is winchester 64g power point handloads good for ar 15?

filenamex5100 · December 5, 2010, 03:17 PM

im new to reloading (and this forum) and would like to ask a few of you guys and girls if what i have going is a good setup. i currently have the following:

lee classic loader (the one you do all the steps by hand).
hodgdon varget powder.
remington factory new cases.
cci primers.
winchester 64 grain power point bullets.

from everything i have read, you are suppose to crimp a bullet that does not have a crimping groove. these power point bullets do not have the groove.

i am shooting with a s&w mp15 ar-15. 1.9 twist, 5.56 rated, 16" barrel.

my question is this....will the bullets be held in the cases firm enough to not wiggle loose dureing recoil and random carry?? it seems i can push the bullet into the case with my finger like its not very tight. with force, i can also pull the bullet out of the case.

any ideas?? i would hate to have a magazine full of 30 of these loads only to have a few of bullets fall back into the case and then create a very dangerous discharge.

ideas and thoughts would be greatly appreciated. i am thinking about going to a bullet that has crimp grooves....just for a piece of mind!

thanks alot.

NuJudge · December 5, 2010, 03:41 PM

I've loaded zillions of .223 rounds for competition in AR type rifles, never crimped a one of them, and never had a bullet telescope back into the case on feeding.

I have a 1:9" twist, 20" barrel on one of my receivers. It shoots 52gr bullets very well, but does not group that well with anything heavier. It will stabilize everything up to 75gr, but the groups are nothing special.

Shoney · December 5, 2010, 04:12 PM

filenamex5100

WELCOME TO TFL!!!

The 9 (1 to 9) twist is ideal for 68-75 gr bullets and may shoot lighter bullets well. The 64 gr should shoot well.

It sounds like you are over-crimping the bullet, which results in loose bullets. The set up for proper crimp is:
Take a sized case to and run it up to top dead center (TDC). Some presses go past TDC and go down a bit. If this is typical of your press and you set up after TDC, after the ram goes down at the top of the stroke, you will have an over-crimp.

With the ram a TDC, screw the seat/crimp die in until it just makes contact and you find it hard to screw in. This should give you a neck where the tension holds the bullet, and no further crimping is necessary.

If you find the bullets are moving back in the cases during chambering/shooting, you may want to look at a Factory Crimp Die.

Let us know your results!

filenamex5100 · December 5, 2010, 04:33 PM

i have never shot any rounds that i have loaded myself. this is why im asking you guys if its okay to shoot these rounds. i shoot federal tactical tru 62g SP all the time with super great accuracy. 1/2" at 100yrds 3x magnification.

my main concern for this thread is the fact that im loading the winchester 64 grain power point bullets and they are easily pushed backed into the caseing with very little force just with the finger!! im wondering if this would cause an issue when being fed through a ar-15 platform.

i dont have a fancy press or anything. i elected to buy the lee classic loader....the one you use a hammer with the prime, seat bullets, etc etc. the $24 kit. haha. i like the kit alot but i want to make sure you guys think these bullets will be stable enough in the magazine to back-out or be pushed back into the caseing.

am i confusing anyone yet??

snuffy · December 5, 2010, 05:11 PM

Quote:

lee classic loader (the one you do all the steps by hand).

This is the whack-a-mole lee hand loader,(you use a hammer to drive the brass into the NECK sizer die), it is just not sizing the neck tight enough. No amount of crimp will make up for a loose neck. Neck tension alone should hold the bullet, no need to crimp.

The 1-9 twist rate is fine up to 70 grains, you should get good groups.

The ammo you already have loaded will shoot just fine loaded one at a time. Place the shells in the chamber one at a time. Another thing you could do is, pull the bullets and try to size them again, after dumping the powder.

Quote:

am i confusing anyone yet??

