|
Forum Rules | Firearms Safety | Firearms Photos | Links | Library | Lost Password | Email Changes |
Register | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
December 31, 2012, 07:45 PM | #1 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2009
Posts: 201
|
shotshell reloading easier than bullets?
I have never owned or shot a shotgun, but with possible gun control regulations, I'm thinking of switching my firearm choices to things that are more palatable to the overlords.
I think mainly in terms of self defense.... but I digress Googling, I couldn't find an answer to this question: Is shotshell reloading less difficult than regular bullet reloading? |
December 31, 2012, 07:59 PM | #2 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
|
To some degree yes since you do not trim cases.
However, you also cannot simply swap some components like metallic. There are a few different hull types so wad choice depends on hull. Not all primers are interchangeable, but most regular ones are. Powder drops are more forgiving than pistol, being off .5 grain isn't a catastrophic scenario |
December 31, 2012, 08:15 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Rainbow City, Alabama
Posts: 7,167
|
I think it is significantly easier. Once you get the charge bars set up, you can run hundreds through in no time.
|
December 31, 2012, 08:22 PM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 16, 2009
Posts: 201
|
Thanks for the quick responses to a complete shotgun newbie.
I guess the first question should be: Does loading your own actually save money? I'm thinking of 00 12guage along with slugs and some hunting rounds. What savings can one expect when loading your own? 50%.... less? |
December 31, 2012, 09:00 PM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,442
|
Shot shells are much easier to re-load than metallic cartridges.
|
January 1, 2013, 09:19 AM | #6 |
Junior member
Join Date: December 10, 2006
Location: NC
Posts: 365
|
Answer to first question; in 12 gauge you're not going to save much, if at all. 12 is the most common gauge and shells can be bought for roughly 10% over the reloading cost.
When you factor the cost of components (primers @ 35.00 per thousand, shot at 45.00 per 25# and then wads @ 8.00 per bag of 250) and lets not forget the loader itself (250.00 to 400.00) the savings just aren't there. With all of that said, when loading the smaller gauges (.410 and 28) The savings are definately worth the set up cost. Quality .410 and 28 will set you back a cool 12.00 per 25 I almost forgot to answer the original question; shot shells are pretty much follow this procedure; Size and deprime at station 1, reprime and drop powder at station 2, seat a wad and drop shot at station 3, start the crimp at station 4, complete the crimp at station 5 and then taper the shell (for easier feeding) at station 6. SO..... A Mec loader takes 6 pulls of the handle to produce a finished shell. My RCBS Pro 2000 only takes 4 pulls to produce a completed round of centerfire ammo. Judge for yourself.... Last edited by Bailey Boat; January 1, 2013 at 09:26 AM. |
January 1, 2013, 10:45 AM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: October 24, 2007
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 318
|
One thing not mentioned, is you should not work up loads for shotguns like you do for metallic. Find a published load and use it.
I have never loaded buckshot or slugs, but regular shot shells are much easier than metallic. 410 does get pretty darned frustrating at times. |
January 1, 2013, 11:36 AM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 11, 2012
Location: Williamsburg, Va.
Posts: 1,528
|
I cannot believe what I am reading. I think metallic cartridges are 10 times easier to reload. Everybody to their own I guess.
|
January 1, 2013, 12:06 PM | #9 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 20, 2008
Location: Somewhere on the Southern shore of Lake Travis, TX
Posts: 2,603
|
Quote:
Buy a progressive reloading press, you won't regret it, especially if you plan to reload in volume for skeet, trap, sporting clays, or three-gun competition. |
|
January 1, 2013, 12:27 PM | #10 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,195
|
There is currently about a $2 per box savings in 12 ga reloads vs retail target loads ( using #8's or whatever ) .......but there is potentially a much bigger savings in using OO buck, depending on where you get your shot from. I have not loaded a significant volume of OO buck, except in some .410 to play around with at my local range. But there is some savings....plus you can customize the shell to whateve specs you want in terms of velocity and ounces of shot...
All of my shotshell presses are progressive - and so is my metallic....so every time I pull the handle, a finished shell or cartridge comes off the back. One isn't really easier than the other...once the press is setup ...its setup. Volume is about the same ...on both presses / my metallic is a 5 station press...my shotshell presses are 6 station presses - but getting 800 rds an hour off any decent progressive press is pretty easy if its auto indexing ( like a MEC 9000 GN or MEC 9000 HN for shotshells / or a Dillon 650 for metallic. |
January 1, 2013, 12:32 PM | #11 |
Junior member
Join Date: January 24, 2010
Location: South West Riverside County California
Posts: 2,763
|
Agree - with buck shot and slugs as well you save a bundle.
|
January 1, 2013, 12:49 PM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: June 20, 2007
Location: Rainbow City, Alabama
Posts: 7,167
|
Quote:
|
|
January 1, 2013, 02:52 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: SW Washington state
Posts: 1,996
|
Buy Wholesale
12 and 20 gauge are fairly hard to save real money on. Just Google up Shotshell reloading cost calculator. Plug in what you will pay for components and you will have your answer. If you can purchase components at or near wholesale and avoid hazmat fees, you can save some money.
