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September 14, 2009, 12:00 AM | #1 |
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Trouble with an apparent contradiction...
What am I missing here? I've never hunted due to the lack of opportunity, though I'm sure it would be a good time. Since I started shooting a rifle I have always read and heard that a hunting rifle need not be as "accurate" as a target grade rifle. But yet they say, "Bullet placement is everything!" Doesn't bullet placement rely somewhat on having a load you trust to get to the point of aim accurately? consistantly? Or am I just pikin' nits? I would think that a target rifle would be a good choice for hunting, say, medium size game out to 200yds. Or is the weight of a target rifle an issue? Just wondering.
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September 14, 2009, 12:06 AM | #2 |
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Weight is the issue....
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September 14, 2009, 01:01 AM | #3 |
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Things that make a target rifle accurate, add weight that is not wanted on a hunting rifle.
Two inches from the center of a target and you lose the match. Two inches from the center of the target on a deer and you still have venison. |
September 14, 2009, 01:24 AM | #4 |
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A target rifle is built heavy---heavy barrel, over-sized stock, and so on. It's all about providing the most steady platform to deliver the tightest group on target at prescribed ranges. Now... That being said, accuracy counts big-time with hunting---yes, is all about shot placement. BUT, do you really want to pack that 15-pound percision target rifle that you just spent 4K to build with $1,500 worth of nikon or swarovski optics up and down the mountains in less-than-fun weather/terrain/etc. to get your deer? Didn't think so. Yes, percision counts in hunting. But it's a beast of a different nature. Use the tools that get the job done and you'll do just fine.
My son shoots incredible sub-MOA groups with all my target rifles. This year he's using my Mosin M-91 when we go for elk (a $200 battle-axe that happens to be tight-grouping with his trigger-pull) and I have no doubt there will be meat in the freezer from both of us.
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September 14, 2009, 07:15 AM | #5 |
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On a whitetail deer, your target is the lungs. The lungs are the size of a 10 inch circle, maybe bigger.
Any hit in the lungs and you have a dead deer. So, the lungs provide a bigger target than you have in target shooting. On an elk, the lungs are lots bigger. |
September 14, 2009, 09:01 AM | #6 |
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I took the rifle I was building into a target rifle hunting with me one time. Never doing that again. As previously stated the added weight is not worth the added accuracy. Now I suppose that comes into play more depending on what you hunt. If I was out west hunting prarie dogs it's alot different than tracking elk up and down mountains. Also prarie dogs are slightly smaller than elk.
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September 14, 2009, 09:16 AM | #7 | |
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September 14, 2009, 09:23 AM | #8 |
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You'll lose more than you gain in accuracy from using a heavy target rifle. I guess it would be OK if you are stricty hunting from a stand. Otherwise, you'll shake more when you try to make a free-hand or other kind of shot in the field from carrying around and holding that heavy rifle than you would from a lighter weight hunting rifle.
Sorry, that's not a very clear post..... |
September 14, 2009, 10:06 AM | #9 | ||
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With a hit with enough velocity for hydrostatic shock is what I want. If not enough shock, the blood trail could be a long one. Quote:
From my experience, the light weight rifles are the hard ones to hold still for a free hand (standing, unsupported) shot. I like a heavy long octagon front stuffing barreled rifle with a chunk of rock that ignites a wonderful cloud of sweet smelling smoke. The range has to be very close for the velocity to do what is needed to be done. But that's just MHO!
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September 14, 2009, 10:25 AM | #10 | |
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To the OP... The others are correct. "Accuracy" is just as important (I would say more so) in hunting as it is in target shooting except that "accuracy" does not have the same meaning. No need for one ragged hole from a hunting gun. "Accurate" may mean a 2,3 maybe 4 inch group. Personally, I want better than that but truthfully I don't NEED better than that.
