Lets pass a law to eliminate crimped military brass

rajbcpa · March 20, 2013, 05:23 AM

I hate this stuff and it is a PITA to de-crimp it during reloading. I can see no reason why military brass is crimped.

This is the only gun control legislation that is needed and which would be effective now.

4runnerman · March 20, 2013, 06:09 AM

I believe it is crimped for a few reasons. One it is harder for your enemy to reload and it is more secure in inclamate weather. I'm sure someone will chime in. On a side note. It is very easy to remove crimp and takes only 2 seconds to do.

Bart B. · March 20, 2013, 07:03 AM

The reason military brass has crimped in primers is a functional issue. If they were not crimped in, then an extra-high pressure situation in a machine gun may expand the case head and primer pocket enough that the primer would fall out when the case was ejected jamming the full auto mechanics rendering the weapon inoperative.

It's less a problem with semiauto and bolt action service rifles, but it can and has happened.

Ever shoot a round in your rifle after debris got into the barrel and had the primer fall out of a case as you ejected it?

Arsenal match ammo used to have crimped in primers but that was stopped in the 1930's.

**Mike Irwin** · March 20, 2013, 07:05 AM

It has nothing to do with the enemy reloading your brass. If the enemy were intent on reloading your brass, wouldn't he take two seconds to do so?

It has EVERYTHING to do with keeping the primer from popping out when the ammo is used in automatic weapons.

The United States and other nations began criming primers as SOP I THINK sometime in the 1920s or 1930s, or when aircraft began to mount guns where the pilots couldn't get to them to clear a jam.

After that it was simpler to crimp everything. Then you didn't have to create a whole separate leg of the supply chain to get crimped ammo to just air corps units.

Barbicatter · March 20, 2013, 07:34 AM

I will trade you my mixed lot of commerical brass for the pesty crimped military brass

gdvan01 · March 20, 2013, 07:37 AM

Quote:

This is the only gun control legislation that is needed and which would be effective now

Huh?
Since when is ANY gun control legislation 'needed' or 'effective' and what does that have to do with the manufacture of ammunition?

FlyFish · March 20, 2013, 08:22 AM

I'm sure you could find a couple of Senators who would be more than happy to eliminate crimped brass for the military, and for civilians, along with non-crimped brass, bullets, and the firearms that use them, and just about anything else that makes us a free country.

Edit: We all recognize that the OP was just kidding about outlawing crimped brass, right?

ScottRiqui · March 20, 2013, 09:06 AM

I understand the crimped 5.56mm and 7.62mm, but does the military have anything full-auto that's chambered in 9mm? I see a ton of crimped "WCC" 9mm military brass around here.

higgite · March 20, 2013, 09:08 AM

Quote:

I hate this stuff and it is a PITA to de-crimp it during reloading.

Don't use it?

**Mike Irwin** · March 20, 2013, 10:14 AM

"but does the military have anything full-auto that's chambered in 9mm?"

Yes. Some special units use the HK MP-5.

ScottRiqui · March 20, 2013, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Yes. Some special units use the HK MP-5.

That makes sense - thanks. I imagine most of the crimped 9mm brass I'm finding was fired from the regular old M9 and M11, but I can understand the military crimping all of its 9mm ammo, rather than having to maintain separate ammo types just for the sub-guns.

iraiam · March 20, 2013, 12:14 PM

Besides assuring that the primer won't come out in an automatic weapon, If you have ever seen a pallet of ammunition through a military supply chain, you understand another reason the primers are crimped in, and why bullets are crimped in a cannelure groove.

Personally, I designed my own crimping tool and will crimp the primers back in when I load some of my full power 5.56 recipes that are intended for defensive purposes and long term storage.

5 STRING · March 20, 2013, 01:09 PM

I love MilSurp stuff,.. I guess that goes back to the USMC in my bloodline. I just picked up 400 more rounds of Surplus 30.06 I'm almost happy,..need another thing or two

Steve in PA · March 20, 2013, 04:16 PM

I never knew our adversaries where collecting our brass to reload it.

