Gun Grabbers At The Next Table --

-Xero- · March 23, 2013, 06:00 PM

I'm sitting in "My Corner" (I'm a regular.) at the local coffee house. Four locals, what I call "Bo Bo's" -- Bourgeoises Bohemes -- sitting at the table behind me, talking nonsense and knee-jerk hysterical about "guns." "Ohhhhhhhh the horror!"

They just characterized gun owners as "white, male, Southern, poor, and marginally educated." (I'm native to the Pacific NW, upper middle, with more than a couple advanced degrees.)

I'm doing a pretty fair job controlling myself. I just find it ironic that I'm less than 3' from them, sitting at the next table, WiFi online here at the "gun site" and a .357 magnum snubby IWB under the shirt.

-- Haven't heard any demonstrable grasp of the Bill of Rights in any way shape or form, except perhaps to exert their First Amendment guarantee to expostulate at length about things which they know nothing at all.

redhologram · March 23, 2013, 06:24 PM

lol.. Boy are they on the WRONG track with their characterization.
Wait.. I am Southern.. I'll give them that..

**Spats McGee** · March 23, 2013, 06:34 PM

I'm southern, and male, but I don't think I fit that "marginally educated" part.

Patriot86 · March 23, 2013, 07:02 PM

Having lived in Floroda for 7 years and then for some foolish greedy reason moving back to Illinois I consider myself am honorary Southerner. I hate the OFWG stereotype. I am a YFWG though.

Salmoneye · March 23, 2013, 07:49 PM

-- Haven't heard any demonstrable grasp of the Bill of Rights in any way shape or form, except perhaps to exert their First Amendment guarantee to expostulate at length about things which they know nothing at all.

I feel your pain...

berettaprofessor · March 23, 2013, 08:01 PM

You should have spoken up to destroy their stereotypes.

Rembrandt · March 23, 2013, 08:16 PM

Should have eaten a pastry in the shape of a gun to make your point.....Poptarts work well for this.

**Tom Servo** · March 23, 2013, 08:30 PM

Quote:

You should have spoken up to destroy their stereotypes.

It's likely their minds are set, and if their ideas were to have been challenged, they'd have resorted to bickering, mockery, and they'd have ultimately walked away still having the same opinions.

It's one thing to try and convince someone who's unsure or on the fence. It's another to try and convince someone who resorts to stereotypes.

Tinner666 · March 23, 2013, 08:50 PM

I was doing the same thing a few months back. I asked their opinions on some things without ever saying I was pro-gun or even refuting them.
Then I said, let's make believe. We were in a corner, and I pointed at the nearest door and asked "What would you do if somebody came in with an axe chopping everybody he could reach, or with a sword or machette slicing away, or make a pistol or rifle shooting?"
"Think hard and imagine it! What would you do?"

After a few minutes with their eyes getting bigger as I said PD could get here in 10 minutes easy. I said I knew what I'd do. "If he doesn't somehow get me first, I'll take him out and save all of us. Yeah, I carry and yes I'm armed, and yes I can protect all of us."

It opened new lines of talk and I honestly believe I got 4-5 people to think about the truth versus the hype.

cerberus65 · March 23, 2013, 10:49 PM

3 out of 5 is close enough for gov't work, right? :-)

And Patriot86, we call Florida the only place you have to go north to get to the South. Sorry!

Good job, Tinner666! I love playing games like that and watching people's heads explode. Sometimes it even does some good but most times not.

dakota.potts · March 24, 2013, 02:30 AM

I'm southern (well, Floridian but I lived in South Carolina for 2 years), male and white but I graduated high school at 16 so there's that.

KMAX · March 24, 2013, 09:25 AM

"white, male, Southern, poor, and marginally educated."

marginally educated - by who's standard. There is much education attained outside the university (as in real life).

poor - not the best condition to be in but by far not the worst.

white, male, Southern - Sorry, but I don't see any of these as negative (possibly because I only have one BS degree).

I suppose it is easier to form an opinion if you don't have to deal with facts.

