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Old July 26, 2010, 06:42 AM   #1
teeroux
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Taurus Circuit Judge

Okay ready for a mind boggler.

It it legally considered a rifle or is it a shotgun?

If a shotgun what would be the legal way (if one exist) of pluging to hunt migratory birds if someone would so choose?

I somehow doubt snapcaps are gonna do the trick for the game wardens.
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Old July 26, 2010, 09:23 AM   #2
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They are .45 caliber rifles. ....they have a rifled bore just like any other .45Colt/.410bore gun.

They wouldn't be legal for Fed. migratory because if you plug two of the 5 chambers you could readily remove the plugs in the field.

In PA they also wouldn't be legal for other small game/birds because of the same reason above.
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Old July 26, 2010, 09:53 AM   #3
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I bet they would be lousy for bird hunting anyway. .410 with a rifled barrel, probably not ideal. Just pulling that out of my you-know-what.

-Internet bird hunter, no experience

I have to say though, it looks like it would be fun to shoot. I guess there's a lot of options out there for shooting 45LC rifles, but not too many revolvers. Plus you could shoot 410 shells for fun also.
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Old July 26, 2010, 10:35 AM   #4
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Quote:
I somehow doubt snapcaps are gonna do the trick for the game wardens.
It depends how long it takes him to stop laughing. Do you really think anyone is going to shell out $2.50 per round for non-toxic migratory bird loads for the Circuit Judge?
FYI, IIRC, the Judge revolver is sold by Taurus and the Circuit Judge rifle is made by Taurus, but sold under the Rossi brand.
Quote:
I bet they would be lousy for bird hunting anyway.
That's a bet I think you'd win.
I suspect it will be a long time before we hear of anyone winning a 25-straight skeet patch with a Circuit Judge.
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Old July 26, 2010, 10:44 AM   #5
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I would call that gun a novelty and should not be used for anything other then fun shooting.

If your wanting to shoot birds buy a nice 20g or 12g.

If you want to shoot large game with a lever action buy a Marlin, Winchester or Browning.
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Old July 26, 2010, 11:09 AM   #6
Magnum Wheel Man
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looks like they are going to offer 2 different models, a rifled version, & a smooth bore version...

http://www.rossiusa.com/pdf/rossi_ad_circuitjudge.pdf

I do quite alot of rabbit population "culling" with my Contender 16" 45 Colt / .410 ... Thompson Center has a screw in straight rifled choke tube to use with .410 shells shat corrects the doughnut pattern you get from shooting shot out of a rifled barrel...

I think WILDALASKA on this forum has / knows a guy making something similar for the "Judges" if that could be encorporated onto this "rifle" it would make it a pretty versitile "survival gun... even better if they started making them in stainless
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Old July 26, 2010, 11:03 PM   #7
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It is a moot point I'm sure, but the way to make plugs for the judge is to sandwich a 1.5 inch long, .44 cal rubber plug between two .40 cal washers with a nut on one end, and a thin bolt running through the whole thing. I'd use brass components.

When you insert the plug in a chamber, then tighten the nut, the rubber will swell and the plug will be firmly lodged in the chamber. Loosen the nut to remove. I suspect leaving them in for months would invite rust.

Same principal as a boat's drain plug. I do not own a Judge, but I own a boat.
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Old July 27, 2010, 05:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
I suspect it will be a long time before we hear of anyone winning a 25-straight skeet patch with a Circuit Judge.
I always thought it would be fun to try as an end of the day gun, but with a 9410
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Old July 27, 2010, 06:05 AM   #9
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In California it's considered a "short barreled" shot gun. 18' is the minimum legal length of a barrel. The judge falls a bit short of that so they are considered as illegal shot guns.
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Old July 27, 2010, 06:18 AM   #10
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I don't think so with the rifled barrel model... TC went through this with the 45 / .410 Contender... it should be considered a rifle ( my 16" Contender is legal ( as a rifle ) even with .410 shells, at 16"...

hmm... makes me wonder if "it" ( my Contender... or the Circuit Judge for that matter ) would be legal ( not that I would hunt big MN deer ) to use during deer shotgun season, if the ATF considers them a rifles ??? for that matter... I wonder about "bird" hunting if they are technically considered "rifles" by the ATF ???
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Old July 27, 2010, 08:25 AM   #11
teeroux
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I bet they would be lousy for bird hunting anyway.
Yep well I know a few folks who have shot ducks on the bayou with a .410.

If you want a for instance on why someone would shoot a .410 over something larger, say for argument you took your nephew on his first hunt out of a pirouge and the judge was all you had to lend him over your only 12ga.


