The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Semi-automatic Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 28, 2012, 01:27 PM   #26
mete
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 14, 2004
Location: NY State
Posts: 6,575
When gun #1 fails you draw gun #2 and continue . That's called the "New York Reload " !!
__________________
And Watson , bring your revolver !
mete is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 03:02 PM   #27
TBT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2005
Location: Pittsburgh Pa
Posts: 971
I’ve been really lucky with my ccw being 100% except for the “Taurus Incident”. In that case I got rid of the gun the next day (believe it or not Gander Mountain actually took it back). Other than that I’ve carried a Glock 26, Kimber UCII, SW1911, Glock 19, M&P9FS, and most recently, a SIG C3 1911. All of these guns have had 500+ flawless rounds of my chosen self-defense ammunition as well as varying amounts of range ammo. My C3 currently has a little over 900 rounds through it, 650 being Golden Saber.

If it were to fail tomorrow I don’t know what I would do. Would probably depend on the failure. I think my recourse would be to get the gun back to the factory and have them check it out and then maybe have my gunsmith look it over for good measure. It would have to be retested with more ammunition etc. Which is expensive. That’s the thing the warranties don’t help with, re-evaluating a firearm that has failed. I’m really glad that I haven’t had a problem outside of that Taurus mistake.
TBT is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 04:12 PM   #28
LockedBreech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Rocky Mountain West
Posts: 3,395
I've had two malfunctions out of the approximately 1,000 rounds fired through my LCP. The first I was waiting for. I was seeing how many times I could take it to the range without cleaning or lubing it. I think I was at visit 3-4, around 200+ rounds in, when I had a case stick in the chamber. It was PMC Bronze FMJ. About 500 rounds later, I was introducing the pistol to a friend and shooting out my old carry ammo to put fresh in. A 102-grain Golden Saber nosed up in the feed ramp and jammed. Easily cleared, and since I've had plenty of the Saber feed perfectly, I'm pretty positive he limp-wristed it. I still keep the 102-grain Golden Saber loaded.

Neither malfunction troubles me. When I'm actually carrying it, I maintain it very exactingly, and I shoot with a firm, steady grip. I've had one malfunction from lip-writing with a friend's new Ruger SR9. I was getting used to the trigger and the shot took me by surprise, I limp-wristed BADLY, I was calling it a jam before I ever saw that it was, and sure enough, failure to eject.

My failure rate has been exceedingly low. Of all the centerfire pistols I've ever shot, I think I've had 5-6 failures total in tens of thousands of rounds.
__________________
16 Pistols, 5 Rifles, 1 Shotgun, no time to shoot them
LockedBreech is offline  
Old November 28, 2012, 04:39 PM   #29
Coltman 77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,244
To answer the OP's question, and not trying to sound snotty but I make it a point not to carry pistols that malfunction.
__________________
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated".
Ernest Hemingway

Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights -- Join the NRA
Coltman 77 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 12:12 AM   #30
Coach Z
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2011
Location: RI
Posts: 795
To use an analogy...

If you're car throws a check engine light or even breaks down over the life of it not many people would sell it instantly. I fully understand that a gun is different and held to a much higher standard but, that said, they are both mechanical devices with a known and acceptable failure rate. Your acceptable rate may be above or below the median for each of those different machines but they are both machines plain and simple.
__________________
Love my guns
Coach Z is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 04:24 AM   #31
armsmaster270
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 25, 2008
Location: California
Posts: 1,951
I haven't had that problem but if I did I would clear it and continue firing.

If it was just a misfire I would fire the round again as in my experience a second firing pin strike on the primer will fire the round in most cases.
__________________
http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/
Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.
armsmaster270 is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 09:43 AM   #32
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,429
Quote:
If you're car throws a check engine light or even breaks down over the life of it not many people would sell it instantly. I fully understand that a gun is different and held to a much higher standard but, that said, they are both mechanical devices with a known and acceptable failure rate. Your acceptable rate may be above or below the median for each of those different machines but they are both machines plain and simple.

False analogy.

You use your car every single day. You don't with your gun.

If you want to use that type of analogy. Use it with the air bag. Don't use it every day. It's there just in case you need it. Same as a gun.

Comparing a gun to a car is false.

Comparing a car to a safe is more like it.


Again, airbag. Don't always use it..There when you may need it. You pray to whatever you hold sacred to not ever need it.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 10:13 AM   #33
BILLG
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 12, 2000
Posts: 210
You guys with your 100% guns are living in a fairy tale world.Because all weapons can fail it is a fact of life.Practice your mal function drills and don't be caught with your pants down.Even revolvers can fail be prepared.My suggestion is to practice your mal functon drills and always carry a back up.
BILLG is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 10:31 AM   #34
allaroundhunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
I swap it out until I can diagnose and fix the problem. Your G19 seems to just need a new extractor.

Once that is done, I put about 200 rounds downrange to make sure the problem is fixed and carry it again.


