Ordered my 1851 .36 Navy today and ... - Page 7

Old Dragoon · January 9, 2006, 11:33 PM

Oldelm,
I think I edited it to say Bolt.
The bolt has two "forks at the rear above the mtg screw(bolt and trigger screw)that slide up beside the hammer and are activated by the hammer cam these were spread and bent in my pistol.

The screw that attaches the hand to the hammer is what I refer to as the hand screw. Mine was half way through the hand or more and stuck out the back side of the hammer near the cam so it bound the bolt forks or at least one, when cocked and bent the forks. May not be the correct terminology. I just calls them as I sees them. LOL

In my pistols the sides of the bolt that protrude from the frame are perpendicular to the frame bottom, like the picture of your Uberti bolt. Your
" Shooter" appears that the bolt sides are NOT perpendicular to the frame. That the bolt is cocked in the frame somehow...may be the forks are bent.

Smokin_Gun · January 9, 2006, 11:46 PM

Wayne Iread it but I can't believe it...you want a what? LoL! How can you not I am about ready to pilage every 7-11 in town to get one..but I won't, you know my luck. And I'd rather be shootin.

Old Dragoon and Mec good info and pics. Yor LiL Angels is a big hit Old Dragoon... but if you won't give that one up I'd surely love to have the Big angel with the ejector...HeHe!

Oldelm congradulations and owning a "Shooters REM" and a good one too!
I just tuned my old Armi San Paolo Rem when cleaning it from the shoot that Old Dragoon and I had. Got that bolt popin up there better than ever now.
I didn't undrstand when you said yours was crooked...or I would a said somethin...bet you're glad..

Oldelm · January 9, 2006, 11:49 PM

Old Dragoon,......ok,... yup, I see what you're saying now. Yes, the sides on the Shooters bolt being at a slant makes me wonder about what's causing that. I'll have to get in there and take it apart and see what's happening, but thanks for the heads-up on that possible problem. Now I'm better prepared to know what to look for.

Smokin,.....thanks! I think this Shooters Rem is gonna work out ok, thanks to all yous folks suggestions, tips, encouragement.

What's the difference between Armi San Paolo ...and Armi San Marco? Was wondering.

Old Dragoon · January 10, 2006, 12:04 AM

Nope, NO! NADA, don't wanna let that "angel" go either, nor the shiny blue one.
I do have a question though, when you were shooting the little "Angle" did your sight picture stay the same as you used with your Sn paolo??? or was it flat across the top of the sights??? Tryuing to figure if i need to remove some off the top of the front sight. You shot it better than I did.
I loved the shots from the Blue gun hit that juice bottle, then when it stopped, hit it again, and again when it stopped, and again, and once thru it. Darn I was proud of that, and the gun. The one with the ejector shot as good too.
I'll get the kinks out of the "Avangeing Angel" and I'll be able to shoot it that well too. Had a great time.
Be looking for you Sunday at the CAS match. We start at 9:00 A.M.

Smokin_Gun · January 10, 2006, 12:05 AM

Differant companies Oldelm, ASM was bought out by Uberti, ASP was bought by Euroarms around 2000. The Euro and Paolos are smaller framed and I believe more the size of the Originals...Old Dragoon can you verify that. Anyway both Armi San Paolo and Euroarms are a high end product.

Smokin_Gun · January 10, 2006, 12:08 AM

With yours I held flat across with the sights and at the bottom of target at 25 yards. With my ASP front site at the bottom of the rear and about 4" below the target bottom at 25 yards.

Old Dragoon · January 10, 2006, 12:09 AM

I cannot for sure verify that, but it looked and felt like my old original. I love the feel of that pistol! You shot her good too.
I know one thing...I'm scouring the auctions for a San Paolo Remmy....LOL

Smokin_Gun · January 10, 2006, 12:14 AM

I'd love to have a pair a them ASPs... I may buy a Euroarms one someday they aren't that much more expensive. I have talk to them via email the were very nice and said the Euro parts would inter cahnge with the ASP and sent me a parts list to order from... They are the same frame size so maybe the same tooling is bein used and called Euroarms now...don't know for sure...

Oldelm · January 10, 2006, 03:11 PM

Smokin,.....Here's a question for you about the Euroarms/ASP '58 Rem Armys. Would they accept the Kirst .44 Colt conversion cyl., and if so, .....the Pietta or Uberti flavor? Just wondering.

Old Dragoon · January 10, 2006, 03:20 PM

Oldelm,
SG and I tried to see if my Kirst would fit his ASP and it would not the length of the cylinder is different, not much, and the Kirst started to go in but was bound by , either the hand or the bbl or both. That close but no cigar. The cylinder Dia may be different also, didn't get it in far enough to tell.

Smokin_Gun · January 10, 2006, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Smokin,.....Here's a question for you about the Euroarms/ASP '58 Rem Armys. Would they accept the Kirst .44 Colt conversion cyl., and if so, .....the Pietta or Uberti flavor? Just wondering.

