Tazer over Firearms?

[Re4mer]

Tazers, especially those sold to civilians right now are not very good. I would certainly not stake my life on one.

[DougO83]

^not very good? Could you please explain? I checked out the C2 at the store the other day and it seems like simply a more compact version of the LE model.

RE:OP-Probably not. At a previous job, I saw the value of the Taser, BUT I was supported by at least one additional officer. In the civvie world, the Tasers are not especially helpful. Sure, if you are attacked by one BG, you can pop them and you have basically 30 seconds to get out of dodge.

Just as I do at work, it is a supplement to a sidearm. Same with OC, which I have seen be less than 50% effective. It isn't that great...

[pax]

I checked out the C2 at the store the other day and it seems like ismply a more ocmpact version of the LE model.

For the first five seconds, the C2 (civilian model) and the LE Taser models both give exactly the same jolt to the subject. After five seconds, the LE model shuts off, while the C2 keeps going (with a different pattern designed to stretch battery life) for a total of thirty seconds. In that sense, the C2 is better than the LE models -- especially since it is designed to cope with the necessary tactics a civilian would be using.

As for "not very good," that's in the eye of the beholder. I have one and carry it. While the technology is not yet there to truly replace the firearm in defensive use, it's still a Darn Good Tool.

pax

[bababooey32]

I would not use a tazer (even if all the imperfections were worked out) because it simply could not engage multiple targets.

I would definitely not want a taser IN ADDITION to a gun, as it presents an alternative in the continuum of force where I am now responsible for being able to dicern which weapon to use in a given situation. If i choose the wrong one, I may be liable. I am not trained in force continuum, so I'd prefer not to have that responsibility.

If a BG enters my home unarmed, which weapon do I use? Texas law says I can shoot him, but if I have a tazer to choose from and he is unarmed, now I have to justify (if only to myself) why I chose the gun and not the taazer.

No Thanks.

Guns for me.

[KingEdward]

I've wondered about this but stopped wondering a couple of weeks back.

On COPS, on a routine stop, things escalated and the male driver would not exit the car. Guy was about 5' 8 and 170lbs or so.

After the third warning and his refusal to move, in went the tazer wires and they lit him up.

It seemed to just turn him on and then make him angry. He didn't get out.

4 guys dragged him out and they were still tazing him and he was still resisting. He was standing the whole time and you could hear the volts being sent.

When things finally settled down, it did not appear that he was on anything nor were there any drugs found.

I have no interest in the taser.

Also, I would hope to keep some distance with a firearm that may not be possible with a tazer.

[hogdogs]

I waited until we had a good discussion going to throw this into the mix...
The case of the 2 Okaloosa county deputies who were murdered at the gun range... It was immediately after getting lit up by a tazer that the killer went for the gun and killed the 2 officers.
Brent

[pax]

I saw on TV once where a guy got shot with a firearm and didn't go down, so I'm not going to carry a gun anymore.



pax

[KingEdward]

then let us know which tazers you opt for once the guns are
gone.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Pax

I saw on TV once where a guy got shot with a firearm and didn't go down, so I'm not going to carry a gun anymore.

No kidding. I know of an incident wherein a police officer emptied a 357 revolver into a perp and he didn't die. So, obviously, a 357mag in not enough for defensive purposes.

That same police officer was killed, in the same incident, with a single 22LR bullet. So, obviously, a 22LR is a far better defensive weapon that a 357mag.

[stargazer65]

That same police officer was killed, in the same incident, with a single 22LR bullet. So, obviously, a 22LR is a far better defensive weapon that a 357mag.

Statistics show cigarettes are far deadlier. Just toss cartons of unfiltered camels:barf: at the BG.

[pax]

Sorry, didn't mean to cause thread veer.

My point was that NO defensive tool, including our beloved firearms, is 100% guaranteed to work 100% of the time.

Tasers have a truly awesome track record in the LE world as being a great deal more reliable than the average less-lethal option.

pax

[Evan Thomas]

Originally Posted by pax

Used in law enforcement applications in typical LE encounters, they're a godsend. They can also be quite useful to a defense-minded ordinary citizen, even with the limitations mentioned above. But the technology still isn't there to completely replace the firearm as a defensive tool.

Yes... I might want one as an adjunct, but not as a replacement, I don't think -- that "too many variables and negatives" thing... but for now I'll stick with OC as an alternative, and try to stay upwind.

If it were? I'd agree that a moral person would not choose to use lethal force if a lesser level of force would accomplish the same goals. Once the technology finally arrives, a phaser set to "stun" is what the good people will use.

Yes, indeedy, although I wonder what the odds are of there ever being phasers with zero negative aftereffects: they'll end up being called less-lethal, not non-lethal, just like all that other stuff.

And wearing striped pants will always defeat a phaser... just so you know.

[stargazer65]

In all seriousness though I have a question. It's been said that using less lethal rounds (ie bean bags, rubber bullets) are a bad idea for HD/SD. Why would tazers be a good idea? It seems like the same concept.

