How far can you go?

[cdoc42]

Does anyone use a 25-06 for whitetail deer? Assuming that you are truly confident, would you launch a 117gr Sierra SP Gamemaster at a buck at 300 yards or would you defer and wish that you brought your 6.5 Creedmoor, .270 Winchester, or 7mm Remington Mag instead that day?

[sako2]

I wouldn't have any problems with using a 25-06 at 300yds. I have 1 and use a sierra gameking 117gn it's devastating on deer. Most are drt.

[MarkCO]

Originally Posted by sako2

I wouldn't have any problems with using a 25-06 at 300yds. I have

Same

[Paul B.]

I've only shot paper with a 25-06 but with the proper bullet I would not worry on deer to at least 400 yards. Frankly though, I will admit that I much prefer shots at 200 yards or less. I have taken game way out yonder nut at last count only three count. Deer at 426 paces and two elk, one at 350 yards and one at 530 yard, both laser measured. That longest shot had about 3 to maybe 3.5 months of practice to 500 meters on my clubs silhouette range. Generally I stay away from shots that far out but only shoot if conditions are perfect in my estimation.
Paul B.

[snoeproe]

The 250 cal is excellent for deer. 250 savage. 257 Roberts, 25-06. All great rounds for hunting whitetails.

[NHSHOOTER]

I would not hesitate shooting a whitetail at 300 yds with the 25-06 havent had the opportunity but would really like to. Killed drt at 175 farthest yet

[cdoc42]

I've asked for opinions to support my recent position at the hunting club. At my age, I'm comfortable being in a 4 x 4 wooden hut with a heater, and I've waited 5 years for a shot at 300 yards overlooking a field ending at that distance. I've fired 7mm Rem Mag, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 25-06 at a range covering 100 to 1000 yards. My best experience was a 12-oz spray paint can at 1000 yards with the Creedmoor, but I made a bullseye at 400 yards on a paper target at one time with the 25-06. This year, at 8:15 Am, a buck showed up at 300 yards with a doe and gave me the opportunity that I was waiting for. Snow flurries had started, but were small until I looked through the scope and found those closest to me were being magnified. They were increasing in intensity but I could still clearly see the buck standing broadside. I have a Burris 4-12 scope with dots on the vertical reticle and I know that the first dot is dead-on at 300 when sighted in at 200 yards. I left one shot off and saw the buck do a huge "mule-kick" then ran off into the woods. The doe ran toward me but quickly turned to her left to follow the buck. It took me 20-25 minutes to gather my gear, get to the car, and drive over the field to the spot where he kicked. No blood, no hair. The flurries were now so heavy that I could not see my hut and the ground was being covered quickly. Tracks were sparse but I thought I found a spot where he went downhill to the left of the field. Three of us searched for 2.5 hours to no avail. I tried again 2 and 3 days later. No luck. My two companions suggested my 25-06 was insufficient at 300 yards. I feel it was simply a matter of failing to hit a vital area, so I posted for opinions.

[jmr40]

At 300 yards most any modern cartridge shooting pointed bullets should be fine on deer size game.

Almost all of the common cartridges only have 9-10" of drop (or less) with a 100 yard zero which doesn't require a great deal of hold over. A strong wind might be a problem, but in calm conditions 300 yards just isn't that far.

The cartridge, with the right bullet is probably capable of deer size game a lot farther than 300 yards. But beyond about 300 yards things get more difficult and the number of shooters who can consistently make those shots are small. I've shot at paper as far as 600, but don't have the skills or confidence to shoot game any farther than about 300.

That's on deer size game. IMO the 24 and 25 calibers may be ideal for game that size. If you are talking about elk size game the 25-06 is IMO very borderline. I know guys kill elk with 243's and 25-06 rifles. I just feel better with something with a little more bullet weight.

If bigger game is a possibility that is when I'd want the other cartridges. The 6.5CM with 140 gr bullets is as small as I'd use on bigger game.

[MarkCO]

My two companions suggested my 25-06 was insufficient at 300 yards. I feel it was simply a matter of failing to hit a vital area, so I posted for opinions.