Keeping the primers from popping out is the reason.

steelman762 · March 20, 2013, 05:48 PM

Like it was stated earlier mil crimp is done for full auto firearms to keep them functioning without problems. Lake City (LC) brass is quite popular in reloading circles. I just remove the primer crimp with a foster deburing tool. Mil brass is more durable than factory brass. I don't have any problems with it.

FrankenMauser · March 20, 2013, 09:25 PM

I have no problems with crimped primers, unless using sub-standard reloading dies. (*cough* Lee *cough*)

Martys · March 21, 2013, 04:53 AM

No problem for a Dillon swag 600.

balderclev · March 21, 2013, 07:08 AM

I use a countersink bit in my drill and touch the crimp for about 1 second each. Gets rid of the crimp with no problem.

ScottRiqui · March 21, 2013, 07:24 AM

Quote:

I have no problems with crimped primers, unless using sub-standard reloading dies. (*cough* Lee *cough*)

I'm confused - I didn't think that die brand mattered when it came to crimped brass.

Are there other brands of dies that will seat a primer in a crimped case without first removing the crimp? Or are the Lee dies "sub-standard" simply because they don't offer a decrimping/swaging die in their lineup?

**Mike Irwin** · March 21, 2013, 07:32 AM

"I'm confused - I didn't think that die brand mattered when it came to crimped brass."

Exactly.

I reload almost exclusively with Lee dies, and I've never had any problems with their ability to handle crimped primers in either rifle OR handgun.

"Are there other brands of dies that will seat a primer in a crimped case without first removing the crimp?"

That is NOT a function of the reloading dies, and the simple answer is, if the primer pocket is crimped, you're going to have problems no matter whose dies or press you use unless you first remove the crimp.

Rifleman1776 · March 21, 2013, 08:28 AM

This thread is easily in the running for this years "non-issue" award.

gdvan01 · March 21, 2013, 09:51 AM

Quote:

This thread is easily in the running for this years "non-issue" award.

"Bring out the Crimp"
Oh wait, wrong movie...

**Frank Ettin** · March 21, 2013, 10:02 AM

Question answered.

March 20, 2013, 05:23 AM	#1
rajbcpa Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2012 Posts: 321	Lets pass a law to eliminate crimped military brass I hate this stuff and it is a PITA to de-crimp it during reloading. I can see no reason why military brass is crimped. This is the only gun control legislation that is needed and which would be effective now.

March 20, 2013, 06:09 AM	#2
4runnerman Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,577	I believe it is crimped for a few reasons. One it is harder for your enemy to reload and it is more secure in inclamate weather. I'm sure someone will chime in. On a side note. It is very easy to remove crimp and takes only 2 seconds to do. __________________ NRA Certified RSO NwCP- Performance Isn't Optional

March 20, 2013, 07:05 AM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	It has nothing to do with the enemy reloading your brass. If the enemy were intent on reloading your brass, wouldn't he take two seconds to do so? It has EVERYTHING to do with keeping the primer from popping out when the ammo is used in automatic weapons. The United States and other nations began criming primers as SOP I THINK sometime in the 1920s or 1930s, or when aircraft began to mount guns where the pilots couldn't get to them to clear a jam. After that it was simpler to crimp everything. Then you didn't have to create a whole separate leg of the supply chain to get crimped ammo to just air corps units. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 20, 2013, 08:22 AM	#7
FlyFish Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2009 Location: Overlooking the Baker River Valley Posts: 1,723	I'm sure you could find a couple of Senators who would be more than happy to eliminate crimped brass for the military, and for civilians, along with non-crimped brass, bullets, and the firearms that use them, and just about anything else that makes us a free country. Edit: We all recognize that the OP was just kidding about outlawing crimped brass, right? __________________ NRA Benefactor Life Member NRA Certified Instructor: Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, PPIH, Metallic & Shotgun Shell Reloading; RSO Pemigewasset Valley Fish & Game Club

March 20, 2013, 10:14 AM	#10
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"but does the military have anything full-auto that's chambered in 9mm?" Yes. Some special units use the HK MP-5. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 20, 2013, 07:03 AM	#3
Bart B. Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 2009 Posts: 8,927	The reason military brass has crimped in primers is a functional issue. If they were not crimped in, then an extra-high pressure situation in a machine gun may expand the case head and primer pocket enough that the primer would fall out when the case was ejected jamming the full auto mechanics rendering the weapon inoperative. It's less a problem with semiauto and bolt action service rifles, but it can and has happened. Ever shoot a round in your rifle after debris got into the barrel and had the primer fall out of a case as you ejected it? Arsenal match ammo used to have crimped in primers but that was stopped in the 1930's.

