Can 45 gr varmint ammo penetrate a level III steel plate?

Andrew Wiggin · September 18, 2015, 06:51 PM

It's widely known that M193 will penetrate most Level III steel armor when fired from a long enough barrel due to its higher velocity. Winchester 45 gr varmint JHP can generate even more velocity, about 3,500 fps from a 20" barrel, but it obviously has much lighter construction. So here's the question: Will that tiny little bullet still have enough mass to get through? If so, which barrel length will do it? I messed up the multiple choice part so vote for the shortest barrel length that you believe can get through.

Link to test

1stmar · September 18, 2015, 06:53 PM

No poll. My response would be no unless multiple hits to the same poi

Andrew Wiggin · September 18, 2015, 06:54 PM

You're fast.

dakota.potts · September 19, 2015, 12:25 AM

If it does, I'm betting it does so by heat transfer and none of the material makes it through.

Andrew Wiggin · September 19, 2015, 12:59 AM

That's not how armor fails with rifle rounds. Take a look at the high speed video and you can see the bits of projectile and armor exiting the water jug that was placed behind the plate.

dakota.potts · September 19, 2015, 11:39 AM

But you said to guess before watching the video lol

Andrew Wiggin · September 19, 2015, 11:45 AM

Lol. Yes, because taking about gun stuff is fun, and I usually learn something in these threads. You guessed, now watch the video and tell us what you think.

dakota.potts · September 19, 2015, 03:20 PM

I did watch the video, and I'm honestly surprised that so much of the bullet remains intact enough that it can do notable damage coming through the other side. I'm not sure what the make up of the Winchester varmint rounds are, but I'd be surprised if it's anything other than lead and copper. I guess speed really is the most important factor. I would have guessed that, at a certain hardness, no amount of speed would have carried a softer metal through the armor intact.

Andrew Wiggin · September 19, 2015, 03:23 PM

I'm certainly no expert, but I think that what's happening is that the bullet is mostly annihilated on impact, but a chunk of steel is knocked out of the impact site, almost like a perverse Newton's cradle.

rickyrick · September 19, 2015, 07:17 PM

You would not want to get hit outside the armor with these.

I've used these hunting, with surprising results. A hit in a large vascular area in the upper body will result in immediate incapacitation.

Winchester varmint is my favorite ahead of hornaday vmax

Andrew Wiggin · September 19, 2015, 07:20 PM

I wouldn't want to be shot with anything, but I wouldn't recommend a varmint load for defense. The penetration on this load is way too short.

https://youtu.be/jkJAebfGm4k

View Poll Results: Can varmint ammo defeat a level III plate?
Yes, 20"	2	22.22%
Yes, 18"	0	0%
Yes, 16"	0	0%
Yes, 14.5"	3	33.33%
Yes, 11.5"	0	0%
No, none of them penetrate.	4	44.44%
Voters: 9. You may not vote on this poll

September 18, 2015, 06:51 PM	#1
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Can 45 gr varmint ammo penetrate a level III steel plate? It's widely known that M193 will penetrate most Level III steel armor when fired from a long enough barrel due to its higher velocity. Winchester 45 gr varmint JHP can generate even more velocity, about 3,500 fps from a 20" barrel, but it obviously has much lighter construction. So here's the question: Will that tiny little bullet still have enough mass to get through? If so, which barrel length will do it? I messed up the multiple choice part so vote for the shortest barrel length that you believe can get through. Link to test

September 19, 2015, 12:25 AM	#4
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	If it does, I'm betting it does so by heat transfer and none of the material makes it through. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

September 19, 2015, 11:39 AM	#6
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	But you said to guess before watching the video lol __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

September 19, 2015, 03:20 PM	#8
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	I did watch the video, and I'm honestly surprised that so much of the bullet remains intact enough that it can do notable damage coming through the other side. I'm not sure what the make up of the Winchester varmint rounds are, but I'd be surprised if it's anything other than lead and copper. I guess speed really is the most important factor. I would have guessed that, at a certain hardness, no amount of speed would have carried a softer metal through the armor intact. __________________ Certified Gunsmith (On Hiatus) Certified Armorer - H&K and Glock Among Others You can find my writings at my website, pottsprecision.com.

September 18, 2015, 06:53 PM	#2
1stmar Senior Member Join Date: March 21, 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 2,378	No poll. My response would be no unless multiple hits to the same poi

September 18, 2015, 06:54 PM	#3
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	You're fast.

September 19, 2015, 12:59 AM	#5
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	That's not how armor fails with rifle rounds. Take a look at the high speed video and you can see the bits of projectile and armor exiting the water jug that was placed behind the plate.

September 19, 2015, 11:45 AM	#7
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	Lol. Yes, because taking about gun stuff is fun, and I usually learn something in these threads. You guessed, now watch the video and tell us what you think.

September 19, 2015, 03:23 PM	#9
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	I'm certainly no expert, but I *think* that what's happening is that the bullet is mostly annihilated on impact, but a chunk of steel is knocked out of the impact site, almost like a perverse Newton's cradle.

September 19, 2015, 07:17 PM	#10
rickyrick Senior Member Join Date: March 15, 2010 Posts: 8,238	You would not want to get hit outside the armor with these. I've used these hunting, with surprising results. A hit in a large vascular area in the upper body will result in immediate incapacitation. Winchester varmint is my favorite ahead of hornaday vmax __________________ Woohoo, I’m back In Texas!!!

September 19, 2015, 07:20 PM	#11
Andrew Wiggin Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2012 Posts: 516	I wouldn't want to be shot with anything, but I wouldn't recommend a varmint load for defense. The penetration on this load is way too short. https://youtu.be/jkJAebfGm4k