Mausermolt · March 24, 2013, 09:48 AM

White male helicopter pilot from Oregon chiming in...and im the "gun nut" of my family

cecILL · March 24, 2013, 09:54 AM

Education and intelligence are not always the same.

Dashunde · March 24, 2013, 10:06 AM

I dont think they are ever the same until articulate communication is considered.

Education often parades around imitating intelligence.

Grizz12 · March 24, 2013, 10:08 AM

Maybe next time you cold politely say "I couldn't help but over hear your conversation, mind if I join you?" Then ask them questions like mentioned above - "what would you do if...?"

Since you have you computer with you, it will be easy to google and disprove any of their fears

And dont forget to mention how Chicago has some of the strictest firearm laws and the highest firearm related deaths (murders).

Dashunde · March 24, 2013, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Then ask them questions like mentioned above - "what would you do if...?"

More often than not those questions are deflected with "Your paranoid, we're sitting here in a little diner in Littletown, what are the chances of that happening?"

Frankly, its become less and less worth my time to converse with those who do not think rationally or those who would happily give up Liberties for their own soft-brained false sense of security.

The folks on the fence are definitely worth the effort.

ScottRiqui · March 24, 2013, 10:20 AM

Quote:

And dont forget to mention how Chicago has some of the strictest firearm laws and the highest firearm related deaths (murders).

If you're going to use that as a talking point, it's worth mentioning for the sake of intellectual honesty that while Chicago may have the largest number of firearm-related murders, it's also a very big city.

If you go by firearm-related murder *rate* (annual firearm-related murders per year per 100,000 residents), then Chicago isn't even in the top fifteen, and they're behind several cities with much more relaxed gun laws.

Also, be careful not to imply that Chicago's high murder rate is *because* of their strict gun laws. The gun laws may have just been a reaction to a high murder rate, not the cause of it.

jimbob86 · March 24, 2013, 10:32 AM

Quote:

You should have spoken up to destroy their stereotypes.

Be prepared for serious backlash: some of these "highly-educated" folk take their "beliefs" as seriously as some do their religion ....... I might go so far to say that for some, this IS their religion.

Quote:

Education and intelligence are not always the same.

I have seen so many that use an extensive vocabulary to prattle on in support of someone else's certainties on things that just are not so ...... they can talk for hours about various things they have no firsthand knoledge of........ They KNOW so much, yet can actually DO so little. They assume they'll "have people for that." ...... when it comes down to crunch time, they are helpless.

All the fine art degrees in the world won't frame a painting.

Famas · March 24, 2013, 10:37 AM

Next time bring in your friends and have a round-table discussion about how gun-grabbers are snooty, effete, hypocritcal Alinsky-ites bent perversing the meaning and definition of the Constitution to fit their own selfish beliefs. Make sure you do so when they are there too, and see how they react when they realize pro-2nd people also frequent their favorite coffee haunts and express themselves.

I honestly believe one of the reasons pro-2nd people are loosing their rights is because we fail to speak up.

jimbob86 · March 24, 2013, 10:43 AM

Quote:

see how they react when they realize pro-2nd people also frequent their favorite coffee haunts and express themselves.

If they are adherents to Alinski, they will seek to have you banned from the establishment ...... failing that, they will seek to destroy the establishment, to replace it with one more to their liking.

SHE3PDOG · March 24, 2013, 10:51 AM

I'm from Indiana. I obviously have enough money to buy guns and ammo, so I must not be that poor. I have an associates degree and am continuing my education while serving in the Marine Corps in the Intel community. I don't believe I fit their stereotypes very well.

As far as being paranoid goes, we live in a society full of paranoia. For instance, by our standards they were being extremely paranoid by erroneously fearing guns or people with guns. We are constantly being accused of paranoia for bearing arms in our homes or in public for the purpose of self defense, but are our opponents not being paranoid by assuming that we might turn on them? This argument would likely quickly be rejected by many as an attack on an individual's rationale.