Nope, you're doing just fine. Keep asking questions, we'll keep answering.

filenamex5100 · December 5, 2010, 05:20 PM

snuffy,
i just pulled the bullets from the cases of the ones i wasnt to comfortable with. after doing that, i adjusted the bullet set depth and it seems to have perhaps fixed the problem. seems the bullets are tight now. now i just hope they will feed through my rifle ok since they are a bit longer. they seem to fit inside my 30 round pmag just fine but they are just about hitting the edge of the magazine. i think thats known in the reloading world as maximum magazine bullet size or something to that nature. thanks alot.

December 5, 2010, 03:17 PM	#1
filenamex5100 Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 16	is winchester 64g power point handloads good for ar 15? im new to reloading (and this forum) and would like to ask a few of you guys and girls if what i have going is a good setup. i currently have the following: lee classic loader (the one you do all the steps by hand). hodgdon varget powder. remington factory new cases. cci primers. winchester 64 grain power point bullets. from everything i have read, you are suppose to crimp a bullet that does not have a crimping groove. these power point bullets do not have the groove. i am shooting with a s&w mp15 ar-15. 1.9 twist, 5.56 rated, 16" barrel. my question is this....will the bullets be held in the cases firm enough to not wiggle loose dureing recoil and random carry?? it seems i can push the bullet into the case with my finger like its not very tight. with force, i can also pull the bullet out of the case. any ideas?? i would hate to have a magazine full of 30 of these loads only to have a few of bullets fall back into the case and then create a very dangerous discharge. ideas and thoughts would be greatly appreciated. i am thinking about going to a bullet that has crimp grooves....just for a piece of mind! thanks alot.

December 5, 2010, 03:41 PM	#2
NuJudge Member Join Date: October 17, 2005 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 86	No crimp should be necessary I've loaded zillions of .223 rounds for competition in AR type rifles, never crimped a one of them, and never had a bullet telescope back into the case on feeding. I have a 1:9" twist, 20" barrel on one of my receivers. It shoots 52gr bullets very well, but does not group that well with anything heavier. It will stabilize everything up to 75gr, but the groups are nothing special.

December 5, 2010, 04:12 PM	#3
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	filenamex5100 WELCOME TO TFL!!! The 9 (1 to 9) twist is ideal for 68-75 gr bullets and may shoot lighter bullets well. The 64 gr should shoot well. It sounds like you are over-crimping the bullet, which results in loose bullets. The set up for proper crimp is: Take a sized case to and run it up to top dead center (TDC). Some presses go past TDC and go down a bit. If this is typical of your press and you set up after TDC, after the ram goes down at the top of the stroke, you will have an over-crimp. With the ram a TDC, screw the seat/crimp die in until it just makes contact and you find it hard to screw in. This should give you a neck where the tension holds the bullet, and no further crimping is necessary. If you find the bullets are moving back in the cases during chambering/shooting, you may want to look at a Factory Crimp Die. Let us know your results! __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

December 5, 2010, 04:33 PM	#4
filenamex5100 Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 16	i have never shot any rounds that i have loaded myself. this is why im asking you guys if its okay to shoot these rounds. i shoot federal tactical tru 62g SP all the time with super great accuracy. 1/2" at 100yrds 3x magnification. my main concern for this thread is the fact that im loading the winchester 64 grain power point bullets and they are easily pushed backed into the caseing with very little force just with the finger!! im wondering if this would cause an issue when being fed through a ar-15 platform. i dont have a fancy press or anything. i elected to buy the lee classic loader....the one you use a hammer with the prime, seat bullets, etc etc. the $24 kit. haha. i like the kit alot but i want to make sure you guys think these bullets will be stable enough in the magazine to back-out or be pushed back into the caseing. am i confusing anyone yet??

December 5, 2010, 05:20 PM	#6
filenamex5100 Member Join Date: December 5, 2010 Posts: 16	snuffy, i just pulled the bullets from the cases of the ones i wasnt to comfortable with. after doing that, i adjusted the bullet set depth and it seems to have perhaps fixed the problem. seems the bullets are tight now. now i just hope they will feed through my rifle ok since they are a bit longer. they seem to fit inside my 30 round pmag just fine but they are just about hitting the edge of the magazine. i think thats known in the reloading world as maximum magazine bullet size or something to that nature. thanks alot.