Border Patrol Writes Letter to Military Officer's Commander - Conduct Unbecoming?

[VAPA]

The letter was recently released to the public. The letter was written by a senior ranking Border Patrol official to the officer's commander after a thirty-five minute unlawful seizure at a checkpoint. The incident was captured on five cameras and has been previous discussed on this board: http://thefiringline.com/forums/show...=410576&page=7

The letter to the driver's military commander (and the video) has been recently released here: http://www.veteransagainstpoliceabus...derPatrol.aspx

The letter claims the officer's conduct was unbecoming a military officer, while the military officer claims his civil rights were violated.

[jgcoastie]

If I "catch" a Kodiak city councilman with a BUI during a boarding, should I call the mayor?

No, that is not my job. My job is to enforce applicable laws, statutes, and regulations. If there is probable cause to effect an arrest, I will do so. Then the alleged offender gets their day in court. The impact of an arrest on their job/career is none of my business, nor does it even slightly weigh on my mind in an official capacity.

If there is no probable cause to effect an arrest, said person(s) will be on their way. Simple as that.

CBP was completely in the wrong in this case and further displayed the position of their head's up their collective orifices by sending that letter to his CO. Furthermore, the decision of whether or not the individual conducted himself in a manner unbecoming an officer is not at the discretion of a Border Patrol station supervisor.

Even further, if all information regarding the location is correct, all that would be reasonably necessary to "prove" citizenship would be a DL or Military ID. How many people within 100 miles of the border routinely carry a passport for proof of citizenship? Nowhere near a majority, I can just about guarantee it. So when he showed his DL & Military ID, the BP agents could have just asked to see them to ensure they were valid. When asked to produce the passports for inspection, the individual handed them over promptly. I have no reason to believe he would not have handed over the other ID's in the same manner. According to the full-length video, he was never asked to hand over the other ID's because they were not proof of citizenship. Since when do I need proof of citizenship (other than two separate forms of gov't issued ID) to travel freely within the U.S.???

I didn't know you needed a passport to drive down highways in Texas...

Seems like a major case of stupidity. Was the individual agitated, possibly even mildly confrontational? Sure. Was anything he did illegal? As far as I can tell, no. Any articulate-able justifiable question or action directed by the agents was answered promptly and accurately by the individual.

[Double Naught Spy]

Even further, if all information regarding the location is correct, all that would be reasonably necessary to "prove" citizenship would be a DL or Military ID.

The only problem there is that a DL or military ID don't prove citizenship. I know at least a couple of aliens that have DLs that are not citizens of the US.

I don't see how such checkpoints actually work in regard to determining citizenship. Very few US citizens traveling within the US carry any ID that proves their citizenship. So I can't figure out how they could determine if I was a citizen or not based on the cursory interviews they do. I could just as well be an illegal Canadian as a US citizen and they would not be able to discern the difference.

[VAPA]

Military IDs prove legal immigration status. In the case of military officers, it also proves American citizenship.

[CWO4USCGRET]

The party in the first part and the party in the second part both made poor choices in that incident.

Under federal law border patrol can set up checkpoints to conduct their mission.

Without knowing any previous history I don't know what motivated him to act the way he did nor can I completely give a hearty pat on the Border Patrol Agents actions either. I didn't hear BP ask his citizenship right off the bat; and the driver was, in my opinion, deliberate in his action to be difficult.

One of the most valuable tools a BP Agent or CBP Officer at a border crossing has is their ability to interview a traveler. This traveler did have an agenda; he baited his hook and caught the fish he was after.

If someone were to act like he was acting, while at my booth on the border, he would have been sent into secondary for a closer look; asked to exit his vehicle and sent inside. I know that the checkpoints away from the border are different and are limited in what they are doing - they do have the legal right to develop some or reasonable suspicion about a situation. Although his windows weren't heavily tinted, I've had to take a driver and his passenger from an suv that the tint was so dark you could not see in the vehicle. First thing was to order the driver to put his windows down...for officer safety.

