44Mag load info

Markk9 · May 18, 2000, 10:22 PM

I have a question about max load using WIN296 and Hornady 300 HP/XTP. In Hornady’s loadbook they list the max load as 19.9 grains with an OAL of 1.60. With an OAL of 1.60 the bullet is seated to the second cannelure. I’m using a Dan Wesson 44V, it is a longer cylinder, I can load the same bullet to the first cannelure with an OAL of 1.75. How much more powder can I safely add? I know with the extra space I can add powder, but I just don’t have any idea of were to stop.

Thanks,
Markk9

SKR · May 19, 2000, 01:16 AM

The amount of empty space in a case has no relationship to the max load for that caliber. I generally recommend around 22.5 grains of W-296 with a 300 grain bullet...BUT...I also recommend that loading stop when the first signs of pressure show-up, and that charge be reduced 5%.

Fred J. Drumheller · May 19, 2000, 07:13 AM

SKR, en contrare. Seating the bullet further out increases case volume and reduces pressure, given the same powder charge!

Please consider the .30-06 v. .308. With equal bullet weights, the .30-06 requires circa 15% more powder than the .308 to attain equal velocity, albeit @ lower pressure.

Yr. Obt. Svnt.

------------------
Fred J. Drumheller
NRA Life
NRA Golden Eagle

SKR · May 19, 2000, 08:34 AM

When conparing the .30-06 and the .308 you are comparing two totally different cartridges, like apples and oranges.

Very invalid!

Now, if you load your '06 to a recommended maximum load, and you still have room for another 10 grains fo whatever powder you are using, because you seat that bullet out a little further, YOU CANNOT ADD THAT ADDITIONAL 10 GRAINS. PERIOD!

He indicated that he is using a "maximum" load in his .44, and he has increased his OAL which results in more empty case space. He wanted to know how much more porwder he can cram into that case, simple because there is room.

That is also very invalid!

tonyz · May 19, 2000, 09:46 AM

SKR

Has Hit it on the nose. Just because there is
room in the case for more power dosn't mean you can load it to the full mark. YOU Should never Exceed the max Powder load. If Your life and your gun mean anything to ya.

Stay Safe Use only the recommended loads.

Tony Z Master Blaster

------------------
www.vote.com
also for gun accessorys. http://gungoodies.com

[This message has been edited by tonyz (edited May 19, 2000).]

May 19, 2000, 10:00 AM

I'm going to have to side with Fred on this one. The .308 vs .30-06 example may not be a good one, but the concept is correct. Note also that I'm not suggesting (and I don't think Fred is either) that you can fill the space with powder just because it's there. We're saying that for a given powder charge, seating the bullet further out of the case will result in less pressure.

For a better example, refer to the Speer reloading manual, edition 12. They make a 300-grain bullet for the .44, and they have 2 separate sections for the .44 magnum cartridge - one in the handgun section, one in the rifle.

Their 300-grainer has 2 cannelures - the rear one is for revolver OAL; the forward one is for OAL for lever action rifles. Although the expected velocity from the rifle is higher (naturally), the maximum load is (working from memory here) approximately 2 grains less than the maximum shown for the handgun's longer OAL. Allowable pressure is the same for both.

Another example? Doesn't bullet setback sometimes cause KaBooms? Why?

SKR · May 19, 2000, 09:26 PM

Jeff, as I have already posted, the bullet with two cannelures is because that bullet is suitable for several different cartridges. A .44 Remington Magnum has standard specifications, regardless of what type of firearm you are using...a rose by any other name is still a rose, and a .44 Magnum is a .44 Magnum!

The reason for two different loadings is because most handguns cannot take the pressures as well as long arms. Period!

I have a friend who bought a new car. The gas tank held 18 gallons. The owner's manual stated that when refilling the gas tank to stop after the "automatic" pump clicked off twice. He decided he could do better, so he filled his tank REAL slow! He then bragged about how he had put 20 gallons in his 18 gallon tank, and the manufacturer must be crazy. What he didn't realize was the capacity of the overflow tube and the evaporator canister! That extra 2 gallons of gas (at $1.75 per gallon here) only went up the tube, into the canister and slowly evaporated. Unfortunately firearms do not have an overflow tube, or a slow evaporation canister!

When either you firearm or your manual says "MAX" that is exactly what it means, unless you have unlimited finances, and are a member of the feline family...

[This message has been edited by SKR (edited May 19, 2000).]

May 19, 2000, 10:17 PM

Quoting from the Speer reloading manual, 12th edition, from the 44 Magnum (Rifle) section (emphasis original):

"The 300 grain bullet has two cannelures for crimping. THE REAR CANNELURE IS INTENDED FOR REVOLVERS ONLY. The loads listed for the carbine were develped with the bullet crimped in the FRONT cannelure. This sets the proper overall length for reliable function in repeating rifles.