Nope won't fit not even the c&b cyl.s but R&D Gunshop said they'd make me what I wanted if I sent my Gun I to them. They said that about ASM's I imagine Euroarms or ASP wouldn't make a differance. And at the same price as what ever caliber or model I'd choose was selling for. I thought that was a right nice offer from them. I think that email was from the owner direct can't recall his name. If I ordered a new Euroarms I might do it. But I think I'll go with the Kirst 6 shot .44Rem for noe...for today anyway...HeHe!

mec · January 10, 2006, 05:30 PM

"Mec, the pics of the old Remington are cool. Was FFg powder used because of the age of the revolver? Are you pointing out that maybe the originals had chambers close to or a little over the groove diameters in the barrels? I've wanted to know what originals had in the grooves and chambers for a long time. Especially the Colts: et al."

A guy sent me those because he knew I was intersted in the chamber diameter. So far as I know, he didn't measure the bore. Years before he had shot it with .454 or .451 ball and got a chain fire that un-nerved him. This time, he got some .457s and shot the targets you see. so far as revolvers go, the idea situation is that the chamber mouths should not be smaller than the largest portion of the bore. you want the bullet to be oversize or bore size when it enters so that you wont have to depend on obturation for a good seal or have the hot powder gasses escaping past an undersized bullet.
this is true for modern revolvers and I suspect represents the ideal for Percussion. However if the Revolver works and shoots accurately, I don't worry about it. My Uberti chambers and barrel throats all measure .450 either across the diameter or a pounded slug. There is the possiblity that I could be off .001 either way as I am no great shakes with a caliper. Nevertheless, all of these revolvers regularly turn in groups that would shame a lot of mid -20th century target revolvers. -- Not quite as often as a k 38, not evey time I whack away at a target, but regularly enough for me not to worry about whether or not I'm shooting an accurate revolver.

Oldelm · January 10, 2006, 05:44 PM

Ole Dragoon & Smokin,.......that's too bad you just about got the Kirst cylinder into the ASP, but not quite. It'd be interesting to compare cyl. dia of the Kirst 6 shot .44 to the c&b cyl. of the ASP..

Quote:

But I think I'll go with the Kirst 6 shot .44Rem for noe...for today anyway...HeHe!

In what frame will you put that?

Smokin_Gun · January 10, 2006, 06:10 PM

I'll be puttin that in Dave's Uberti when it gets here... screw the bore size...HeHe. Thanks to your target pic I made up my mind .456 is fine with me

I think I will be getting a clip pin also and removing the lever till I make or buy an ejector and tube...

Oldelm · January 10, 2006, 06:43 PM

Smokin,..oooooh, now I see! That Uberti should be a good candidate for the 6 shot .44 Rem Kirst. Well, one never knows, .....the bore on the soon to be yours Uberti just may be smaller than .456. There was a guy over on the SASS forum not too long ago that said he had an Uberti .44 Rem with a pretty small bore,...can't remember what it was. He even got Alchemista (aka Pietta) to post in the thread a bit about the bore sizes of Piettas. Anyway,..I'll be curious as to what your new Rem sluggs at.

Smokin_Gun · January 10, 2006, 06:57 PM

Ok Oldelm I'll have to check that out... I most definately will gently push the hell outta one a them .490 balls down it and let you know...
thanks fur yur support! LoL!

January 9, 2006, 11:46 PM	#152
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Wayne Iread it but I can't believe it...you want a what? LoL! How can you not I am about ready to pilage every 7-11 in town to get one..but I won't, you know my luck. And I'd rather be shootin. Old Dragoon and Mec good info and pics. Yor LiL Angels is a big hit Old Dragoon... but if you won't give that one up I'd surely love to have the Big angel with the ejector...HeHe! Oldelm congradulations and owning a "Shooters REM" and a good one too! I just tuned my old Armi San Paolo Rem when cleaning it from the shoot that Old Dragoon and I had. Got that bolt popin up there better than ever now. I didn't undrstand when you said yours was crooked...or I would a said somethin...bet you're glad.. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

January 10, 2006, 12:05 AM	#155
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Differant companies Oldelm, ASM was bought out by Uberti, ASP was bought by Euroarms around 2000. The Euro and Paolos are smaller framed and I believe more the size of the Originals...Old Dragoon can you verify that. Anyway both Armi San Paolo and Euroarms are a high end product. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

January 10, 2006, 12:08 AM	#156
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	With yours I held flat across with the sights and at the bottom of target at 25 yards. With my ASP front site at the bottom of the rear and about 4" below the target bottom at 25 yards. __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

January 10, 2006, 12:14 AM	#158
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I'd love to have a pair a them ASPs... I may buy a Euroarms one someday they aren't that much more expensive. I have talk to them via email the were very nice and said the Euro parts would inter cahnge with the ASP and sent me a parts list to order from... They are the same frame size so maybe the same tooling is bein used and called Euroarms now...don't know for sure... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

January 10, 2006, 06:10 PM	#164
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I'll be puttin that in Dave's Uberti when it gets here... screw the bore size...HeHe. Thanks to your target pic I made up my mind .456 is fine with me I think I will be getting a clip pin also and removing the lever till I make or buy an ejector and tube... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

January 9, 2006, 11:33 PM	#151
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Oldelm, I think I edited it to say Bolt. The bolt has two "forks at the rear above the mtg screw(bolt and trigger screw)that slide up beside the hammer and are activated by the hammer cam these were spread and bent in my pistol. The screw that attaches the hand to the hammer is what I refer to as the hand screw. Mine was half way through the hand or more and stuck out the back side of the hammer near the cam so it bound the bolt forks or at least one, when cocked and bent the forks. May not be the correct terminology. I just calls them as I sees them. LOL In my pistols the sides of the bolt that protrude from the frame are perpendicular to the frame bottom, like the picture of your Uberti bolt. Your " Shooter" appears that the bolt sides are NOT perpendicular to the frame. That the bolt is cocked in the frame somehow...may be the forks are bent.