Despite the above argument, a better argument for the less mentally adequate folks that may oppose us might be something related to every day scenarios. For instance, statistically you are about as likely to die in car accident as you are by a gunshot wound, but I bet those scholarly gentlemen wouldn't think twice about putting their seat belt on when they get in a car. How is that much different from me utilizing my firearm to protect my life?

Mac's! · March 24, 2013, 11:13 AM

I developed my own psy-war technique for dealing with those kinds of mind locked people. So I just start agreeing with them.

*Yes, we need to get rid of those things....all of them except for certain ones.
*Why does anybody need something capable of doing that?
*They don't need to hold so many of those thingies. Seven is plenty.
*Why do those people want such big ones? Little ones would be ok.
*So many people die because of them.
*I was attacked by a person with one. My freind died and I was in the hospital for a long time. (If I get a good reaction to that one, I add in: It makes me cry sometimes. I have nightmares about them)
*It's a waste of money for people to want them.
*Just think of how much tax money could be saved on hospital bills because of innocent people and kids getting hurt or killed by them.

If I get a good reaction to those comments, I might start getting all religous with a bunch of Hallelujahs, etc.

I control the conversation and just put the lightning strike on them. Then...and you have to time it just right to get the full effect...I say: Guns? I thought we were talking about cars! More innocent people are killed by cars than guns. Nobody needs a car that can go a 100 MPH. Nobody needs more than seven gallons of gas. Etc. etc... You give up your 3000 pound guided missle and I might give up my gun.....Then I pat my belly where my gun is and walk away smiling. Keep yer powder dry, Mac.
Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All.
Mac's Shootin' Irons
http://www.shootiniron.com

iraiam · March 24, 2013, 11:37 AM

I got one good the other day, he was spewing some preposterous nonsense about high capacity magazines (here in CO) and stating that they are only for killing lots of people.

I responded with "I know right, now only the government can have them, I know I feel better"

I'm really not sure what happened next I think his brain may have had a short circuit somewhere, but it was rather amusing to see the look on his face and lack of anything to say.

jimbob86 · March 24, 2013, 11:51 AM

Good one ira!

I'm waiting for the chance to refute the "highest murder rate" thing that is always bandied about- it is true, so long as you don't count the 100's of millions of murders perpetrated by various governments in the last 100 years.

Remember, it takes a Government to truly put the "mass" in "massacre"!

Google "democide"......

March 23, 2013, 06:00 PM	#1
-Xero- Junior member Join Date: March 14, 2013 Posts: 51	Gun Grabbers At The Next Table -- I'm sitting in "My Corner" (I'm a regular.) at the local coffee house. Four locals, what I call "Bo Bo's" -- Bourgeoises Bohemes -- sitting at the table behind me, talking nonsense and knee-jerk hysterical about "guns." "Ohhhhhhhh the horror!" They just characterized gun owners as "white, male, Southern, poor, and marginally educated." (I'm native to the Pacific NW, upper middle, with more than a couple advanced degrees.) I'm doing a pretty fair job controlling myself. I just find it ironic that I'm less than 3' from them, sitting at the next table, WiFi online here at the "gun site" and a .357 magnum snubby IWB under the shirt. -- Haven't heard any demonstrable grasp of the Bill of Rights in any way shape or form, except perhaps to exert their First Amendment guarantee to expostulate at length about things which they know nothing at all. Last edited by -Xero-; March 27, 2013 at 12:40 AM.

March 23, 2013, 06:34 PM	#3
Spats McGee Staff Join Date: July 28, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 8,821	I'm southern, and male, but I don't think I fit that "marginally educated" part. __________________ I'm a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer. If you need some honest-to-goodness legal advice, go buy some.

March 23, 2013, 07:02 PM	#4
Patriot86 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2010 Location: Chicagoland Posts: 1,293	Having lived in Floroda for 7 years and then for some foolish greedy reason moving back to Illinois I consider myself am honorary Southerner. I hate the OFWG stereotype. I am a YFWG though. __________________ "....The swords of others will set you your limits".