Yes it is a PITA to have to stop at a Immigration Checkpoint, and yes the Agent forgot to ask the key question regarding citizenship, but the driver could have been more cooperative. I suspect the video will be shown to BP Agent trainees as what not to do and then a discussion on how that type of stop could be handled better.

I have no doubts however that the BP's action to call his CO and complain was wrong. The driver is right - if the question isn't germaine to the purpose of the checkpoint, i.e., citizenship, then the question shouldn't be asked.

Crossing into Canada several people I know have been asked if they own firearms. Canada requires you to declare all weapons, including firearms when entering Canada. Ask me if I have any firearms in my possession - I won't have any on me or in my car going to Canada; and I will answer a question asking me if I have any weapons in the car, but I won't answer the other question. I will get sent to secondary and I will ask to speak with a Superintendent/Supervisor and complain that I am being questioned about things that are not part of my crossing the border.

Both sides in this incident did wrong things.

[everragenepa]

I am watching the video an

[gyvel]

Potentially, AUDIO recording without informing the person being recorded could be a problem.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by gyvel

Potentially, AUDIO recording without informing the person being recorded could be a problem.

Why? It's not against Texas law, and it's not against Federal law.

The Border Patrol blew it, big time, and if I knew the officer's name and unit I would write to his superior officer and register a complaint that he was disciplined. I've been through one of those checkpoints. Mercifully, in my case the BP did their job correctly and I was on my way within a few seconds. But ... those checkpoints are NOT about citizenship. ALL they are allowed to do is inquire about immigration status, meaning determine whether or not the persion (or people) are in the U.S. legally. One does not have to be a citizen to be here legally.

A military ID is conclusive proof that someone is in the U.S. legally. The fact that the ID shows the guy is an officer is conclusive proof that he's a citizen.

Shame on the BP.

[nate45]

I've been through BP check stations many, many times. In TX, NM, AZ & CA, I've never had a problem. I roll my window all the way down, before I get to the agent and I'm polite.

I don't believe they ever thought he was a non-citizen. I believe they suspected he might be carrying contraband. Due to his demeanor and failure to fully roll down his window.

Now, in my opinion the BP in this incident went completely overboard in their zeal to find something. They clearly stepped out of the boundaries laid down by the SCOTUS. Subsequently their efforts at CYA have only made them look worse.

[Conn. Trooper]

A military ID is conclusive proof that someone is in the U.S. legally. The fact that the ID shows the guy is an officer is conclusive proof that he's a citizen.

Shame on the BP.

And how do you know the military ID is real? ID's are faked all the time, even military ID's.

The guy went out of his way to be confrontational and got the reaction he wanted. Did the Border Patrol do everything right? I don't know, what are they allowed to do in the course of their lawful duties? Did they do things wrong, maybe? But cops look for things that are out of the ordinary, this guy was way out of the ordinary. They tried looking further, he didn't cooperate. I would have immediately shown my drivers license and military ID and been on my way.

[BGutzman]

A real military id is easy to prove and I wont go into it because its not appropriate to this forum or even public consumption. For myself I think this was contempt of cop pure and simple.

BP blew it.

[Conn. Trooper]

Maybe if they had been provided with it. Stuck in the window doesn't really allow for examination. I worked outside a large post, military id's are faked all the time. Usually to change a DOB in order to buy or drink booze off post. I don't think either side put on a stellar performance.

[BGutzman]

The other interesting part to know would be was the military officer was in his own personal vehicle. If so then there is a high likely hood that it also had a seperate military sticker set that on a certain location that should have been visible to all but the dead.

I do not believe (maybe wrongly but i doubt it) that most people also fake the id on the vehicle also. Also for the sake of being fair the military vehicle id does not identify to a normal LE who owns the vehicle but I think with a personal id and the id sticker on the vehicle (if it was there) would make it more than reasonable that the person was in the military or a dependent of the military.

