When you need Magnum Power in a Semi Auto

[DougU]

I am not sure why someone would want to carry a 5" .460 rowland for "street use" but to each your own. It is one cartridge I have some interest in but I have never seen factory ammo for it. I remember in my youth having a facsination with the .451 deutonics. It seems to me that the .460 rowland is very, very similar to that round.

[BGutzman]

Factory ammo is readily available on line from several places including some big names.

Why carry a 460 Rowland..... why not.......

Admittedly its not my daily carry but it does have its place and sometimes its just because I can... I do take care in ammo selection and tend for lighter loads for CCW.

[Sgt Pepper]

Well, you never know when a small tree or a brick wall will pop up out of nowhere and put you on the defensive...

[BGutzman]

LOL, Either one pops out and your good...

You know it is the one gun I cant seem to find any ballastic gelatin testing pics of..... HAve any idea where some might be found?

[10mm4ever]

The Rowland is an interesting proposition, but I've always been satisfied with the 45Super in one of my 1911's. The Super, like the 10mm, will take anything in the lower 48 with the proper load. I question whether there's anything on two feet or four the Rowland can take, that the 10mm or 45 Super cannot.

[BGutzman]

I do not doubt the effectiveness of the 45 or the 10 mm on most animals although the 10mm would be a better choice IMHO against a bear than what a 45 ACP would be, against a BG both are fine rounds.

That said the 460 has somewhat of an edge on the 10mm in terms of max ft. lbs. of striking force in off the shelf rounds (I don’t hand load so I can’t speak about which can go farther with hand loaded rounds.) The end difference between the two rounds (10mm vs 460 Rowland) would probably be a lot more dependent on the marksmanship skills of the shooter and less to do with the difference in power.

[jmortimer]

The 460 Rowland has a serious edge in "power" over the 10mm.

[Boats]

Every time I see a fake motivational poster in the style of this one, I can only believe that its creator is compensating for a personal caliber shortcoming.

[jmortimer]

+1 on that. The 10mm is a fine round but at 750 ft lbs max it's nothing to write home to mom about.

[RaySendero]

jmortimer wrote:
The 10mm is a fine round but at 750 ft lbs max it's nothing to write home to mom about.

Yeah, My thinking is kinda along this line , too!

A suped-up 45 auto or a 10mm is beyond my preference for a personal defense carry firearm but still below the power level what I would want in a hand gun for hiking dangerous game protection.

IMO, 2 guns would be better suited to cover the array of situations.

[Mello2u]

Someone was quoted as answering the question of "why do you carry a 45?", with "Because they don't make a 46".
Now there is that option, even though it is the same caliber as the .45 acp (.451").

For a century some people have been saying they carry a 44, when in fact they were carrying a .429.

Anyway . . . . .
Interesting post. Nice custom gun.

[Smaug]

For hunting, it is likely not accurate enough. For humans, it is going to over-penetrate. I guess there's always the bear defense fantasy...

[Harry Callahan]

I agree with Smaug. Could be a nightmare to defend it's use in court. A good attorney will go with the "why do you need that much gun?" argument and insinuate that the user wanted to do as much wanton damage as possible, then turn around and say it's use is irresponsible due to overpenetration. Some will laugh but this is how our "justice" system works.

[BGutzman]

For hunting, it is likely not accurate enough. For humans, it is going to over-penetrate. I guess there's always the bear defense fantasy...

Why would it not be accurate enough? Have you shot a 460 Rowland? I have a dual ported model as you can see, so the barrel climb is almost nil and the kick is straight back. Further my typical carry round would be the 230 Grain Wilson Combat Hornady XTP hitting with around 736 ft lbs running at about 1200 fps.

Certainly there is alot more potent rounds available for this gun but this somewhat reduced round seem to me to off the best of all worlds, solid but not crazy penetration in a large caliber round.

I shoot groups with it only slightly larger than what my P220 Carry does at the same distance and in the same time.

[BGutzman]

I understand the typical defense for a higher power gun is because of the higher power it seems more likely to stop the threat with fewer rounds thus helping preserve the BG's life as more rounds would equal more damage and more possibility of hitting something or someone that was unintended.

