixed 10% Light LP with 70% alcohol, put it in a small manual spray bottle and that works well as a case lube.

I find it easier to clean the lube (whatever you use) after sizing in the case cleaner rather than the time-consuming wiping them all off with a rag or towel. But then, it depends on how many cases you've sized.

dahermit · August 15, 2013, 08:16 AM

Eppie, did you experience any lube dents? As sticky and thick as Petroleum jelly is, it seems to me that it would be very easy to get too much on the case...a concern for me when I was loading long, straight cases like the .444 Marlin and 45-70.
Nowadays, I hardly use any case lube. Carbide dies for handgun, Lee Collet (neck)dies for rifle. For .30 Carbine (also Carbide), I use a spray-on (Hornady One-Shot), that turns to a powder and seems to fall off by itself after sizing.

Eppie · August 15, 2013, 08:58 AM

Hi dahermit,
you're a smart one. Carbide dies are the way to go in my book, it avoids the whole lube issue, unfortunately they aren't any for .308. I've written to Redding about making some and their answer is that they would be too expensive for bottle type cases like .308. I'm using the Redding National Match dies and that means full length resizing and lubrication.

Quote:

did you experience any lube dents?

No, I didn't. It really was just like using Imperial wax. I really do think its the same exact thing. I'm talking about the jar not the squeeze tubes that my wife uses to remove her eye make-up (that may be the same, but that's not what I used).

I've read that many people use Hornady One Shot and it works great for them. It didn't for me, and got several stuck cases. But I may have not waited long enough to let it dry. Once I started using Imperial I never tried anything else because it worked. Hornady did send me two cans of Unique after I sent their die back to have a case extracted, but I haven't used it yet because I'm still using my can of Imperial. So, I'm not really in short supply of case lube.

I just noticed the similarity and thought I let other guys know, because I've seen many posts of people looking for an easily available and inexpensive case lube. PJ (petroleum jelly) does that and after I run out of the other case lube it will probably become my main case lube.

stnosc · August 15, 2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eppie

Carbide dies are the way to go in my book, it avoids the whole lube issue, unfortunately they aren't any for .308

There are carbide dies made for .308, but guess what?

You still have to lube them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eppie

It really was just like using Imperial wax. I really do think its the same exact thing.

Nope.

jaguarxk120 · August 15, 2013, 01:50 PM

The Dillon 308 sizing die costs $139.95.

stnosc · August 15, 2013, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaguarxk120

The Dillon 308 sizing die costs $139.95.

Which is why, IMO, they're not worth it if you still have to lube.

cdoc42 · August 16, 2013, 07:11 AM

A wax is not just hardened or solidified petrolatum. Their chemical compositions differ.

August 13, 2013, 09:40 AM	#1
Eppie Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 802	Imperial Sizing Wax and petroleum jelly Hi All, This morning while doing some neck turning I noticed a little container of Vaseline Petroleum Jelly on my work bench. Upon closer examination I found a remarkable resemblance to Imperial sizing wax. Considering it's available at Walmart for $2 for a 4 oz jar, it's less than 1/5 the price of the sizing wax. Has anyone used petroleum jelly instead of sizing wax? __________________ "Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.” -Vladimir Lenin "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson (An early warning to Obama care)

August 13, 2013, 10:06 AM	#2
Clark Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 1999 Location: WA, the ever blue state Posts: 4,678	I know from calculating max torque on screws that wax is much less friction than oil or grease. And oil or grease are much lower friction than dry threads. So the max torque without snapping off the screw in tension has three levels: 1) Wax, the least max torque. 2) Oil and grease, the medium max torque. 3) Dry threads, the highest max torque. To make your head spin with a world of lube technology, go to http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/ __________________ The word 'forum" does not mean "not criticizing books." "Ad hominem fallacy" is not the same as point by point criticism of books. If you bought the book, and believe it all, it may FEEL like an ad hominem attack, but you might strive to accept other points of view may exist. Are we a nation of competing ideas, or a nation of forced conformity of thought?