It was not the caliber IMHO. It might not have even been the spot you hit. It could have been the bullet, or something else completely. Stuff happens.

I watched a 7mm Mag hit an Elk at 80 yards, in what most would call a perfect shot, then 2 more times and that Elk was still eating grass. Same gun, same load, same shooter, same spot, 300 yards and that Elk ran at the shooter, passed him and left a 12 inch wide swath of blood for 2 miles before stopping. Top of the heart was gone when it was opened up.

Anyone who hunts long enough is going to see a failure to stop, even in what could be good conditions. You got unlucky with the snowstorm is probably the biggest factors based on what you have told us.

[Tallest]

Originally Posted by cdoc42

I've asked for opinions to support my recent position at the hunting club. At my age, I'm comfortable being in a 4 x 4 wooden hut with a heater, and I've waited 5 years for a shot at 300 yards overlooking a field ending at that distance. I've fired 7mm Rem Mag, 6.5 Creedmoor, and 25-06 at a range covering 100 to 1000 yards. My best experience was a 12-oz spray paint can at 1000 yards with the Creedmoor, but I made a bullseye at 400 yards on a paper target at one time with the 25-06. This year, at 8:15 Am, a buck showed up at 300 yards with a doe and gave me the opportunity that I was waiting for. Snow flurries had started, but were small until I looked through the scope and found those closest to me were being magnified. They were increasing in intensity but I could still clearly see the buck standing broadside. I have a Burris 4-12 scope with dots on the vertical reticle and I know that the first dot is dead-on at 300 when sighted in at 200 yards. I left one shot off and saw the buck do a huge "mule-kick" then ran off into the woods. The doe ran toward me but quickly turned to her left to follow the buck. It took me 20-25 minutes to gather my gear, get to the car, and drive over the field to the spot where he kicked. No blood, no hair. The flurries were now so heavy that I could not see my hut and the ground was being covered quickly. Tracks were sparse but I thought I found a spot where he went downhill to the left of the field. Three of us searched for 2.5 hours to no avail. I tried again 2 and 3 days later. No luck. My two companions suggested my 25-06 was insufficient at 300 yards. I feel it was simply a matter of failing to hit a vital area, so I posted for opinions.

I would be interested to know what ammo was used when the buck was shot. Bullet selection can make a difference, though there's not a 25-06 bullet I can think of off-hand that would be insufficient at 300 yards, depending upon point of entry. I agree with Mark and JMR, you were more than acceptably set up for the situation.

[cdoc42]

Tallest, I used a 117gr Sierra SPBT with a CCI LRP, H-1000 56.0gr, seated 0.02" from the leade, that was 1.5" high at 100 yards, dead-on at 200 yds, and dead-on again with the first dot below the crosshair on the Burris vertical reticle. At 100 yards I had a 4-shot, 0.243" group.

[44 AMP]

having seen a woodchuck almost literally blown in two at 500yards by a .25-06 87gr HP on top of a case full of IMR 4350, there is no doubt in my mind it would be adequate for deer at 300yds with a "deer bullet".

Your loss of the buck that day had nothing to do with the capabilities of the .25-06. Might have been a poor hit, might have been bullet failure, but I'd put most of the reason down to not being able to track down the deer in a snowstorm. It happens.

300yds is my personal, self imposed limit for big game animals. I can and have shot and hit lots of things, much smaller things at much longer ranges, but for big game, I consider shots beyond 300 to be unethical choices.

because, its always a choice.

[samsmix]

I have stretched the same bullet in the .257 Roberts out to the 500 yard mark on mulies, whitetails, and pronghorn. Everything my daughter, her mom, and myself shot with it, died where it stood, or close by.

[HiBC]

I have over 20 years hunting with a 257Roberts AI. I use 115 gr Ballistic Tips.

I have not lost an animal. It just kills them. I join those who suggest the cartridge is not the problem.

I do have a possible explanation. You said you have a 4-12 Burris with the Ballistic Plex. And you sighted so its on at 200 center crosshair and on up one dot at 300. Hopefully I did not misquote you.

