Concealed Handgun Licensee Stops Philadelphia Hospital Shooting - Page 2

Evan Thomas · July 27, 2014, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Typically situations play out like so,

Boss to media- "They acted vigilantly. They acted bravely."

Boss to Hero- "Thank you for saving everyones life. However, this is a gun free workplace. We have to let you go."

Glockstar, I'm curious -- can you cite any actual instances in which this happened?

kilimanjaro · July 27, 2014, 11:48 PM

I've heard of some store clerks and delivery folks who have been let go after thwarting a robbery or assault, can't cite a place or time, may be apocryphal.

Part of me says, "I hope the hospital fires him", thusly creating a national revulsion against stupid gun policies, but he should keep his job if he still wants it, says the other part of me.

Gary L. Griffiths · July 28, 2014, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Boss to Hero- "Thank you for saving everyones life. However, this is a gun free workplace. We have to let you go."

Apparently not, in this instance:

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/doctor...d-by-hospital/

Color me optimistic, but this could be a turn-around for some corporate "wisdom" on firearms.

Glockstar .40 · July 29, 2014, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Glockstar, I'm curious -- can you cite any actual instances in which this happened?

Vanya sure here ya go. Havent shopped at autozone since.

www.theblaze.com/.../autozone-employee-and-veteran-fired-fo.

GM1967 · August 1, 2014, 01:43 PM

If the doctor does get into any trouble with the hospital over this incident, he should preface every response he makes with this phrase:

"If I had followed the policy, I would be dead now, and most likely so would a lot of other innocent people."

He should reiterate that every time he answer one of their questions, and every time he answers a question from the media. Over and over.

Enough repetition, and it might get through some thick heads.

Bartholomew Roberts · August 1, 2014, 02:27 PM

The hospital already released a statement saying they were happily awaiting his return to practice. So it looks like he will do OK there.

In addition, it appears he pulled off the whole thing with a Seecamp .32 that he pulled after the bad guy grazed the side of his head with a round. Some good nerves there.

steve4102 · August 2, 2014, 09:09 AM

If he is allowed to remain, I wonder if the Hospital will let him continue to carry his firearm against Policy?

Double Naught Spy · August 2, 2014, 11:41 AM

I hope the hospital changes its policy...and as noted, that other businesses do as well.

steve4102 · August 2, 2014, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy

I hope the hospital changes its policy...and as noted, that other businesses do as well.

OH, they will change something, that's a given. Odds are it will be just the opposite of what you hope for.

My guess is Metal detectors and increased security to start, then on to possible random searches of Office space and personal belongings.

Glockstar .40 · August 5, 2014, 11:18 AM

Quote:

H, they will change something, that's a given. Odds are it will be just the opposite of what you hope for.

My guess is Metal detectors and increased security to start, then on to possible random searches of Office space and personal belongings.

Unfortunately this probably will be the case

Double Naught Spy · August 5, 2014, 08:28 PM

Quote:

OH, they will change something, that's a given. Odds are it will be just the opposite of what you hope for.

They didn't fire the guy, so already things are better than I hoped. From a policy standpoint, they probably should have fired him. He did knowingly break the rules and did so for an extended period of time. That they didn't fire him is very positive.

BobCat45 · August 6, 2014, 12:12 PM

I keep watching this thread for updates and every time I click on it, I remember the quote from the news report to the effect that the hospital was reviewing their security procedures and policies. It sounded almost as if they were going to revise their "no-guns" policy to "no guns unless you have a carry license" - but wishful thinking only works in children's stories...

steve4102 · October 9, 2014, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Blozinski

The county DA's name is Whelan:
"As for Silverman, Whelan said that he believed it was the doctor's practice to carry a gun for self-protection and that he was in compliance with all state laws."

Was he?

According to PA law.

5122. Weapons or implements for escape.
(a) Offenses defined.--
(1) A person commits a misdemeanor of the first degree if he unlawfully introduces within a detention facility, correctional institution or mental hospital, or unlawfully provides an inmate thereof with any weapon, tool, implement, or other thing which may be used for escape.

Was this Doctor in violation of State Law as well as Company Policy as he carried his firearm into a "mental Hospital"?

Is this case similar to the guy in Texas that just killed two bad guys in a Bar. Texas law states it is Illegal to carry in a bar, PA law says it's illegal to carry in a Mental Hospital, is there a difference?

ChuckS · October 9, 2014, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steve4102

Was this Doctor in violation of State Law as well as Company Policy ......as he carried his firearm into a "mental Hospital"?

If you do a quick web search you will find a couple of dozen hospitals listed as mental hospitals in PA. The hospital he was in is not described as one of them.

Many hospitals may have a mental health or behavior health wards but are not "mental hospitals."

The definition of "mental" hospital is important.

So no, he was not in violation of state law.

Notanotherstatistic · January 20, 2015, 02:14 PM

http://m.wmur.com/news/clerk-fired-a...obber/22454840

http://www.today.com/id/44483817/ns/...armacist-sues/

http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...d-robbery.html

Happens more than you might think. I should ask: would the mods have issue with a corporate "calling out"?

I'll just start alphabetically. Hmm, this topic is thread worthy if it doesn't already exist...
Autozone
Shell
Walgreens

Please feel free to add to the list. It just may influence how some of us spend our money. Not that I'm calling for anything like that. Just good to be an educated consumer.

