Oswald, JFK, and the Italian Caranco

leadcounsel · November 2, 2013, 06:33 PM

I don't have any horse in this race, more just curious about what I think to be a flaw in the theory that Oswald acted alone.

It's based on Oswald and the rifle and the plan. These seem to be some of the weakest links factually (not theoretically) in the single shooter theory.

1. Apparently Oswald was a good marksman. But I believe that he would have trained on weapons the Marine Corp were using in 1956 and 1959. I'm thinking he likely would have tested with the M1 Garand or M1 Carbine, no? I've seen his score card, and he scored with these weapons. Perhaps he would have had exposure to the previous bolt US military bolt guns, too? The 1903 or the Eddystone. He was also left handed.

2. He purchased the Caranco in March '63, just 8 months prior to the assassination and witnesses said he barely shot it. Why would he not get and use a better rifle, or one with which he is more familiar? Why a 35+ year old bolt action for a lefty? Why not a semi-auto M1 Garand or Carbine with many immediate followups? A scope on a moving target 100 yards away is actually a hinderance and open sights on an M1 would be much easier to score multiple hits; fish in a barrel 8 times. Makes zero sense he would pick the rifle he did, especially as a lefty who has qualified expert on the M1 platform.

3. There are real flaws from picking the location, angle of approach vs. escape of the motorcade, etc. that any trained Marine would seem to plan differently. How did he know the President would be exposed? Not shielded by a roof or CIA agents on the bumpers? Why not shoot him as he's approaching and getting closer, versus driving away (giving you harder shots and more limited time)?

4. Finally, it just seems that the plan for a single shooter leaves a lot to chance and error. Different route, convertible car, speed, direction, misses, etc. It seems much more tactical and strategic to have multiple shooters to get the job done.

I know that the shots *can* be made and have been replicated. But if you're Oswald going into this, aren't you going to give yourself the best odds of success?

It should be noted that a lot of witnesses said they thought the shots came from the grassy knoll, and up to 11 shots fired.

Anyway, I've always thought that the technical aspects were some of the weakest points of the explanation of who and what was used and where the shots were fired from.

If not the M1 line, what would have been the better rifle options to ensure higher degree of success in 1963?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F....sination_rifle

http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-har...n-sharpshooter

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5725882

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcano

Ben Towe · November 2, 2013, 06:47 PM

It's not the rifle, it's the rifleman. A Carcano is certainly capable of making the shots. Look at the wounds on Kennedy. They are obviously rear entry.

Sierra280 · November 2, 2013, 07:03 PM

^^the video (that has been repeatedly analyzed) also shows they came from behind.

Not to change the subject but the shots Charles Whitman made with his 6mm Rem were more impressive.

noelf2 · November 2, 2013, 07:14 PM

Yep, you can't go wrong with a Regminton.

Glenn E. Meyer · November 2, 2013, 07:23 PM

We don't need a replay of JFK conspiracy theories.

Closed.

November 2, 2013, 06:33 PM	#1
leadcounsel Junior member Join Date: September 8, 2005 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 2,119	Oswald, JFK, and the Italian Caranco I don't have any horse in this race, more just curious about what I think to be a flaw in the theory that Oswald acted alone. It's based on Oswald and the rifle and the plan. These seem to be some of the weakest links factually (not theoretically) in the single shooter theory. 1. Apparently Oswald was a good marksman. But I believe that he would have trained on weapons the Marine Corp were using in 1956 and 1959. I'm thinking he likely would have tested with the M1 Garand or M1 Carbine, no? I've seen his score card, and he scored with these weapons. Perhaps he would have had exposure to the previous bolt US military bolt guns, too? The 1903 or the Eddystone. He was also left handed. 2. He purchased the Caranco in March '63, just 8 months prior to the assassination and witnesses said he barely shot it. Why would he not get and use a better rifle, or one with which he is more familiar? Why a 35+ year old bolt action for a lefty? Why not a semi-auto M1 Garand or Carbine with many immediate followups? A scope on a moving target 100 yards away is actually a hinderance and open sights on an M1 would be much easier to score multiple hits; fish in a barrel 8 times. Makes zero sense he would pick the rifle he did, especially as a lefty who has qualified expert on the M1 platform. 3. There are real flaws from picking the location, angle of approach vs. escape of the motorcade, etc. that any trained Marine would seem to plan differently. How did he know the President would be exposed? Not shielded by a roof or CIA agents on the bumpers? Why not shoot him as he's approaching and getting closer, versus driving away (giving you harder shots and more limited time)? 4. Finally, it just seems that the plan for a single shooter leaves a lot to chance and error. Different route, convertible car, speed, direction, misses, etc. It seems much more tactical and strategic to have multiple shooters to get the job done. I know that the shots can be made and have been replicated. But if you're Oswald going into this, aren't you going to give yourself the best odds of success? It should be noted that a lot of witnesses said they thought the shots came from the grassy knoll, and up to 11 shots fired. Anyway, I've always thought that the technical aspects were some of the weakest points of the explanation of who and what was used and where the shots were fired from. If not the M1 line, what would have been the better rifle options to ensure higher degree of success in 1963? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F....sination_rifle http://22november1963.org.uk/lee-har...n-sharpshooter http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/5725882 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carcano

November 2, 2013, 06:47 PM	#2
Ben Towe Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2009 Location: Middle Tennessee Posts: 1,128	It's not the rifle, it's the rifleman. A Carcano is certainly capable of making the shots. Look at the wounds on Kennedy. They are obviously rear entry. __________________ 'Merica: Back to back World War Champs

November 2, 2013, 07:14 PM	#4
noelf2 Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2008 Location: Stuart, VA Posts: 2,473	Yep, you can't go wrong with a Regminton. __________________ Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

November 2, 2013, 07:23 PM	#5
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	We don't need a replay of JFK conspiracy theories. Closed. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

November 2, 2013, 07:03 PM	#3
Sierra280 Junior member Join Date: July 29, 2013 Location: Gardnerville, NV Posts: 569	^^the video (that has been repeatedly analyzed) also shows they came from behind. Not to change the subject but the shots Charles Whitman made with his 6mm Rem were more impressive.