Rifle ammo for the 44 Magnum operates at the same pressure as revolver ammo-36,000 psi. These loads are within that limit."

With their 300 grain bullet:

Rifle: OAL 1.585", max load 20.5 grains H110

Revolver: OAL 1.665", max load 22.5 grains H110

Same bullet, same pressure; more powder in the load with the bullet seated out farther.

SKR · May 20, 2000, 01:06 AM

Jeff...well if they say so...but that kind of defeats the idea of carrying a sidearm and a rifle in the same caliber...I load my .44's with 25.8 grains of H-110 and a 240 grain bullet. I don't have to keep two different staches of .44 Mag ammo that way...

Fred J. Drumheller · May 20, 2000, 08:51 AM

Gentlemen, My point is, if you seat a bullet further out, you are reducing the pressure. I believe in seating a bullet as far out as the cylinder/magazine allows. If this exceeds SAAMI standards, but it works in my gun, so be it. The pratice usually improves accuracy, and it definitely reduces pressure!

Speaking of reducing pressure, in general, using a lead bullet reduces pressure, as does using a moly coated bullet. If you choose to increase the powder charge to return to the additional pressure, THAT'S YOUR BUSINESS.

Yr. Obt. Svnt.

------------------
Fred J. Drumheller
NRA Life
NRA Golden Eagle

May 20, 2000, 11:54 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SKR:
Jeff...well if they say so...but that kind of defeats the idea of carrying a sidearm and a rifle in the same caliber...I load my .44's with 25.8 grains of H-110 and a 240 grain bullet. I don't have to keep two different staches of .44 Mag ammo that way...

[/quote]

I'll agree with that.

WESHOOT2 · May 21, 2000, 08:38 AM

Markk9,

Best advice is chrono loads in your gun (it's the only one that matters!).

Work up SLOWLY, and try to correlate increases in powder to similar increases in chrono'ed velocity.

When an increase in powder does not give a corresponding increase in velocity you KNOW you're getting to a point where you should stop.

Also stop for ANY OTHER excessive-pressure signs...

Safety first. And accuracy beats velocity (except at 'contact' range).

------------------
"All my ammo is factory ammo"

May 18, 2000, 10:22 PM	#1
Markk9 Member Join Date: March 18, 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 91	I have a question about max load using WIN296 and Hornady 300 HP/XTP. In Hornady’s loadbook they list the max load as 19.9 grains with an OAL of 1.60. With an OAL of 1.60 the bullet is seated to the second cannelure. I’m using a Dan Wesson 44V, it is a longer cylinder, I can load the same bullet to the first cannelure with an OAL of 1.75. How much more powder can I safely add? I know with the extra space I can add powder, but I just don’t have any idea of were to stop. Thanks, Markk9

May 19, 2000, 01:16 AM	#2
SKR Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 68	The amount of empty space in a case has no relationship to the max load for that caliber. I generally recommend around 22.5 grains of W-296 with a 300 grain bullet...BUT...I also recommend that loading stop when the first signs of pressure show-up, and that charge be reduced 5%.

May 19, 2000, 07:13 AM	#3
Fred J. Drumheller Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 90	SKR, en contrare. Seating the bullet further out increases case volume and reduces pressure, given the same powder charge! Please consider the .30-06 v. .308. With equal bullet weights, the .30-06 requires circa 15% more powder than the .308 to attain equal velocity, albeit @ lower pressure. Yr. Obt. Svnt. ------------------ Fred J. Drumheller NRA Life NRA Golden Eagle

May 19, 2000, 08:34 AM	#4
SKR Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 68	When conparing the .30-06 and the .308 you are comparing two totally different cartridges, like apples and oranges. Very invalid! Now, if you load your '06 to a recommended maximum load, and you still have room for another 10 grains fo whatever powder you are using, because you seat that bullet out a little further, YOU CANNOT ADD THAT ADDITIONAL 10 GRAINS. PERIOD! He indicated that he is using a "maximum" load in his .44, and he has increased his OAL which results in more empty case space. He wanted to know how much more porwder he can cram into that case, simple because there is room. That is also very invalid!

May 19, 2000, 09:46 AM	#5
tonyz Senior Member Join Date: January 29, 2000 Location: Wa Posts: 922	SKR Has Hit it on the nose. Just because there is room in the case for more power dosn't mean you can load it to the full mark. YOU Should never Exceed the max Powder load. If Your life and your gun mean anything to ya. Stay Safe Use only the recommended loads. Tony Z Master Blaster ------------------ www.vote.com also for gun accessorys. http://gungoodies.com [This message has been edited by tonyz (edited May 19, 2000).]