March 23, 2013, 08:50 PM	#9
Tinner666 Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2012 Location: Richmond, Va. Posts: 353	I was doing the same thing a few months back. I asked their opinions on some things without ever saying I was pro-gun or even refuting them. Then I said, let's make believe. We were in a corner, and I pointed at the nearest door and asked "What would you do if somebody came in with an axe chopping everybody he could reach, or with a sword or machette slicing away, or make a pistol or rifle shooting?" "Think hard and imagine it! What would you do?" After a few minutes with their eyes getting bigger as I said PD could get here in 10 minutes easy. I said I knew what I'd do. "If he doesn't somehow get me first, I'll take him out and save all of us. Yeah, I carry and yes I'm armed, and yes I can protect all of us." It opened new lines of talk and I honestly believe I got 4-5 people to think about the truth versus the hype. __________________ Frank-- Member, GoA, NRA-ILA, SAF, NRA Life Member

March 23, 2013, 10:49 PM	#10
cerberus65 Senior Member Join Date: April 30, 2008 Posts: 384	3 out of 5 is close enough for gov't work, right? :-) And Patriot86, we call Florida the only place you have to go north to get to the South. Sorry! Good job, Tinner666! I love playing games like that and watching people's heads explode. Sometimes it even does some good but most times not. __________________ previously known as Kerberos

March 23, 2013, 06:24 PM	#2
redhologram Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2013 Posts: 352	lol.. Boy are they on the WRONG track with their characterization. Wait.. I am Southern.. I'll give them that..

March 23, 2013, 07:49 PM	#5
Salmoneye Senior Member Join Date: December 31, 2011 Location: Vermont Posts: 2,076	-- Haven't heard any demonstrable grasp of the Bill of Rights in any way shape or form, except perhaps to exert their First Amendment guarantee to expostulate at length about things which they know nothing at all. I feel your pain...

March 23, 2013, 08:01 PM	#6
berettaprofessor Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2008 Posts: 1,091	You should have spoken up to destroy their stereotypes.

March 23, 2013, 08:16 PM	#7
Rembrandt Senior Member Join Date: August 10, 2002 Posts: 2,108	Should have eaten a pastry in the shape of a gun to make your point.....Poptarts work well for this.

March 24, 2013, 02:30 AM	#11
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I'm southern (well, Floridian but I lived in South Carolina for 2 years), male and white but I graduated high school at 16 so there's that.

March 24, 2013, 09:25 AM	#12
KMAX Senior Member Join Date: June 20, 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 1,185	"white, male, Southern, poor, and marginally educated." marginally educated - by who's standard. There is much education attained outside the university (as in real life). poor - not the best condition to be in but by far not the worst. white, male, Southern - Sorry, but I don't see any of these as negative (possibly because I only have one BS degree). I suppose it is easier to form an opinion if you don't have to deal with facts. __________________ This is my gun. There are many like her, but this one is mine. I'm not old. I'm CLASSIC! Last edited by KMAX; March 24, 2013 at 09:34 AM.

March 24, 2013, 09:48 AM	#13
Mausermolt Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2007 Location: Ory-gun Posts: 508	White male helicopter pilot from Oregon chiming in...and im the "gun nut" of my family __________________ Molon Labe

March 24, 2013, 09:54 AM	#14
cecILL Senior Member Join Date: August 13, 2001 Location: central IL Posts: 769	Education and intelligence are not always the same.

March 24, 2013, 10:06 AM	#15
Dashunde Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Posts: 2,018	I dont think they are ever the same until articulate communication is considered. Education often parades around imitating intelligence.

March 24, 2013, 10:08 AM	#16
Grizz12 Senior Member Join Date: December 11, 2012 Posts: 527	Maybe next time you cold politely say "I couldn't help but over hear your conversation, mind if I join you?" Then ask them questions like mentioned above - "what would you do if...?" Since you have you computer with you, it will be easy to google and disprove any of their fears And dont forget to mention how Chicago has some of the strictest firearm laws and the highest firearm related deaths (murders).