[Sgt Pepper]

Bgutaman, I guess that we are just plain dumb for having a .460R setup. The overanalysis on the boards sometimes is just a killer. Geez, can't a guy just have fun?!?!?

It's like saying that if I steamroll somebody while going 130 mph in my Corvette things will not be as bad for me as if I had done the exact same thing in my Viper. If you worried about what some "good lawyer" or prosecutor is going to do to you post-shooting, then you need to get out of gun ownership altogether.

[BGutzman]

I agree SGT Pepper.....

But the ones who are really losing are the ones that havent tried a 460 Rowland or another caliber that could be well used in self defense. I dont contend that the 460 or a 44 Magnum or a 45 Win Mag are for everyone but I do see a role for them. The Bill of Rights doesnt say you have the right to bear arms of only caliber XXX and XXX.

I know I am probably one of the most idealistic people in this forum but I wouldnt have served my nation for over two decades if I didnt believe the 2A means what it says and nothing less...I get the point that some lawyer could point at this and that and yet the fact remains guns all the way up to the 44 Magnum have been carried by various police officers in years past and probably even may have been an authorized weapon of some departments.

A freedom unused may as well not exist and I for one and not willing to surrender the use of these or any other calibers for any legal purpose, including self defense and CCW because of what some lawyer "might do".

I think I can make a pretty good case that less bullets expended equals less chance of others being hit and the odds of the BG surviving go up compared to being hit by how many ever more bullets may have been required to stop the threat. I think I can also point at the fact that for CCW I am carrying one of the least powerful commercial loads this gun can handle in due consideration of not over penetrating.

Ultimately though I think people get stuck with the fast food factor, everyone else says this and that are the way to go.... Some times you have to step up to something other than the fast food of guns.... Everything has its time and place...

[regularguy]

Someone asked how the 400 Corbon compares and I never saw a response. While the 400 Corbon conversion gives a pretty good boost to the .45ACP it isn't going to compare to the numbers I see here for the 460. It gets close to the 10mm but not quite. ME somewhere in the mid 600's. I will vouch for it's being a great round if you reload but very expensive to shoot if you don't. I have a really nice S&W 1911 that handles the conversion great. Very accurate

[BGutzman]

I cant speak for the Corbon 400, I have no experience with it...

[BGutzman]

Just for those who think Magnum has to mean inaccurate. The marksman in the following video states this it the first time he has ever shot the 460 Rowland and he onlly put two Mags through it prior to shooting this.

Keep in mind this is at 25 feet and his claim isnt to be that great at shooting..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAlrgKm77Ow

My summary would be if this gentleman who claims less than awesome pistol shooting skills can do this just imagine someone with better skills..

And just for fun here is its flash in total dark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PKwOJI5Qk8

[Mello2u]

Penetration can be inversely proportional to velocity. It depends upon bullet design and performance.

For example, if a 230gr bullet hits a target at 1000fps (511 ft/lb) and deforms from its initial diameter of .45" to .60", its frontal area (.28 sq. in.; Pi R squared) will meet with a certain resistance and expend energy accordingly inside of the target.
If a .45" bullet is launched at 1300fps (863 ft/lb) and deforms to .80", its greater frontal area (.50 sq. in.) will meet greater resistance and transfer energy faster. With almost twice the area and less than twice the energy, it is logical that this bullet would penetrate less.

So it depends on how much energy is available and the rate at which that energy is transferred. It may be that the 1st example takes 16" to completely transfer the energy and the second example might transfer the energy in 12".

[BGutzman]

Thanks Mello2 I appreciate your insight.

[FrontSight]

That's beautiful. How is the muzzle blast with the compensator?

[Sgt Pepper]

For me, muzzle blast has been a non-issue. That is with Georgia Arms factory ammo and my own reloads. My .357 tends to blow more flame.

[pstrlipscomb]

We are told that all pistols are inadequate, but they can help us fight our way to our rifle. It makes sense to me then that the closer my pistol's performance is to a rifle, the better. So why cry foul about penetration and other "issues" that are acceptable in the superior rifle? Give me the biggest, fastest, heaviest round I can stand to pack and forget compromising.