[armsmaster270]

As said before Taser's are a tool in your tool kit just as is your Pistol, Shotgun, OC spray, Martial Arts and Louiville Slugger. You can't carry them all and for medical reasons you may not be able to use some, but you may carry one as a non lethal addition to your weapon. Multiple BG's taser is a disadvantage, Wind can negate OC Spray and affect you worse than the BG. Its all a big crapshoot you have to do the best you can with what you have and in a lot of situations you may not have the luxury of chosing which weapon to use. From one who has been there.
Stargazer
Bean Bags and rubber bullets are a stand off weapons designed for longer than SD distances

One more catagory for the poll: In the right Situation, yes

[Brian Pfleuger]

Why would tazers be a good idea? It seems like the same concept.

For HD you might have a point. Unless there was a way to immobilize the BG until LE arrives.

For SD on the street a tazer is good because it gives you the chance to get away. Something that is not particularly an option at home, or at least not a very good one.

[stargazer65]

Where does using a tazer fall in legal spectrum, for example:

If I pepper spray someone just for being a jerk I'd be in trouble.

If I shoot someone with a bean bag just for being a jerk I'd be in far, far, greater trouble. Maybe the same as if I'd used a real bullet.

Where is a tazer in all that?

[csmsss]

Tasers have a truly awesome track record in the LE world as being a great deal more reliable than the average less-lethal option.

But LEO's don't use tasers for self defense! They use them to induce compliance. If a LEO truly feels his life or others' is in danger, is he going to pull out the taser or the firearm? The firearm, of course.

[Re4mer]

^not very good? Could you please explain?

Sure, here is a video and an article. The first is a complete tazer fail where the officer is taken down after tazing the suspect. The second is an article where the police used the tazer and it failed to stop the aggression and they had to shoot the attacker anyway.

http://www.learnaboutguns.com/2009/0...al-video-clip/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2216603/posts


I have also personally witnessed several different civilian model tazers fail to drop the person while simply being used for demonstration purposes. I understand these are anecdotes but the OP question was would you take a tazer over a firearm so based on my experience and research into tazers I said no I would rather have a firearm.

Here are some other articles about a police forces with tazer failures on a large scale.

http://www.thestar.com/article/643902

http://www.houstonpress.com/2004-10-...hocking-truth/

Here is a great quote from the second article.

"That Taser was working. It just had no effect," explains Precinct 1 Lieutenant Troy Billings. "Even the company that makes them will tell you they only have an 85 percent take-down rate. The other 10 percent-plus, they just have little to no effect."

[Microgunner]

We keep a Taser International mod. M18L loaded with 15' cartridge under our counter and frankly, we're longing for the day we get to try it out on some belligerent drunk. But for a real confrontation we're launching lead. FAST, HARD & REPEATEDLY!

[armsmaster270]

My son used to love going to gun shows when the salesman was showing a customer how good their Stun gun was, ask to see one then use it on himself for about 4 seconds then give it back saying that was pretty good and walk off. I still don't know how he did it, but he took the full jolt.

Stargazer:
Taser without cause would result in an assault charge and all taser cartridges emit micro tracking dots that will lead right back to you.

[pax]

armsmaster ~

I've taken a "full jolt" from a stun gun many many times. It does not even begin to sort of compare to what the Taser does.

pax

[Microgunner]

I've taken a "full jolt" from a stun gun many many times. It does not even begin to sort of compare to what the Taser does.

That's for sure and certain. Take the cartridge out of a Taser and the pop & cracking it makes when triggered is 5 times louder than the biggest "stun guns" sound. Stun guns are a joke.

[spacemanspiff]

Pax
The research I have done on tazers shows the LE model blast is 30 seconds, and if you pull it twice, it will continue for a total of 90 seconds of taze.
The civilian one I researched was 15 seconds, pull it three times and you get 45 seconds.

My study may be outdated though. What I am sure of is that the LE model is far better than the civilian.

[DougO83]

For the first five seconds, the C2 (civilian model) and the LE Taser models both give exactly the same jolt to the subject. After five seconds, the LE model shuts off, while the C2 keeps going (with a different pattern designed to stretch battery life) for a total of thirty seconds. In that sense, the C2 is better than the LE models -- especially since it is designed to cope with the necessary tactics a civilian would be using.

Thats right. The C2 is designed so you can run away. IIRC, they will replace yours if you use it and send them the police report. I am looking for verification.

As for "not very good," that's in the eye of the beholder. I have one and carry it. While the technology is not yet there to truly replace the firearm in defensive use, it's still a Darn Good Tool.

You are correct. I have seen that it has its place on a full batbelt, but does it really have a place in the hands of the average CC holder?

RE: spacemanspiff. I think your data is a little off. As pax stated, the LE model gives a 5 sec blast, the civvie gives a 30-sec blast so that the vistim has a chance to flee attack. This is specifically for the Taser branded units and may be different for others. With that in mind, the C2 certainly takes the cake. Actually, I am going to go play with the C2 tomorrow. I will report back what I find.

[pax]

spiff,

Your study is significantly outdated. See http://www.taser.com/company/pressro...%2019%2009.pdf

pax