August 13, 2013, 01:07 PM	#3
Eppie Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 802	Hi Clark, Thanks for responding. The link you provided is very interesting but it's a bit like the guy that asks "what time is it?" and the guy tells him how to build a clock. Afterwards the guy still didn't know what time it was. Your answer implies that the petroleum jelly may be a good substitute. I guess I will have to find out on my own. __________________ "Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.” -Vladimir Lenin "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson (An early warning to Obama care)

August 13, 2013, 02:13 PM	#6
Eppie Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 802	Guess what guys? I just resized 25 cases and not a single issue. It was even smoother than Imperial sizing wax. Boy, am surprised. A couple of ounce can cost $10 + s&h at Sinclair's a 4 oz. jar of generic petroleum jelly cost $1.48 at Walmart. Learned something new today. Enjoy. __________________ "Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.” -Vladimir Lenin "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson (An early warning to Obama care)

August 13, 2013, 02:39 PM	#7
zxcvbob Senior Member Join Date: December 20, 2007 Location: S.E. Minnesota Posts: 4,720	Try using Kiwi Mink Oil (boot dressing.) __________________ "Everything they do is so dramatic and flamboyant. It just makes me want to set myself on fire!" —Lucille Bluth

August 13, 2013, 03:04 PM	#8
Colorado Redneck Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2008 Location: Northeast Colorado Posts: 1,993	Glad this worked for you! Have you wiped the stuff off of your brass yet? RCBS case lube comes off pretty well by just wiping each case for a few seconds. If Vasoline comes off good, that is a great thing to know.

August 13, 2013, 03:24 PM	#9
Eppie Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 802	The Vaseline comes off very nicely with paper towels, no different than Imperial wax. I have heard about mink oil, and I use it on letter goods, especially when I was into horses. Now I just use it to soften letter jackets and shoes. But I'm pretty sure petroleum jelly is even cheaper than mink oil. __________________ "Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.” -Vladimir Lenin "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson (An early warning to Obama care)

August 14, 2013, 08:38 AM	#12
Heavy Metal 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 247	considering how many brass a little can of Imperial will treat it is not worth the risk of a damaged die to use anything else unless IMO. __________________ The blood runs free, the rain turns red, give me the wine, you keep the bread.

August 14, 2013, 08:04 PM	#16
Heavy Metal 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 247	If your brass gets stuck inside your die and your stuck case remover fails to get it out (it happened to me) you are then needing to do whatever it takes to get it out and the die can become damaged. I messed one up that way. The petroleum jelly itself isn't going to damage the die of course. Not worth the few cents you will save. IMO if a $9.00 can of wax is too expensive then perhaps reloading itself is too expensive of a hobby. It is good that folks explore alternatives to help save $, but there is a risk. Your own sig line says it all right there! __________________ The blood runs free, the rain turns red, give me the wine, you keep the bread.

August 14, 2013, 08:54 PM	#17
Eppie Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2010 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 802	Talk about far fetched. This is total nonsense. __________________ "Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.” -Vladimir Lenin "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson (An early warning to Obama care)

August 14, 2013, 09:11 PM	#18
Heavy Metal 1 Senior Member Join Date: January 17, 2012 Posts: 247	I see no need to be insulting when people are trying to help you. A stuck case remover doesn't always get the case out and if you don't believe that I don't frankly care. I am glad Vaseline works for you. Happy trails dude. __________________ The blood runs free, the rain turns red, give me the wine, you keep the bread.

August 15, 2013, 07:05 AM	#19
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	Vaseline is (thick) petroleum jelly, also known simply as petrolatum. You may want to try Light Mineral Oil, which is also known as Light Liquid Petrolatum. There is also a "heavier" Mineral Oil, so look for the light stuff. I mixed 10% Light LP with 70% alcohol, put it in a small manual spray bottle and that works well as a case lube. I find it easier to clean the lube (whatever you use) after sizing in the case cleaner rather than the time-consuming wiping them all off with a rag or towel. But then, it depends on how many cases you've sized.

August 15, 2013, 08:16 AM	#20
dahermit Senior Member Join Date: October 28, 2006 Location: South Central Michigan...near Posts: 6,501	Eppie, did you experience any lube dents? As sticky and thick as Petroleum jelly is, it seems to me that it would be very easy to get too much on the case...a concern for me when I was loading long, straight cases like the .444 Marlin and 45-70. Nowadays, I hardly use any case lube. Carbide dies for handgun, Lee Collet (neck)dies for rifle. For .30 Carbine (also Carbide), I use a spray-on (Hornady One-Shot), that turns to a powder and seems to fall off by itself after sizing.

August 15, 2013, 01:50 PM	#23
jaguarxk120 Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Michigan Posts: 2,619	The Dillon 308 sizing die costs $139.95.

August 16, 2013, 07:11 AM	#25
cdoc42 Senior Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 1,687	A wax is not just hardened or solidified petrolatum. Their chemical compositions differ.

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