Extreme Force Required to Size Brass ??? & First Stuck Case :-(

[300magman]

I've done a lot of sizing on small brass and I've noticed that a bit of force is necessary, but nothing too harsh. And I have sized lots of 45-70 with next to zero effort required.

Both using cheap RCBS dies and Hornady One Shot

Now, I have moved on to the big boys, 30.06 and 300 win mag. This time using Forster Bench Rest Dies.
I just got done sizing 80 of the 300win mags and I'm Tired, I was putting half my body weight on the press and bowing the 1" solid wood top of my reloading bench with each case.
I found a slight bur on the die after a case or two but easily removed it and after 50 or so cases the sizing gradually become somewhat easier.

Then I tried the 30.06 and encountered the same extreme effort required....no burs in the die this time...but I stuck the 4th case when the rim ripped off.


Soooo...any idea why I'm encountering this problem. Do these cases usually require this much effort? Are the Forster Dies generally very tight (undersize) or more roughly finished than other dies? Perhaps I should be getting more lube on the inside of the case neck so the expander ball will release more easily?? (if that is my problem)


By the way, I am about to try this http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...15&postcount=5 removal method in the morning; but should I do anything with the die overnight (freeze it? heat it? soak it in a light oil? WD40, etc?)

[jinxer3006]

I think every post I've ever seen about stuck cases involves Hornady One Shot. I've never used it myself, but I've heard that you must let it dry before attempting to size cases. Personally I use RCBS lube and have had no problems. Many people recommend Imperial sizing wax, but I have never tried it myself.

[ebell46]

not trying to sound like an ass, but are you sure the 30-06 brass does not have a military crimp around the primer, I doubt the 300 win mag would however. I made the mistake of trying to de-prime/re-size crimped primers when I first started loading rifle cartridges.

[300magman]

The brass is big name, factory brass, once fired from the factory loadings (rem, fed, & win) ... no military anything.

[TXGunNut]

Been using Hornady One Shot for years, just like the folks who use Imperial or pad lubes. I'll put 20-30 cases in a small saucepan, spray for 3 seconds, shake pan & spray again. Then I let them dry for at least 3-4 minutes. No muss, no fuss, no stuck cases.

[Mule]

part of it is the nature of the beast. I expend more effort sizing 30-06 than I do 223.

My experience with one shot was not good. Try another lube. Currently i am favoring Dillon spray lube.

[mehavey]

Both RCBS and Forster make fine dies.
They aren't your problem.

Get some Imperial sizing wax -- or even RBCS pad lube -- and apply them by hand to the bottom 2/3rds as you size each case.
You don't need much and all your sizing problem will abate.

[Hog Buster]

You didn’t mention what press you're using. Some turret and C type presses have enough flex in them to make sizing rifle cases rough. As you put pressure on them they flex and cause the longer and tougher rifle case to be forced in at a slight angle, binding a bit, and sometimes a lot. While they work fine for straight walled and pistol cases They’re not too hot for bottle necked rifle cases.

I use and old Bonanza press (forerunner to the Forster) and Dillon spray (lanolin & alcohol) for .375 H&H cases and it’s a one hand operation. I also use a Q-tip to put a little dab inside the case mouth. Helps the expander ball.

[FrankenMauser]

You need more lube (if you stick with One-Shot). Or you can try a different lube (but you need to clean the One-Shot out of the dies, before using the new lube).

[Dr. Strangelove]

Originally Posted by TXGunNut

Been using Hornady One Shot for years, just like the folks who use Imperial or pad lubes. I'll put 20-30 cases in a small saucepan, spray for 3 seconds, shake pan & spray again. Then I let them dry for at least 3-4 minutes. No muss, no fuss, no stuck cases.

Yep, me too. Follow the instructions - shake the can for one minute, spray, liberally, let dry for at least one minute.