[VAPA]

"So when he showed his DL & Military ID, the BP agents could have just asked to see them to ensure they were valid. When asked to produce the passports for inspection, the individual handed them over promptly. I have no reason to believe he would not have handed over the other ID's in the same manner."

Concur with Coastie. Also, the driver was going for his ID before he was asked for them. After he put them on the window (and the agents were satisfied with viewing them through the window apparently), the agent then says that they are irrelevant because they're not immigration docs. So then the driver says "do you want a passport" and the agent ignores it. Finally the driver of his own accord puts his two passports on the window which go unnoticed for several minutes until the supervisor finally asks for them, and he gives them to him.

I think the most telling part of the BP's agenda in this incident is that not only do they all but ignore the question of his immigration status, but at the end the supervisor has both his passports in his hand, both IDs in the window, says "let me check out your passports and we'll get you on your way" but then goes off way into the left field of harassment when the driver says he can prove his account because he was recording. DHS doesn't like to be recorded and your rights certainly don't matter to some of these agents, reference here and here. With all that info (not to mention answering yes to the citizenship question once it was finally asked more than ten minutes into the detention), the BP still takes another fifteen minutes to "verify" his passports and calls his military commander in the process. Who knows how long it took for the bigshot Chief Patrol Agent Robert Harris to write the three page letter after the fact (if that doesn't show their true intention, I'm not sure what does).

[hogdogs]

After he put them on the window (and the agents were satisfied with viewing them through the window apparently), the agent then says that they are irrelevant because they're not immigration docs.

Us natural born citizens shall not be required to prove citizenship... that was what my CIVICS 101 teacher taught us...

The physical possession of the DL is not required to drive... I have gone years just tellin' the officer the number and no problems...

So were these BP agents doing ID checks, immigration status checks or Fake ID task force...

I also feel that we shouldn't have a BORDER CHECKPOINT that is more than spittin' distance from the border!

Brent

[Conn. Trooper]

Brent, depends where you live. Here in CT you have to carry youur license and provide it to police. I am prety sure there is no federal code to provide for drivers licenses, that is a state function, but some places you have to have it.

[hogdogs]

Here in FL. we are supposed to carry it... I just learned that I could recite the number and better than 90% of the time, the officer would drop the speeding/rolling stop/redlight running/failure to yeild ticket and write me for "DL not carried" which required I go to the S.O. dept. and show my valid DL and pay a $5.00 "handling fee"...

But my point is that our federal rights once stated that if born here we were not required to carry "papers" to identify our self or some such... Unless my civics book and teacher were wrong.... I do admit i often had my mind elsewhere so I might have missed some details...

Brent

[VAPA]

Here is some really interesting stuff from the Border Patrol's own official Inspector's Field Manual. The BP tried to keep this from being released, but eventually a lawyer got it through FOIA. VERY interesting read as it's actually a bit more restrictive than even the case law. You can read the manual in PDF format here: Border Patrol Inspector's Field Manual (2008)


"18.6(E) Checkpoints:


The Border Patrol conducts two types of inland traffic-checking operations: checkpoints and roving patrols. Border Patrol agents can make routine vehicle stops without any suspicion to inquire into citizenship and immigration status at a reasonably located permanent or temporary checkpoint provided the checkpoint is used for the purpose of determining citizenship of those who pass through it, and not for the general search for those persons or the vehicle. Inquiries must be brief and limited to the immigration status of the occupants of the vehicle. The only permissible search is a “plain view” inspection to ascertain whether there are any concealed illegal aliens."

- Customs & Border Protection, Inspector's Field Manual (2008)


"18.7(B) Reasonable Suspicion:

Before an inspector may constitutionally detain a person (non-entry related case), the inspector must have reasonable suspicion that the person is an alien and is illegally in the United States. This higher degree of suspicion arises generally in questioning persons encountered in and around the port who are awaiting persons referred to secondary. This suspicion is based on questioning of alienage alone and also involves specific articulable facts, such as particular characteristics or circumstances which the inspector can describe in words."