March 20, 2013, 07:34 AM	#5
Barbicatter Senior Member Join Date: November 27, 2009 Location: Clay, AL Posts: 223	I will trade you my mixed lot of commerical brass for the pesty crimped military brass

March 20, 2013, 09:06 AM	#8
ScottRiqui Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2010 Location: Norfolk, VA Posts: 2,905	I understand the crimped 5.56mm and 7.62mm, but does the military have anything full-auto that's chambered in 9mm? I see a ton of crimped "WCC" 9mm military brass around here.

March 20, 2013, 12:14 PM	#12
iraiam Senior Member Join Date: September 6, 2012 Location: Lakewood, CO Posts: 1,057	Besides assuring that the primer won't come out in an automatic weapon, If you have ever seen a pallet of ammunition through a military supply chain, you understand another reason the primers are crimped in, and why bullets are crimped in a cannelure groove. Personally, I designed my own crimping tool and will crimp the primers back in when I load some of my full power 5.56 recipes that are intended for defensive purposes and long term storage. __________________ NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999 "I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason

March 20, 2013, 01:09 PM	#13
5 STRING Member Join Date: March 10, 2013 Location: Southern Posts: 36	I love MilSurp stuff,.. I guess that goes back to the USMC in my bloodline. I just picked up 400 more rounds of Surplus 30.06 I'm almost happy,..need another thing or two

March 20, 2013, 04:16 PM	#14
Steve in PA Senior Member Join Date: October 14, 1999 Location: Northeastern PA Posts: 756	I never knew our adversaries where collecting our brass to reload it. Keeping the primers from popping out is the reason. __________________ Steve

March 20, 2013, 05:48 PM	#15
steelman762 Member Join Date: January 18, 2010 Posts: 61	Like it was stated earlier mil crimp is done for full auto firearms to keep them functioning without problems. Lake City (LC) brass is quite popular in reloading circles. I just remove the primer crimp with a foster deburing tool. Mil brass is more durable than factory brass. I don't have any problems with it.

March 20, 2013, 09:25 PM	#16
FrankenMauser Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2008 Location: In the valley above the plain Posts: 13,424	I have no problems with crimped primers, unless using sub-standard reloading dies. (cough Lee cough) __________________ Don't even try it. It's even worse than the internet would lead you to believe.

March 21, 2013, 04:53 AM	#17
Martys Member Join Date: January 19, 2013 Posts: 62	No problem for a Dillon swag 600.

March 21, 2013, 07:08 AM	#18
balderclev Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2013 Location: Benton, Arkansas Posts: 120	Takes 1 sec I use a countersink bit in my drill and touch the crimp for about 1 second each. Gets rid of the crimp with no problem.

March 21, 2013, 07:32 AM	#20
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"I'm confused - I didn't think that die brand mattered when it came to crimped brass." Exactly. I reload almost exclusively with Lee dies, and I've never had any problems with their ability to handle crimped primers in either rifle OR handgun. "Are there other brands of dies that will seat a primer in a crimped case without first removing the crimp?" That is NOT a function of the reloading dies, and the simple answer is, if the primer pocket is crimped, you're going to have problems no matter whose dies or press you use unless you first remove the crimp. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

March 21, 2013, 08:28 AM	#21
Rifleman1776 Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2010 Location: Arkansas Posts: 3,309	This thread is easily in the running for this years "non-issue" award.

March 21, 2013, 10:02 AM	#23
Frank Ettin Staff Join Date: November 23, 2005 Location: California - San Francisco Posts: 9,471	Question answered. __________________ "It is long been a principle of ours that one is no more armed because he has possession of a firearm than he is a musician because he owns a piano. There is no point in having a gun if you are not capable of using it skillfully." -- Jeff Cooper