Shotshell is easier than metallic, I do both. Shotshell is strictly a cookbook approach. Once you have your machine dialed in it's actually pretty boring. It's the cost of shot that really makes it tough to save money. I just paid 34 bucks for a 25# bag of #8 and that is a very good price....gulp I just started loading shotshells about three years ago. When I started I was paying 23 bucks for that same bag of #8 shot. For low volume a MEC 600 jr. is hard to beat. Besides, for buckshot a progressive does not help much at all. If you get in to the clay target sports a progressive is the way to go, provided that you can buy the components right. We do group buys through my club for components, if it was not for those group buys I would be buying my target loads by the flat.
__________________
ricklin Freedom is not free |
January 1, 2013, 02:53 PM | #14 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,195
|
Even if it costs you ...say $500 to get setup for a full shotshell press...say buying a MEC 9000-GN ----
http://www.recobstargetshop.com/browse.cfm/2,198.html as long as you save $ 2 a box, even for target shells...it only takes 250 boxes to make up your investment....and that's a pretty quick return. Some of us shoot 250 boxes in 3 months easily ...but even if it takes you a year to shoot 250 boxes...its still a quick return. Most of the OO Buck I see for sale is about $ 1 per shell. I oz of shot in OO Buck is about 8 or 9 pellets per shell... even a premium Hornaday OO buck that I bought thru Cabelas was $27 for 5 lbs....so a 1oz load of shot would be about $ 0.35 ( so shot is $0.35 per shell )...so even with powder, wads, etc....( you use the same components for any 1oz shell --- you just load it with 1 oz of OO Buck vs 1oz of 8's )....the cost per shell is still way under $ 0.40 each....or a savings of $ 0.60 per shell.... so your payback on OO Buck is only between 800 and 900 shells...and I don't know how much OO Buck you want to shoot in one range session ...but even if its only 50 shells ...you still have to have your investment back within a yr or so, I'd think.....and there has to be a way cheaper source of OO Buck out there for reloading other than Hornaday brand from Cabelas in a 5 lb box... ( I bought the 5 lb box of OO to run thru some .410 shotshells....in an American Derringer chambered in .410 or .45 Colt....just for some laughs !! ) .....not because I wanted to shoot 50 shells a week of OO... and with a MEC 9000 GN - you have a very good press...you can use for any number of 12ga shotshells...and wow, are they easy to sell on the used market if you don't like it. But if I was loading low volume, I'd buy the Grabber model ...for around $ 400 ...and save some money / still get a very good press. |
January 1, 2013, 03:02 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 31, 2010
Location: Communist State of IL.
Posts: 1,562
|
Personally I find shot shell reloading to be much more complicated.
There is no working up loads like that in metallic and each shell case has it's own data! I had the hardest time finding good data for the powders I have and I have a number of them using the shells I have. Load data for buckshot and slugs is the hardest and that is what I was looking for. Data for bird loads and sporting clay's is much easier to find. I would find the data for the load your looking for and then buy the components not buy components and then look for data.
__________________
NRA Life Member, SAF Member Last edited by Xfire68; January 1, 2013 at 03:09 PM. |
January 1, 2013, 03:03 PM | #16 |
Staff
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 21,824
|
Get yourself a reloading manual. Stick within the suggestions. Do not substitute powder, or wad, or primer or shot. Keep within the formula. It is too easy to do something that will affect the pressure.
BTW, yes shotshells are easier than metallic cartridges. Even I have reloaded shotshells before.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe! |
January 1, 2013, 03:14 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,195
|
A recipe for 1 oz of shot....is 1 oz of shot....it doesn't matter if you're loading 9's or OO Buck....
Now what does matter -- is that you have the recipe for the right hull, wad, powder, primer, etc..../ but all of the OO Buck I've loaded, has been in typical target hulls.....Remington STS Hulls specifically. So finding recipes is no big deal for OO Buck.... |
January 1, 2013, 04:52 PM | #18 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 20, 2001
Location: Oshkosh wi.