*I had the same problem with my G19. I replaced it with an M&P9 and now switch between carrying each, and throw a 1911 into the mix quite often as well.

Last edited by allaroundhunter; November 30, 2012 at 10:10 AM. Reason: typo
allaroundhunter is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 10:46 AM   #35
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,429
Quote:
You guys with your 100% guns are living in a fairy tale world.Because all weapons can fail it is a fact of life.Practice your mal function drills and don't be caught with your pants down.Even revolvers can fail be prepared.My suggestion is to practice your mal functon drills and always carry a back up.
+1 academy training agrees. lol


Quote:
I swap it out until I can diagnose and fix the problem. Your G19 seems to just need a new ejector.

Once that is done, I put about 200 rounds downrange to make sure the problem is fixed and carry it again.


*I had the same problem with my G19. I replaced it with an M&P9 and now switch between carrying each, and throw a 1911 into the mix quite often as well.

Really? It's only about 1,000 rounds old. Seems right through..

Definitely test fire the hell out of my guns before I carry them for CCW or any other reason.

lol you sound like me. 2 9mm's and 1/2 .45's in my cycle as well.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 12:09 PM   #36
allaroundhunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 6, 2012
Location: Southeast Texas
Posts: 1,670
Quote:
lol you sound like me. 2 9mm's and 1/2 .45's in my cycle as well.
My 1911 is actually closer to 9mm..... .38 Super

Quote:
Really? It's only about 1,000 rounds old. Seems right through..
There were many problems with Gen 4 extractors (especially in 9mm).... I thought they had it fixed, but yours might have slipped through....
allaroundhunter is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 01:24 PM   #37
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,429
Darn. Mine is relatively new too. With the "dot" connector. Oh well...Guess I'll give Glock a call. Or look at a local smith over here. I'm not in a rush.
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 04:36 PM   #38
Nanuk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 2, 2005
Location: Where the deer and the antelope roam.
Posts: 3,082
Clear the malfunction and drive on.

Analyze the malfunction. Sounds like ammo or magazine issue without delving deeper into it.

Everything mechanical fails at some point and firearms are fairly complex. It is for this reason I carry a BUG.
__________________
Retired Law Enforcement
U. S. Army Veteran
Armorer
My rifle and pistol are tools, I am the weapon.
Nanuk is offline  
Old November 29, 2012, 05:24 PM   #39
scsov509
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 2006
Posts: 819
Quote:
There were many problems with Gen 4 extractors (especially in 9mm).... I thought they had it fixed, but yours might have slipped through....
+1, Similar problems have also been reported with the ejector and recoil spring assembly, although usually these don't start appearing until about 2,000 rounds or later. However, it's still something worth looking at as well.
scsov509 is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 04:06 PM   #40
Brian48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2001
Location: Boston, People's Republic of MA
Posts: 1,615
Quote:
Im with Deja Vu. I carry a 638 J Frame and thats one of the biggest reasons. I have in the past tried new carry pistols and have had a couple of malfunctions and when I did that pistol came all the way out of rotation. I know mechanical things mess up and there are alot of variables like ammo, bad mag...etc but once it happens its just something I personally dont feel comfortable with anymore. If I ever needed to use it the last thing I want going through my head id " I hope this thing works"...lol thats why I have stayed with the snubbie. I have never had a revolver break or malfunction on me yet.
+1
__________________
Proud to have served.
Brian48 is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 05:03 PM   #41
RC20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 10, 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 7,014
Quote:
To answer the OP's question, and not trying to sound snotty but I make it a point not to carry pistols that malfunction.
Well, not snotty but I would be seriously interested in your crystal ball that tells you when your gun is going to malfunction so you can be sure you are carrying one that does not? Wallmart sell those? Made in China?

You maintain the gun as best you can, and if it acts up and there is not a damned good reason (you correct and then test and prove it), it goes into the hold group until resolved.

Revolvers are probably (or were) more reliable than semi autos but they are not a guarantee though they sure don't have some failures.

I have carried a gun with fewer than 200 rounds for CC as I felt good about how it did.

Partly I go by feel and if I am wrong, so be it.

I had one failure in a semi auto and that was a gun that was kept around and simply not lubed (at the range where it occurred). It was one of my keep around guns.

It was huh?. Took it home, lubed, cleaned it and back to perfect function. Note to self, you can't just leave them unshot and unlubed for that long.

Live and learn.