May 19, 2000, 10:00 AM	#6
Jeff, CA Guest Posts: n/a	I'm going to have to side with Fred on this one. The .308 vs .30-06 example may not be a good one, but the concept is correct. Note also that I'm not suggesting (and I don't think Fred is either) that you can fill the space with powder just because it's there. We're saying that for a given powder charge, seating the bullet further out of the case will result in less pressure. For a better example, refer to the Speer reloading manual, edition 12. They make a 300-grain bullet for the .44, and they have 2 separate sections for the .44 magnum cartridge - one in the handgun section, one in the rifle. Their 300-grainer has 2 cannelures - the rear one is for revolver OAL; the forward one is for OAL for lever action rifles. Although the expected velocity from the rifle is higher (naturally), the maximum load is (working from memory here) approximately 2 grains less than the maximum shown for the handgun's longer OAL. Allowable pressure is the same for both. Another example? Doesn't bullet setback sometimes cause KaBooms? Why?

May 19, 2000, 09:26 PM	#7
SKR Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 68	Jeff, as I have already posted, the bullet with two cannelures is because that bullet is suitable for several different cartridges. A .44 Remington Magnum has standard specifications, regardless of what type of firearm you are using...a rose by any other name is still a rose, and a .44 Magnum is a .44 Magnum! The reason for two different loadings is because most handguns cannot take the pressures as well as long arms. Period! I have a friend who bought a new car. The gas tank held 18 gallons. The owner's manual stated that when refilling the gas tank to stop after the "automatic" pump clicked off twice. He decided he could do better, so he filled his tank REAL slow! He then bragged about how he had put 20 gallons in his 18 gallon tank, and the manufacturer must be crazy. What he didn't realize was the capacity of the overflow tube and the evaporator canister! That extra 2 gallons of gas (at $1.75 per gallon here) only went up the tube, into the canister and slowly evaporated. Unfortunately firearms do not have an overflow tube, or a slow evaporation canister! When either you firearm or your manual says "MAX" that is exactly what it means, unless you have unlimited finances, and are a member of the feline family... [This message has been edited by SKR (edited May 19, 2000).]

May 19, 2000, 10:17 PM	#8
Jeff, CA Guest Posts: n/a	Quoting from the Speer reloading manual, 12th edition, from the 44 Magnum (Rifle) section (emphasis original): "The 300 grain bullet has two cannelures for crimping. THE REAR CANNELURE IS INTENDED FOR REVOLVERS ONLY. The loads listed for the carbine were develped with the bullet crimped in the FRONT cannelure. This sets the proper overall length for reliable function in repeating rifles. Rifle ammo for the 44 Magnum operates at the same pressure as revolver ammo-36,000 psi. These loads are within that limit." With their 300 grain bullet: Rifle: OAL 1.585", max load 20.5 grains H110 Revolver: OAL 1.665", max load 22.5 grains H110 Same bullet, same pressure; more powder in the load with the bullet seated out farther.

May 20, 2000, 01:06 AM	#9
SKR Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 68	Jeff...well if they say so...but that kind of defeats the idea of carrying a sidearm and a rifle in the same caliber...I load my .44's with 25.8 grains of H-110 and a 240 grain bullet. I don't have to keep two different staches of .44 Mag ammo that way...

May 20, 2000, 08:51 AM	#10
Fred J. Drumheller Retired Screen Name Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 90	Gentlemen, My point is, if you seat a bullet further out, you are reducing the pressure. I believe in seating a bullet as far out as the cylinder/magazine allows. If this exceeds SAAMI standards, but it works in my gun, so be it. The pratice usually improves accuracy, and it definitely reduces pressure! Speaking of reducing pressure, in general, using a lead bullet reduces pressure, as does using a moly coated bullet. If you choose to increase the powder charge to return to the additional pressure, THAT'S YOUR BUSINESS. Yr. Obt. Svnt. ------------------ Fred J. Drumheller NRA Life NRA Golden Eagle

May 20, 2000, 11:54 AM	#11
Jeff, CA Guest Posts: n/a	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SKR: Jeff...well if they say so...but that kind of defeats the idea of carrying a sidearm and a rifle in the same caliber...I load my .44's with 25.8 grains of H-110 and a 240 grain bullet. I don't have to keep two different staches of .44 Mag ammo that way... [/quote] I'll agree with that.

May 21, 2000, 08:38 AM	#12
WESHOOT2 Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 1999 Location: home on the range; Vermont (Caspian country) Posts: 14,324	Markk9, Best advice is chrono loads in your gun (it's the only one that matters!). Work up SLOWLY, and try to correlate increases in powder to similar increases in chrono'ed velocity. When an increase in powder does not give a corresponding increase in velocity you KNOW you're getting to a point where you should stop. Also stop for ANY OTHER excessive-pressure signs... Safety first. And accuracy beats velocity (except at 'contact' range). ------------------ "All my ammo is factory ammo"