March 24, 2013, 10:37 AM	#20
Famas Senior Member Join Date: December 5, 2009 Location: French, currently living in US Posts: 162	Next time bring in your friends and have a round-table discussion about how gun-grabbers are snooty, effete, hypocritcal Alinsky-ites bent perversing the meaning and definition of the Constitution to fit their own selfish beliefs. Make sure you do so when they are there too, and see how they react when they realize pro-2nd people also frequent their favorite coffee haunts and express themselves. I honestly believe one of the reasons pro-2nd people are loosing their rights is because we fail to speak up.

March 24, 2013, 10:51 AM	#22
SHE3PDOG Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2013 Posts: 988	I'm from Indiana. I obviously have enough money to buy guns and ammo, so I must not be that poor. I have an associates degree and am continuing my education while serving in the Marine Corps in the Intel community. I don't believe I fit their stereotypes very well. As far as being paranoid goes, we live in a society full of paranoia. For instance, by our standards they were being extremely paranoid by erroneously fearing guns or people with guns. We are constantly being accused of paranoia for bearing arms in our homes or in public for the purpose of self defense, but are our opponents not being paranoid by assuming that we might turn on them? This argument would likely quickly be rejected by many as an attack on an individual's rationale. Despite the above argument, a better argument for the less mentally adequate folks that may oppose us might be something related to every day scenarios. For instance, statistically you are about as likely to die in car accident as you are by a gunshot wound, but I bet those scholarly gentlemen wouldn't think twice about putting their seat belt on when they get in a car. How is that much different from me utilizing my firearm to protect my life? __________________ Semper Fi Marine, NRA member, SAF Defender's Club member, and constitutionally protected keeper and bearer of firearms

March 24, 2013, 11:13 AM	#23
Mac's! Senior Member Join Date: August 15, 2001 Posts: 129	I developed my own psy-war technique for dealing with those kinds of mind locked people. So I just start agreeing with them. Yes, we need to get rid of those things....all of them except for certain ones. Why does anybody need something capable of doing that? They don't need to hold so many of those thingies. Seven is plenty. Why do those people want such big ones? Little ones would be ok. So many people die because of them. I was attacked by a person with one. My freind died and I was in the hospital for a long time. (If I get a good reaction to that one, I add in: It makes me cry sometimes. I have nightmares about them) It's a waste of money for people to want them. Just think of how much tax money could be saved on hospital bills because of innocent people and kids getting hurt or killed by them. If I get a good reaction to those comments, I might start getting all religous with a bunch of Hallelujahs, etc. I control the conversation and just put the lightning strike on them. Then...and you have to time it just right to get the full effect...I say: Guns? I thought we were talking about cars! More innocent people are killed by cars than guns. Nobody needs a car that can go a 100 MPH. Nobody needs more than seven gallons of gas. Etc. etc... You give up your 3000 pound guided missle and I might give up my gun.....Then I pat my belly where my gun is and walk away smiling. Keep yer powder dry, Mac. Tuff-Gun Finishes. The Name Says It All. Mac's Shootin' Irons http://www.shootiniron.com

March 24, 2013, 11:37 AM	#24
iraiam Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: Lakewood, CO Posts: 1,057	I got one good the other day, he was spewing some preposterous nonsense about high capacity magazines (here in CO) and stating that they are only for killing lots of people. I responded with "I know right, now only the government can have them, I know I feel better" I'm really not sure what happened next I think his brain may have had a short circuit somewhere, but it was rather amusing to see the look on his face and lack of anything to say. __________________ NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999 "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason

March 24, 2013, 11:51 AM	#25
jimbob86 Junior member Join Date: October 4, 2007 Location: All the way to NEBRASKA Posts: 8,722	Good one ira! I'm waiting for the chance to refute the "highest murder rate" thing that is always bandied about- it is true, so long as you don't count the 100's of millions of murders perpetrated by various governments in the last 100 years. Remember, it takes a Government to truly put the "mass" in "massacre"! Google "democide"......