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September 14, 2009, 11:12 AM | #11 |
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Heavy is your enemy
My first 280 was a 26" heavy sporter contour. It was very comfortable, accurate, and impressive at the chrony. Hunting, however, was misery. Took it once, sent the barrel back to Shaw for fluting, hunted again, and gave it to my son.
Got a Ruger Hawkeye with 22" barrel and love it. Only gives up 100fps in 22". |
September 19, 2009, 09:47 PM | #12 |
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Thanks to all. It all makes sense.
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September 19, 2009, 10:22 PM | #13 |
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With a target rifle, a win may be decided by a hairs width, with a hunting rifle the target is much less easy to delineate- a bullet anywhere within the 'boiler room' will do the job.
I personally like full wood carbines, generally these are not as accurate as sporter stocked rifles, but the deer don't know the difference. As has been pointed out, weight and ease of carry is a huge factor as is the round used- a target bullet just needs to cut paper, whereas a hunting bullet needs to have enough retained energy to penetrate and inflict a terminal injury, of necessity the hunting round will kick more and be harder to shoot accurately |
September 20, 2009, 02:58 PM | #14 | ||
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Quote:
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"9mm has a very long history of being a pointy little bullet moving quickly" --Sevens |
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September 21, 2009, 03:36 PM | #15 | |
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Shot through the lungs? Every deer ran, usually 40 yards give or take, and a few over 100 yards. See the difference? There isn't one. The only way to stop a deer Dead Right There is brain or spine. Neither of which is easy enough to hit consistently to be universally acceptable. Lung shots are just like heart shots except they ruin less meat, including the heart if you are inclined to eat it.
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September 21, 2009, 06:18 PM | #16 | |
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By far, the deer I've shot through the chest never took a step after being hit. Bang-flops for me are the norm, rather than the exception. I can only remember one deer that even took a step after being hit, and I shot him again as he walked (quartering) towards me, and again when he turned once again broadside. I doubt the last shot was needed, but I was far enough from the truck that I didn't want to chase him. Since it went into the same spot as the first shot, it didn't damage much more meat (behind the shoulder anyway, so not much to lose). Other's mileage will vary, I'm sure. Daryl |
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September 21, 2009, 06:40 PM | #17 | |
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September 21, 2009, 06:56 PM | #18 |
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If you are like me and not a wimp, and can travel 15 miles into the wilderness with a 460 wby mag with a bull barrel and a ginormous scope and carry it AND your deer back out, then there is no issue
It's generally only the super serious target guy's that are afraid to hunt with their target gun's that I've ever met. My father & Uncle use theirs. My other shooter friends use their target gun's for shooting game also. Just get used to carrying it and have a good time. |
September 21, 2009, 07:11 PM | #19 | |
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A 100 grain .243 bullet at 3150-3250 FPS at the muzzle usually drops them in their tracks out to 300 yards. A 145 grain 7mm bullet at 3150 fps at the muzzle does the same thing at 500 yards. Or, that's been my experience. Depending on the bullet used, of course, but that's another debate I suppose. The neck shot is certainly effective, but I can only remember doing it once. I had a choice between that and a "Texas heart shot" on a coues deer buck at ~10 yards with a 7mm mag, and took the neck shot. Usually, I aim for the chest. Daryl |
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September 21, 2009, 08:36 PM | #20 | |
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That "big hole" is a lot bigger than .74 inches, believe me. The only way a bullet makes a hole bigger than it's own size is hydrostatic pressure. Yes, a 12ga blows right in one side and out the other, almost without exception, but it still imparts one HELL of a lot of energy in the target. In any case, there is nothing particularly special about blowing a hole in the heart that would cause an animal to DRT. The only logical cause is two broken legs.... which WILL cause an animal to drop on the spot and if there is also a hole through the heart then it will be dead before it can try to get back up. However, now we're back at all kinds of bloody meat which is something that MOST hunters would prefer to avoid. Also, an animal that runs 100 yards or less and leaves a blood trail 4 or 5 feet wide, which is typical of a lung shot, is not really a problem to recover.
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