"One Shot" is sort of a misnomer, it's more like spray every case from all directions, being sure to get the inside of the case neck as well. I also give the inside of the die a spray.

[Jimro]

I use RCBS spray on lube, and a cotton swab with RCBS grease for the inside of the case necks.

The initial full length resize is going to be a chore, especially if you are resizing brass fired in a semi auto as they tend to stretch more in my experience.

Jimro

[1911rocks]

To the OP: You are lubing the inside of the neck aren't you? It's amazing how much difference it makes. Neck or Full length resizing? Generally, it does require substantially more force for say a, 223 vs a 308. They are definitely not like resizing 45acp!

[PA-Joe]

It is also a good idea to clean the insides of new dies to remove the packing oil. Then give the inside a very lightly coating of lube. If you get dimples in the shoulder then you are using too much lube. I lube the cases and then wipe the neck and shoulders with my fingers. As noted you do have to do the inside of the neck with a Q tip.

[Magnum Wheel Man]

sizing full length bottlenecked cases is more difficult than straight walls for sure... are you using a press with compound leverage??? I use a rock chucker for bottlenecked cases, but am happy using my RCBS junior for pistol & straight wall rifle cases like 45-70...

also for tougher cases, I use a lube pad with STP oil treatment on it... one roll across the straight portion of the case, & one twist of the case mouth into the pad gives me all the lubrication I need...

BTW... if you are using a spray lube, are you waiting for the propellant to evaporate before you size the cases ??? I noticed with the Frankford Arsonal spray I have, that if I size right after I spray, it's as much as twice as difficult as if I wait 5 minutes or so... so I have a tendancy to do them in 2 batches I'll lube one batch & roll them around a bit ( trying to spray in the case mouthes as much as possible ) then I'll set them down & do a 2nd batch... before I start sizing the 1st

[wogpotter]

There are 2 different Hornady one shot lubes. One is a pump, the other a spray (aerosol) can. The "green" pump bottle is rubbish & is acknowledged to be rubbish by Hornady. The spray stuff is fine.
There is more than just a different dispenser system, the actual case lube inside is totally different. I had a .308 case jam & tear the rim off with the pump & when I returned it to Hornady they replaced the pump with a spray & now it is fine. If you are using the pump throw it out & get something else.

[300magman]

It sounds like I am just not using enough lube. I am using a Forster Co-ax Press and the spray can One Shot, not the pump...I think I just got used to using it sparingly on the smaller cases and having them resize so easily that I thought that was all I needed. Perhaps a few more blasts from the can next time and my problem will go away....Along with more drying time, the can says a minute or two, but I think it needs closer to 5 in high humidy conditions.

I just had to ask about the dies, as that was one variable that changed as well, cheap RCBS for the small and expensive Forster Bench Rest for the bigger ones that started giving me problems.



But on to my last question, should I prep the die/case in any way before attempting the home made extractor solution??

[Magnum Wheel Man]

I'd lube the die or better yet spray with WD-40 or other penitrating oil prior to trying to remove the broken case... ( of course fully clean the die afterwards )

[farmerboy]

you should know what youre doing before doing it! or you will have problems and then start blaming this and that. Not cheap dies, prob not the spray lube although Ive always used RCBS lube pad myself. If you start resizing with alot of force dont keep going until something like this stops you have enough sense to stop and find out beforehand whats causing your problem.

[F. Guffey]

I collect datums, I make datums, I purchase datums.