Posts: 3,055
|
Quote:
Buckshot loads are most times loaded on top of stacked fiber wads, called a composite wad column. Another way is to cut the petals off a one piece shotcup, loading the buck in layers of 2,3 or 4 on top of the base of the shotcup. They can be fold crimped, or better yet roll crimped.
__________________
The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly? |
|
January 1, 2013, 04:53 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 20, 2001
Location: Oshkosh wi.
Posts: 3,055
|
Does loading shotshells make sense today?
Yes! Oh I know how wally world and the other big box stores have those economy packs of shotshells. But if you took one of those econo shells apart, you would find soft chilled shot, a small charge of very fast powder, and the cheapest thin wad they could find. Loaded inside a hull that’s NOT made to be reloaded, in some cases attempting to reload them could be dangerous. Now take one or more of those cheapy shells to the pattern board. Ummm, you do pattern your shotgun,,,right? No? Then how do you really know how the chokes really work? Anyway, the cheapo shells will have blotchy patterns, holes a bird, rabbit, or clays could sit in unharmed! You can not reload shells cheaper than those econo shells. Can’t be done! Especially with what shot, powder, primers, and wads cost these days. Why would you WANT to? What you want to load are shells that are as good as, or even better than the top of the line target shells put out by Winchester, Remington, and Federal. That would be the AA, STS and gold medal. To do that you must either buy the loaded shells, shoot them to get empties, or buy once fired empties. The new AA is no where near as good as the older compression formed AA. That leaves the STS and gold medal. To duplicate the performance of the original loading, you need to buy all top of the line components. No skimping here. Magnum shot,(don’t let that name fool you), is high antimony shot. It’s harder than plain old chilled shot. The hardness translates into better patterns. It’s what the factory STS and others target shells have in them. Wads; The big 3 all sell their wads for reloading. They all work, but you can save some $ by buying claybuster wads. They’re made to the same dimensions as the wad they’re replacing, just cheaper. Some say the plastic isn’t as soft, but I’ve found them to work just fine. Powder; Just about any of the shotshell powders will work well. Just be sure of your recipe and follow it exactly. Primers; Again they all work well, be sure to match them to your recipe
__________________
The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly? |
January 1, 2013, 07:34 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: August 27, 2012
Posts: 321
|
Do not EVER give way to the gun control overlords....
A shotgun is a great self defense gun. Shot shells are pretty cheap, however, so reloading may not be a great idea.... |
January 1, 2013, 07:37 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: February 23, 2005
Posts: 13,195
|
You can still load target shells cheaper than the cheap promo shells as well...even with some places selling shot at around $40 a bag...a good 12ga reload - a target shell with 1oz of shot is still around $4.50 a box ...and even the cheap promo shells are up around $6 a box in my area. So you can still save at least $ 1.50 a box over cheap promo loads.
I understand your comments on buffering, layering OO buck into a hull, etc snuffy....but if all you're intersted in is some practice with OO Buck, I still think loading them like any other 1 oz shell is just fine...is it optimum for ballistics, probably not .../ but I'm not suggesting anyone reload "Defense" ammo anyway. I think if you take the loads I suggest - just using a normal 1 oz recipe ...and drop in OO Buck instead....your tests at 30 Feet or whatever range you want to train at, will be satisfactory, especially for training. But I will admit I haven't tested a lot of OO Buck loads either.... |
January 1, 2013, 09:42 PM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: December 24, 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 382
|
I've got several hundred pounds of stick-on WW alloy that I've been accumulating in the garage. I've been toying with the idea of buying the Lee OO buckshot mold and trying my hand at reloading shotshells using that alloy. So let me get this straight. You actually have to count the 9 balls into the hulls manually while reloading, even on a Mec progressive press? And is there a possibility of making reduced buckshot loads for fun and giggles use, so that recoil is similar to what you'd expect from a standard 7 1/2 target load?
|
January 1, 2013, 10:23 PM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: March 31, 2010
Location: Communist State of IL.
Posts: 1,562
|
Quote:
Most of us are not shooting 100's of rounds of buckshot so manually loading of the shot is not a big deal. If I have everything laid out I can load about 20 00 buckshot loads in a half hour.
__________________
NRA Life Member, SAF Member |
|
January 2, 2013, 07:52 AM | #24 | |
Junior member
Join Date: December 20, 2012
Location: The "Gunshine State"
Posts: 1,981
|
Quote:
|
|
January 4, 2013, 08:19 AM | #25 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: December 24, 2007
Location: Rochester, MN
Posts: 347
|
Quote:
Yes lets forget the price of the reloader. Can always sell it at same or more than it cost! Quote:
|
||
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|