January 9, 2006, 11:49 PM	#153
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	Old Dragoon,......ok,... yup, I see what you're saying now. Yes, the sides on the Shooters bolt being at a slant makes me wonder about what's causing that. I'll have to get in there and take it apart and see what's happening, but thanks for the heads-up on that possible problem. Now I'm better prepared to know what to look for. Smokin,.....thanks! I think this Shooters Rem is gonna work out ok, thanks to all yous folks suggestions, tips, encouragement. What's the difference between Armi San Paolo ...and Armi San Marco? Was wondering.

January 10, 2006, 12:04 AM	#154
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Nope, NO! NADA, don't wanna let that "angel" go either, nor the shiny blue one. I do have a question though, when you were shooting the little "Angle" did your sight picture stay the same as you used with your Sn paolo??? or was it flat across the top of the sights??? Tryuing to figure if i need to remove some off the top of the front sight. You shot it better than I did. I loved the shots from the Blue gun hit that juice bottle, then when it stopped, hit it again, and again when it stopped, and again, and once thru it. Darn I was proud of that, and the gun. The one with the ejector shot as good too. I'll get the kinks out of the "Avangeing Angel" and I'll be able to shoot it that well too. Had a great time. Be looking for you Sunday at the CAS match. We start at 9:00 A.M.

January 10, 2006, 12:09 AM	#157
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	I cannot for sure verify that, but it looked and felt like my old original. I love the feel of that pistol! You shot her good too. I know one thing...I'm scouring the auctions for a San Paolo Remmy....LOL

January 10, 2006, 03:11 PM	#159
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	Smokin,.....Here's a question for you about the Euroarms/ASP '58 Rem Armys. Would they accept the Kirst .44 Colt conversion cyl., and if so, .....the Pietta or Uberti flavor? Just wondering.

January 10, 2006, 03:20 PM	#160
Old Dragoon Senior Member Join Date: October 31, 2005 Location: The Republic of Californi Posts: 581	Oldelm, SG and I tried to see if my Kirst would fit his ASP and it would not the length of the cylinder is different, not much, and the Kirst started to go in but was bound by , either the hand or the bbl or both. That close but no cigar. The cylinder Dia may be different also, didn't get it in far enough to tell.

January 10, 2006, 05:30 PM	#162
mec Junior member Join Date: December 6, 2001 Posts: 1,536	"Mec, the pics of the old Remington are cool. Was FFg powder used because of the age of the revolver? Are you pointing out that maybe the originals had chambers close to or a little over the groove diameters in the barrels? I've wanted to know what originals had in the grooves and chambers for a long time. Especially the Colts: et al." A guy sent me those because he knew I was intersted in the chamber diameter. So far as I know, he didn't measure the bore. Years before he had shot it with .454 or .451 ball and got a chain fire that un-nerved him. This time, he got some .457s and shot the targets you see. so far as revolvers go, the idea situation is that the chamber mouths should not be smaller than the largest portion of the bore. you want the bullet to be oversize or bore size when it enters so that you wont have to depend on obturation for a good seal or have the hot powder gasses escaping past an undersized bullet. this is true for modern revolvers and I suspect represents the ideal for Percussion. However if the Revolver works and shoots accurately, I don't worry about it. My Uberti chambers and barrel throats all measure .450 either across the diameter or a pounded slug. There is the possiblity that I could be off .001 either way as I am no great shakes with a caliper. Nevertheless, all of these revolvers regularly turn in groups that would shame a lot of mid -20th century target revolvers. -- Not quite as often as a k 38, not evey time I whack away at a target, but regularly enough for me not to worry about whether or not I'm shooting an accurate revolver.

January 10, 2006, 06:43 PM	#165
Oldelm Member Join Date: December 14, 2005 Posts: 62	Smokin,..oooooh, now I see! That Uberti should be a good candidate for the 6 shot .44 Rem Kirst. Well, one never knows, .....the bore on the soon to be yours Uberti just may be smaller than .456. There was a guy over on the SASS forum not too long ago that said he had an Uberti .44 Rem with a pretty small bore,...can't remember what it was. He even got Alchemista (aka Pietta) to post in the thread a bit about the bore sizes of Piettas. Anyway,..I'll be curious as to what your new Rem sluggs at.

January 10, 2006, 06:57 PM	#166
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Ok Oldelm I'll have to check that out... I most definately will gently push the hell outta one a them .490 balls down it and let you know... thanks fur yur support! LoL! __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php