**Frank Ettin** · January 20, 2015, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Notanotherstatistic

Response to Vanya...

Nope, you did not respond to Vanya's question. see post 26:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanya

Quote:

Typically situations play out like so,

Boss to media- "They acted vigilantly. They acted bravely."

Boss to Hero- "Thank you for saving everyones life. However, this is a gun free workplace. We have to let you go."

Glockstar, I'm curious -- can you cite any actual instances in which this happened?

Vanya has asked for documentation of a very specific set of facts: (1) company publicly praises the employee for his defensive actions; and (2) company fires the employee for violation of company policy.

You cite examples only of the employee being fired.

jmhyer · January 20, 2015, 04:50 PM

Well, since this old thread has now been resurrected, I will say this:
Just because the doctor was working in the hospital, that doesn't mean he was an employee of the hospital. While the landscape is changing, historically, doctors are either self employed or work for/with a group of doctors and simply have privileges to work in/admit patients to hospitals. You obviously cannot fire someone who is not your employee. Therefore, he may, by law, only have been able to be treated as a visitor that violated the weapons policy of the building he was in...at most (in most states) a misdemeanor charge.

Dashunde · January 20, 2015, 08:39 PM

The link to the hospital's policy doesnt work anymore... but here it is:
http://www.mercyhealth.org/about/ven...de-of-conduct/

It says "vendors". I'm guessing he was some form of contractor?

This case is really a boon for us.. CC saves the days for most, and "no firearms" policies shown to be utterly useless.

August 2, 2014, 11:41 AM	#33
Double Naught Spy Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2001 Location: Forestburg, Montague Cnty, TX Posts: 12,717	I hope the hospital changes its policy...and as noted, that other businesses do as well. __________________ "If you look through your scope and see your shoe, aim higher." -- said to me by my 11 year old daughter before going out for hogs 8/13/2011 My Hunting Videos https://www.youtube.com/user/HornHillRange

January 20, 2015, 02:14 PM	#40
Notanotherstatistic Member Join Date: January 11, 2015 Posts: 17	Response to Vanya. http://m.wmur.com/news/clerk-fired-a...obber/22454840 http://www.today.com/id/44483817/ns/...armacist-sues/ http://radio.foxnews.com/toddstarnes...d-robbery.html Happens more than you might think. I should ask: would the mods have issue with a corporate "calling out"? I'll just start alphabetically. Hmm, this topic is thread worthy if it doesn't already exist... Autozone Shell Walgreens Please feel free to add to the list. It just may influence how some of us spend our money. Not that I'm calling for anything like that. Just good to be an educated consumer.

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July 27, 2014, 11:48 PM	#27
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	I've heard of some store clerks and delivery folks who have been let go after thwarting a robbery or assault, can't cite a place or time, may be apocryphal. Part of me says, "I hope the hospital fires him", thusly creating a national revulsion against stupid gun policies, but he should keep his job if he still wants it, says the other part of me.

August 1, 2014, 01:43 PM	#30
GM1967 Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2010 Location: Delaware - formerly NJ Posts: 276	If the doctor does get into any trouble with the hospital over this incident, he should preface every response he makes with this phrase: "If I had followed the policy, I would be dead now, and most likely so would a lot of other innocent people." He should reiterate that every time he answer one of their questions, and every time he answers a question from the media. Over and over. Enough repetition, and it might get through some thick heads.

August 1, 2014, 02:27 PM	#31
Bartholomew Roberts member Join Date: June 12, 2000 Location: Texas and Oklahoma area Posts: 8,462	The hospital already released a statement saying they were happily awaiting his return to practice. So it looks like he will do OK there. In addition, it appears he pulled off the whole thing with a Seecamp .32 that he pulled after the bad guy grazed the side of his head with a round. Some good nerves there.

August 2, 2014, 09:09 AM	#32
steve4102 Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,952	If he is allowed to remain, I wonder if the Hospital will let him continue to carry his firearm against Policy?

August 6, 2014, 12:12 PM	#37
BobCat45 Senior Member Join Date: May 18, 2004 Location: East Bernard, TX Posts: 523	I keep watching this thread for updates and every time I click on it, I remember the quote from the news report to the effect that the hospital was reviewing their security procedures and policies. It sounded almost as if they were going to revise their "no-guns" policy to "no guns unless you have a carry license" - but wishful thinking only works in children's stories...

January 20, 2015, 04:50 PM	#42
jmhyer Senior Member Join Date: June 19, 2012 Location: MS - USA Posts: 899	Well, since this old thread has now been resurrected, I will say this: Just because the doctor was working in the hospital, that doesn't mean he was an employee of the hospital. While the landscape is changing, historically, doctors are either self employed or work for/with a group of doctors and simply have privileges to work in/admit patients to hospitals. You obviously cannot fire someone who is not your employee. Therefore, he may, by law, only have been able to be treated as a visitor that violated the weapons policy of the building he was in...at most (in most states) a misdemeanor charge.

January 20, 2015, 08:39 PM	#43
Dashunde Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2004 Posts: 2,018	The link to the hospital's policy doesnt work anymore... but here it is: http://www.mercyhealth.org/about/ven...de-of-conduct/ It says "vendors". I'm guessing he was some form of contractor? This case is really a boon for us.. CC saves the days for most, and "no firearms" policies shown to be utterly useless.