Unless you bought a First Focal Plane scope, that dot is only useful at the exact variable power you sighted in with. Turn the variable power off of that "X" and you will introduce elevation error.

What is called the "withers" on a horse is composed of dorsal rib like projections above the shoulder area....in other words a target we might nick if we shot high.
To nick the withers may get a dramatic reaction followed by a quick recovery.

I wasn't there.....but that may be an explanation.

I like my fixed power 6X scope because it is foolproof that way ....and I am not.

On another rifle I have a Leupold 3.5 to 10X with a B+C reticle. It was new and I was not used to it. I used the reticle
holdover at the wrong power and darn near missed a mounain!

[cdoc42]

HiBC, thanks for your cogent thought. I am aware of what you say. For years I used no more than 6 power at 3-inch red 100-yard targets having a white 1-inch central circle. But shortly after I retired in 2015 I developed a right eye "macular hole," that caused a loss of central vision. Surgery was successful and I recaptured about 90% of functional sight, but I must use 12-power on the same targets. I still have a loss of fine-line clarity such that I can see the white dot while the edges of red and white are fuzzy. At 200 yards I increase the target size so that the crosshair blocks all the central white so I know I'm centered. At 300 I do the same thing but use the first ballistic dot to obliterate the white central enlarged dot.

On my 6.5 Creedmoor I made the 1000-yard hit on that paint can using a Nikon M-308 second plane scope at 16 power but I used that power and the various vertical clear and black dots, and dashes at each of the targets starting at 100 yards.

[HiBC]

At 200 yards I increase the target size so that the crosshair blocks all the central white so I know I'm centered. At 300 I do the same thing but use the first ballistic dot to obliterate the white central enlarged dot.

It sounds to me like you are quite experienced and know what you are doing.

But reading the above quote seems to reveal you adjust the reticle size by adjusting the magnification.

The center crosshair is not offset,so varying the power will not affect zero,
but the dots ARE offset from the center crosshair .When you adjust the coverage of a target feature, you also adjust the offset of the dot. You are .in effect,adjusting the elevation by an unknown amount.

If you zero that dot dead on at 300 yds using 10X the bullet will strike a different elevation at 8x or 14 X.

The 25-06 is just fine at 300 yds on a deer.

Consider the regard given the .257 Weatherby and .264 Win Mag. Yes,there is SOME difference. But not all that much.
Looking from a different direction, I have NO doubt my .257 AI ,or a 6.5 Manbun,or a 243, or a .260 Rem will cleanly kill a deer at 300 yds. All of them are adequate. Don't let your gun club buddies sell you on a 300 Win Mag.

One way or another, I doubt your bullet hit the heart/lung area. The heart and lungs would have poured out as chunky soup.And the deer would have dropped.

I have no doubt you can shoot.

It seems to me your method of compensating for your vision problem is faulty. And quite correctable! Your drop compensation is only valid at one magnification,whatever that may be.

[Jack O'Conner]

There is very little variance between 25-06 and 270. Not enough to make a difference shooting deer sized animals. - Jack

[cdoc42]

HiBC, no, I think you misunderstand what I'm doing. I sighted in at 12-power at 200 yards; I then shot at 100 yards at 12-power just to see how high I was (about 1.5 inches);
Then I used the first ballistic dot below the crosshair at 300 yards at 12 power again, and the hit was on target. It compensates for the drop at 300 I would had if I used the crosshairs. The size of the reticle never changes. I was changing the size of the targets at 200 and 300 yards to give a larger central white dot.

With the Creedmoor, the scope is different. It has 14 ballistic dots and dashes. I sight in at 200 yards using 16 power and leave it there. Then I recorded whatever dot or dash I used at various ranges at 16 power:

300 yds =#1
400 = #3
500 = #5
600= #7
700= #9
800= #10
900= #11
1000= #14

This is with a Hornady OR Sierra 140gr SP- the rifle sends both to the point of impact. I find that to be very unusual.

[cdoc42]

Jack, I agree with you, but the bullets differ in my experience. In these examples, I'm looking for groups less than 1-inch in size. BUT - all will shoot anything well enough for deer with a 12-inch target area at 100-200 yards. I need the 1-inch group for confidence at longer ranges.