- Customs & Border Protection, Inspector's Field Manual (2008)

And this is particularly interesting in light of this military officer's video. Apparently if he was entering the country (and not just driving on a highway in the USA), he would not be required to show a passport to enter the country and is exempted. And that's assuming he was a non-citizen military enlisted man, not an officer who must be a citizen.

"Chapter 11 - [Persons Exempt From Immigration Inspection When Entering the United States]:

Alien members of the U.S. military and NATO forces from member nations signatory to Article III of the Status of Forces Agreement entering under official orders are exempt the controls of the INA, pursuant to 8 CFR 235.1(c), including the requirement to present a passport and visa [See also section 284 of the INA.]. Such persons returning to the U.S. after a temporary trip are also eligible for this exemption without presenting any official orders."

- Customs & Border Protection, Inspector's Field Manual (2008)

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by Conn. Trooper

Brent, depends where you live. Here in CT you have to carry youur license and provide it to police.

Huh?

Are you saying that Connecticut law requires someone who is NOT operating a motor vehicle to carry a driver's license?

Statute, please. I think the Supreme Court has said quite the opposite, in Terry and Hiible.

[jgcoastie]

Originally Posted by Conn. Trooper

Maybe if they had been provided with it. Stuck in the window doesn't really allow for examination...

See my post (#2).

Originally Posted by Me

...So when he showed his DL & Military ID, the BP agents could have just asked to see them to ensure they were valid. When asked to produce the passports for inspection, the individual handed them over promptly. I have no reason to believe he would not have handed over the other ID's in the same manner...

[Double Naught Spy]

Military IDs prove legal immigration status. In the case of military officers, it also proves American citizenship.

Well sure enough! The only exception that I can find is if the ID is no longer valid.

Originally Posted by Conn. Trooper

Brent, depends where you live. Here in CT you have to carry youur license and provide it to police.

Huh?
Are you saying that Connecticut law requires someone who is NOT operating a motor vehicle to carry a driver's license?

Statute, please.

I believe the context of Conn. Trooper's reply was specifically in regard to the law requiring the operator of a motor vehicle to physically have the DL with him/her while driving. Brent had said that this wasn't the case where he is.

[Aguila Blanca]

Originally Posted by DNS

I believe the context of Conn. Trooper's reply was specifically in regard to the law requiring the operator of a motor vehicle to physically have the DL with him/her while driving. Brent had said that this wasn't the case where he is.

Gotcha. I see the context now.

I've never heard of a state that didn't require a driver to carry the license when actually driving.

[Conn. Trooper]

Correct, he was driving, so he would be required to have it with him, if he was here. I doubt there is a federal statute requiring that, I have never heard of one, outside of commercial drivers and commercial vehicles.

[KyJim]

I didn't read all seven pages of posts in the other thread or review the entire video. I will just say that if a police officer asks me to roll down the window, I'll roll it down. If he or she asks me to exit the vehicle, I'll exit the vehicle. Police officers have a tough enough time without people going out of the way to give them a tough time.

Having said that, I think writing a letter to a commanding officer is out of bounds. The officer has opened himself up for a potential lawsuit for slander and perhaps a violation of civil rights for having a citizen punished for exercising his rights.

[jcsturgeon]

I didn't read all seven pages of posts in the other thread or review the entire video. I will just say that if a police officer asks me to roll down the window, I'll roll it down. If he or she asks me to exit the vehicle, I'll exit the vehicle. Police officers have a tough enough time without people going out of the way to give them a tough time.

I'll say yes to rolling down the window. That part doesn't make sense to me. Absolutely not to getting out of the vehicle though. Rolling down the window is just common courtesy and not doing so does nothing to protect your rights, and quite frankly is just rude.

Exiting the vehicle just because some guy with a badge says so? I think not.

The Boarder Patrol Agents in that case (all the way up to the chief) acted disgracefully. Detaining a citizen for 35 minutes to punish them for speaking to you through a partially, rather than fully opened window is petty and childish. They should all be ashamed and either fired or made to take more training.