Quote:
It is a moot point I'm sure, but the way to make plugs for the judge is to sandwich a 1.5 inch long, .44 cal rubber plug between two .40 cal washers with a nut on one end, and a thin bolt running through the whole thing. I'd use brass components.
Yep I think that would make the definition of a plug. You would just have to make sure the rubber didn't reach the extractor and it would be good to go.
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Old July 27, 2010, 08:47 AM   #12
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I just checked the T/C site, the Contender 45/410 barrels in 12 and 14-in are not available for sale in Calif. IIRC, it's been that way for some time.
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Old July 27, 2010, 08:58 AM   #13
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but the 16" barrels are ??? ( which is still a short barreled shotgun ) if classified as a shotgun ( needing to be 18" without a permit for shotguns )
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Old July 27, 2010, 09:21 AM   #14
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I didn't find a current listing for a 16-in 45/410 barrel. The T/C Encore pistol has a 15-in 45/410 barrel and a footnote,
NOTE: .45/.410 Barrels NOT for sale in California.
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Old July 27, 2010, 10:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Okay ready for a mind boggler. It it legally considered a rifle or is it a shotgun?
It's not really a mind boggler. If it's rifled, it's a rifle. If it's not, it's a shotgun.
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Old July 28, 2010, 06:19 PM   #16
teeroux
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Shotguns with rifled slug barrels are still shotguns.

Besides that they are advertised as rifled shotguns(may answer the legal definition) and there is a model that is smooth bore with a briley choke and shotshell only?

I would put money on it that if you are hunting birds with a judge your gonna get fined for not having a plug.

http://www.rossiusa.com/pdf/rossi_ad_circuitjudge.pdf
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Old July 28, 2010, 07:43 PM   #17
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If it has a barrel from the maker under the legal limit, it is a handgun; over it it is a rifle.

The Judge is a handgun that fires 45 Colt, that also happens to chamber a 410 shotshell............it does nothing well but folks like it (like a pump)
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Old July 28, 2010, 10:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1-oz
The Judge is a handgun that fires 45 Colt, that also happens to chamber a 410 shotshell............it does nothing well but folks like it (like a pump)
My friend, isn't the world full of impractical, but "I gotta have one" firearms?
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Old July 29, 2010, 05:58 AM   #19
teeroux
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Quote:
The Judge is a handgun that fires 45 Colt, that also happens to chamber a 410 shotshell
That is not the gun under discussion here.

Circuit Judge by Rossi.

http://www.rossiusa.com/pdf/rossi_ad_circuitjudge.pdf
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Old July 29, 2010, 07:30 AM   #20
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The circuit judge is a rifle that fires 45 Colt and also happens to chamber the 410 - the principle hasn't changed - just the added stock and longer barrel. With either gun, they are considered centerfire metallic cartridge guns. The shotshell is an added "feature"
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Old July 29, 2010, 07:43 AM   #21
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I think they are skewing the lines alot here... the smooth bore that has screw in chokes & only fires shot shells is obviously not a rifle...

maybe by offering the version as a shotgun, they can then offer the rifled barrel as a rifled shotgun that also fires 45 Colt ???
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Old July 29, 2010, 08:52 AM   #22
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the smooth bore that has screw in chokes & only fires shot shells is obviously not a rifle...
Very true, and with that revolver chamber, don't get caught hunting doves or other migratory birds that fall under Fed rules. I wouldn't want to shoot 410 out of the rifled barrel - that pattern would doughnut terribly
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Old July 29, 2010, 10:42 AM   #23
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The Judge revolver is marketed as a personal defense handgun. It's assumed you'll load buck, not bird, shot in your .410s. The Circuit Judge long gun seems to be designed to do the same thing. The 410 shotgun only version has the same high target sights as the 45/410 rifle/shotgun version. Obviously, neither is suited to wing shooting.

Seeing the stock's proportions, I'm reminded of the saying that an elephant is a horse designed by a committee. Of course, the Circuit Judge may fill some now vacant niche for use in a cowboy competitive event.

Hey, wadda I know, I was skeptical when the T/C Contender was first introduced -- it certainly isn't the failure I'd anticipated. Who knows, we may soon find ourselves knee deep in custom Circuit Judge parts and accessories.

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Old July 29, 2010, 10:57 AM   #24
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the Circuit Judge may fill some now vacant niche for use in a cowboy competitive event.
I agree - I think that will be the main market for this, although, I am sure there will be some who buy it for HD and as a fun gun
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Old July 29, 2010, 11:09 AM   #25
Magnum Wheel Man
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... well I know I wasn't impressed with the junky chinese replica lever action I tried playing with before... & ended up trading back in...

the Revolver is interesting... if it is solid, & works...

my concern would be the "blast shield" if it works, it keeps you from burning your arm on the barrel cylinder gap... but there are so many ways it could "not work"... you could still burn your arm, if not positioned just right... it could direct the gasses & ash, etc. back towards the shooters face ( which it looks like it could do )... it could also bind up after several / 100 rounds ( like a cowboy action shooter would do ) or someone trying to actually use it on clay's etc.

I really like the idea, & could see chambering it for some other purpose, but it must shoot good & work right in the 1st place...
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