My son has a .270 featherweight model 70 that likes a 130gr flat base Speer SP; it will not shoot the boat tail 130gr Speer as well. (nor Remington PSP 130gr or any 140 or 150 gr)

I have a Remington Model 700 from 1968 that will not shoot anything well except for a 150gr Hornady SP

A newer M700 purchased in 2003 likes a Hornady 140gr SST

My 25-06 has a Hart 26-inch barrel and did very nicely with Hornady 120gr HP until they d/c'd production. Berger and Sierra couldn't do as well, so I moved to 117gr HP, and that did not satisfy me. Finally I succeeded with Sierra 117gr BTSP.

[HiBC]

OK. I'll let it go.

[cdoc42]

HiBC, letting it go doesn't clarify any misunderstanding on both sides. As I read it, you are interpreting that I have a first focal plane, rather than a second focal plane, scope.

In FFP, the reticle enlarges as the magnification increases but the relationship to the impact point at any portion of the ballistic markings remains the same. In SFP, as you described, the relationship remains the same only if you use and maintain the maximum magnification of the scope. So if you sight in at 200 yards with the first dot below the crosshair at 9 power, then increase the magnification to 12 power and use the same first dot, the impact point will not be the same.

Now, maybe I have it wrong. Which is why you should not let it go.

[HiBC]

The original question was "Is the 25-06 with a 117 gr Sierra adequate for a 300 yd shot on a deer"

IMO, very adequate.

My understanding from the beginning was you have a second plane scope.

So if you sight in at 200 yards with the first dot below the crosshair at 9 power, then increase the magnification to 12 power and use the same first dot, the impact point will not be the same.

I agree with this statement.

At 200 yards I increase the target size so that the crosshair blocks all the central white so I know I'm centered. At 300 I do the same thing but use the first ballistic dot to obliterate the white central enlarged dot.

This may be where I misinterpreted your statement . I assumed you were doing this with the variable ring. As I reread it.maybe you posted different size targets downrange.

Oh well. I have no clue why the deer ran off. Maybe you clipped a blade of grass.

[Pipercub]

I don’t hunt with anything smaller than a 270/7mm. So I can’t answer the OPs initial question. I will comment on taking 20min to gather your stuff and get to the car…I live and hunt in the north country, have taken many 300yrd shots over the years (sheep/caribou). I’m not hunting out of a box or car, but would not in that situation (mule kick & run-off), take 20 minutes to go investigate! I would be there in 5min or less, especially if it was snowing. You are still hunting, until the game is down and not suffering. I hunt in bear country and always have sufficient ammo in the magazine and pockets, my knives are on me or in a small backpack on my back. I also carry a roll of survey tape to mark a trail coming out. You shouldn’t need anymore than that, to continue the hunt.

[cdoc42]

Pipercub, thanks for your thought. The problem that I see with getting there in 5 minutes is, if the bullet wound hit anything but the lungs or heart, tracking the animal before it had an opportunity to stop and lay down because of the wound would just push the animal to continue to travel and one might just spend an entire day tracking and never find the animal anyway. I've seen deer mule-kick and run no more than 30 yards even with a double lung shot, but when he ran into the forest I didn't know where he was hit. I didn't want to push him.

I was on a guided hunt once before in Montana and made a long shot at a mule deer, very close to the last light. The guide saw the kick. We found copious amounts of blood and followed a trail where the buck might have gotten hung up on a log he crossed over since blood was seen apparently coming from both sides of the body. Tracking stopped until the next morning but the crew that searched never found the deer.

[bamaranger]

I don't think there is enough difference between the cartridges listed by the OP to claim one all that superior to the other at 300yds. The 7mm mag is the hottest round listed of course, but not by all that much.

I hate that the OP lost a deer. Sounds like he knew his gear and made an adequate effort to recover the animal. If I were to suggest anything different it would be to consider the placement of the hut. Is it really necessary to place it at that location so that a 300 yd shot presents? Meaning, ....could the hut be relocated a bit next season to reduce the distance to the end of the field?