No pat answer, do the best you can.
RC20 is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 06:58 PM   #42
Tinner666
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 12, 2012
Location: Richmond, Va.
Posts: 353
I had a few doubts when my new G26 stacked a few. Took a few more rounds to realize the wife only was having the issues. It was limp wristing and I was able to relax my wrist enough to duplicate the issue.
Thankfully, stacks and other FTF's have been few and far between with any of my pistols going back many years. Thankfully, I've never relied on the second or third shots, but I can clear it fast and naturally if necessary.
__________________
Frank--
Member, GoA, NRA-ILA, SAF, NRA Life Member
Tinner666 is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 08:28 PM   #43
LockedBreech
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Rocky Mountain West
Posts: 3,395
Carrying a backup is not feasible for me, I'm a professional and even when I'm not working I like to look sharp, so i will not and/or cannot dress around my weapon. That's why I like my little LCP so much. .380 is no powerhouse, but I practice regularly and can put all 7 on a small paper plate at 7 yards in a hurry. And most importantly I have the little thing tucked on me almost 24/7 because the whole package, loaded and chambered LCP + holster is only 13.3 ounces - by comparison my iPhone 4 with a Magpul case is 5.7 ounces and my Benchmade Mini-Grip EDC is 3.3 ounces.

Friend got a kitchen scale yesterday lol.
LockedBreech is offline  
Old November 30, 2012, 09:19 PM   #44
Tactical Jackalope
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2010
Location: Miami, Florida
Posts: 6,429
^^^ lmao that's awesome!


SIG 1911 XO - Custom SA Mil-Spec 1911 - Colt Golf Cup Trophy 1911 - Colt Series 70 1911 - SIG P226 e2 - BHP Stainless - BHP Blue - W. PPQ - Glock 17,34,19,21,22 - S&W M19-4 - Hk USP 40
Tactical Jackalope is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 08:27 PM   #45
1hogfan83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2011
Location: Fayetteville AR
Posts: 420
My gun will never fail. Its an HK
__________________
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe—and shudder. James 2:19
"I do not fear the man that practices ten thousand kicks one time, I fear the man that practices one kick ten thousand times." Bruce Lee
1hogfan83 is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 11:07 PM   #46
Stevie-Ray
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: The shores of Lake Huron
Posts: 4,783
Quote:
Do you swap it out with the next gun you're adequate with?

Do you not carry it until and X amount of rounds are run through it to ensure it's good to go?
Both of these, though I've yet to experience it. That's just what I plan to do if it ever happens. My Kimber UCDP has had no failures since the beginning 8 or 9 years ago. If it ever does, hopefully it'll be at the range, at which time I'll find out what's wrong and run at least another 100 rounds of Hydra-shoks through before I'll pronounce it GTG. In the meantime, I'll probably carry my Glock 26. I have several handguns that have never failed.

If it fails at the wrong time, I have to rely on my BUG, that is if I have time and option to deploy it.
__________________
Stevie-Ray
Join the NRA/ILA
I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.
Stevie-Ray is offline  
Old December 4, 2012, 12:22 AM   #47
Rob228
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2010
Location: Hampstead NC
Posts: 1,450
I run a malfunction drill and get it back into the fight. Then I assess what happened (ammo, magazine, weapon?) and keep shooting. If it goes through 100 or so rounds without the same malfunction it stays where it is.

Clearing the malfunction is something that is not practiced nearly enough. Those who only accept 100% reliability from their carry gun still need to practice clearing malfunctions just like those of us who realize that it is a machine that can malfunction at any given time.
Rob228 is offline  
Old December 4, 2012, 07:14 AM   #48
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 12,463
My first CCW gun was a Taurus M85. It froze up solid at around 250 rounds. I never trusted it after that and sold it off. It was replaced by a S&W 637 which has been flawless.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old December 4, 2012, 04:26 PM   #49
Coltman 77
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,244
RC 20: "
Quote:
Well, not snotty but I would be seriously interested in your crystal ball that tells you when your gun is going to malfunction so you can be sure you are carrying one that does not? Wallmart sell those? Made in China?
I use HK pistols genius.

Most reliable pistols on the planet, except possibly some Glock products.

(Of course no pistol is immune from malfunctions and I've been trained well to address those issues. )

BTW, I don't appreciate the nasty tone of your post at all.

Why not keep it constructive? We're all friends here.
__________________
"A man can be destroyed but not defeated".
Ernest Hemingway

Protect our 2nd Amendment Rights -- Join the NRA
Coltman 77 is offline  
Old December 4, 2012, 04:38 PM   #50
TunnelRat
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2011
Posts: 12,181
Quote:
I use HK pistols genius.

Most reliable pistols on the planet, except possibly some Glock products.

(Of course no pistol is immune from malfunctions and I've been trained well to address those issues. )

BTW, I don't appreciate the nasty tone of your post at all.

Why not keep it constructive? We're all friends here.
You complain about his tone then use the same when you call him a "genius"? That's real mature.

I also own HK pistols, 3 currently, and have owned another 4 in the past. I have seen them jam on occasion, as hard to believe as it might be. They may be less fallible than some other options out there, but no gun is infallible.
__________________
Know the status of your weapon
Keep your muzzle oriented so that no one will be hurt if the firearm discharges
Keep your finger off the trigger until you have an adequate sight picture
Maintain situational awareness

Last edited by TunnelRat; December 4, 2012 at 07:38 PM.
TunnelRat is offline  
Reply

Tags
ccw , malfunction

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:18 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.08792 seconds with 10 queries