I went to the firing range with a rifle chambered in 300 Win Mag, with 4 boxes of ammo, in time the rifle started to shoot one hole groups after the 74th round, the last 5 went through the same hole, I started on another rifle, new, Winchester Model 70, after 100 rounds I called Winchester, seems for some reason they wanted me to fire it some more, no logic, I loaded 20 rounds, 5 different loads in groups of 4, no improvement, I explained the problem, they were not interested, I was instructed to take the rifle to a warranty shop, I did, I explained to them the chamber was too long and too large in diameter, did not matter, the fix? polish, ream and or hone. And I ask "How is it possible to polish, and or ream and or hone anything and make it smaller, no answer, I left the rifle, months later I sent to pick it up, it was not at the gun shop, seems the smith honed and polished and reamed the chamber and I ask "Why did the rifle go back to Winchester" and the answer was "The chamber was too large and long and the gouges were too deep to remove" and I ask "When did the chamber become too large"? when I brought it to you or after you started honing, polishing and or reaming and he did not answer me but the rifle was sent back to Winchester. Long story, I was not happy with Winchester, eventually the rifle was shipped back with no mention of repairs, I have had the rifle back for 3 years, I do not have plans on going to the range with that rifle,

The difference between the first rifle and second rifle? The difference in the size of the two chambers, cases fired in the first chamber would chamber in the second rifles chamber without sizing, cases fired in the second chamber could not be hammered into the first rifles chamber. cases fired in the first chamber when sized were effortless sized, cases fired in the second chamber required the effort of a go-rill-o, same press, die, lube. There is no shortage of presses here, I am not restricted to a brand or color. I wanted a chamber that fit my dies, I got that with the first rifle 'OR' I wanted a die to fit their chamber on the second rifle, and as I said, I make, collect, and purchase datums, there is no better way to determine the difference between chambers or chambers and dies.

And I measure before and after.

Keeping the Winchester? With a blown out and gouged chamber, rough on brass, and there is no logic, Winchester can build rifles with ugly chambers, the question is' Why build it with an ugly chamber just because they can'?

F. Guffey

[maggys drawers]

Interesting situation. I am in the same boat with a brand new Forster die. I've resized at least 1000 30-06 cases for my M1 with Lee dies and had 1 stuck case with One Shot. I managed to get it out without screwing up the die, but I knew I didn't want to do that again if I didn't have to. I switched to Imperial wax and never looked back and never stuck another case. I bought a Forster benchrest set because I wanted a better seater die.

The first case through the Forster sizer (lubed with Imperial as usual) stuck tighter than a bulls butt in fly season. Tore off the rim...tried all the tricks for removing the case but no luck. I had cleaned the die prior to use and adjusted per their instructions. I called Forster and sent the die back for them to remove the case. The customer service lady told me they had been getting more stuck cases that had been lubed with Imperial lately. She suggested using their lube, and would include a sample when they returned the die.I haven't gotten the die back from them yet, but it's only been a week or so.

Maybe the tolerances on the Forster are tighter ? I know I really had to lean on the Rock Chucker on that case, and I knew better than to do it but did it anyway. On the up side, I really like their seater die.

Live and learn, I guess. Forster will extract the case and polish the die for $9 + shipping.

[praetorian97]

One shot caused this for me. I now use RCBS Case Slick.

[Doodlebugger45]

I progressed from RCBS case lube 2 (too messy) to Hornady One Shot (neat but not effective enough) to Imperial Sizing Wax. Unbelievable how much less effort it takes using that stuff. I didn't stick any cases with the One Shot, but a few times I could feel myself getting mighty close. It doesn't seem to be consistent at all. And there is definitely a difference in the effort between presses. I now use a Redding Big Boss 2 and it's surprising how easy it is to size 7 mm mag cases in it compared to my Lee presses.

[praetorian97]

I use whats left of my one shot to clean out my dies when I am done.

[studman5578]

I love one shot. I use the wax and I apply it on the body of the shouldered rifle case just below the shoulder (this is where I've had the best results for the smallest ammount of lube). I use it for 223 rem and 30-06. I've tried other spray on lubes and none come close to one shot wax. My $0.02

[wncchester]

"It sounds like I am just not using enough lube."

Yep.

All commercial case lubes work fine IF they are correctly applied. Nothing works very well if it's not correctly applied; excessively hard insertion is your clue. Ignore the clue and expect to pull out your stuck case remover.