Win or Federal 45 Auto "NT" cases

BigJimP · April 6, 2005, 04:13 PM

I know Winchester boxes (for the WinClean WIN 45 auto NT) - Non Toxic - that they originally load with their non-lead small pistol primers says not to reload the cases - but I spoke to Hogdon powders this afternoon and they feel like I can load them using a small pistol primer.

Anybody loading these NT cases - or have any experience with them ? Thanks.

Jim Watson · April 6, 2005, 05:40 PM

I have loaded a few just to see if it could be done.
No problem at all, except for setting up for a small primer going into a .45 NT case. Velocity was slightly lower, 25 to 40 fps, depending on the load, but not enough to affect gun function. No matter unless you are loading to just barely make Major power factor or something. If you are, a small pistol magnum primer will make up most of the loss, or you could just increase a non-maximum load a bit.

I ran into my first NT Federal 9mm today. Standard size primer pocket but crimped heavier than most military. So I reamed out the crimp and loaded 'er up.

BigJimP · April 6, 2005, 06:14 PM

made the NT in a 9MM as well. I don't have many empty cases in Federal NT in 45 auto - but it looks like you might have to ream those out as well like you found on the 9MM. The Winchester brass looks like a small pistol primer will go right in with no problem.

To be honest with you - being able to run all my 45 auto cases thru with small pistol primers might be a good thing - so I don't have to change over things when I get ready to run some 9MM. But I'm just getting back into reloading - with a Dillon 650 - so the changeover is still taking me more time than it will down the road.

Jim Watson · April 6, 2005, 06:58 PM

I am sure there are a bunch of us who will cheerfully swap you NTs for ACPs as our brass pool gets contaminated with that stuff.

Then there is the chore of sorting out the GAPs. They are more obvious than I had thought at first, they are Really Short.

BigSlick · April 6, 2005, 08:55 PM

I agee with Jim.

Digging thru .45 brass to check for small or large primer is a headache I can live without. When I pickup Win NT cases, I toss 'em in the scrap can and they go out with the trash.

If anyone wants to swap some LP 45 ACP (except AMERC) for it I will happily make a trade.

The GAP brass has been somewhat of a pain, but the dies I have say are supposedly capable of loading 45 GAP too. I don't own anything in GAP, so unless I see a pistol that really jazzes me, these are of no use to me either.

What's next ? Small primers for 30-06 ?

BigSlick

Paul B. · April 7, 2005, 12:21 AM

I found a bunch of the Winchester NT brass, and E-mailed Winchester asking about the suitability of reloading them. They mailed me a flyer saying while it was not unsafe, they didn't recommend it due to the fact that if you were loading up normal ACP brass with large primers and one got mixed it, that there would be a problem.
As I sort out my range pick up brass by headstamp anyway, locating the small primered NTs is no problem. I loaded up the ones I had with a Winchester WLR primer and my target load of 5.0 gr. of W-231 and the 200 gr. SAECO 068 and shot them in my Colt Combat Commander. Turned out they gave me the best accuracy that pistol has ver delivered. The gun is strictly stock with the tiny sights that the seried 70 came equipped with.
Why they shot better, I haven't a clue. They just did.
Paul B.

Russ5924 · April 7, 2005, 08:10 AM

Have been throwing them away don't want them mixed up in my other .45 brass.I guess if I ever found a bunch I would try to save and reload.But they get into the other brass and you are putting in primers

Already had it happen but since I do primers by hand you know when something is wrong.

BigJimP · April 7, 2005, 06:38 PM

or until I get at least 1,000 of them - but more of them are showing up around here. So I'm going to keep them separated - and load them down the road. I don't think it's that big a deal to sort NT and non NT cases - especially if you check them after you run them thru a tumbler.
Thanks for the input guys.

Jim Watson · April 7, 2005, 09:13 PM

I am color coding. I load all my ACPs with Winchester unplated primers. The NTs and GAP small primers are plated, so if I see nickel on the back end of a case, it may be range pickup ACP but it might be Small, so I look twice.

I am not accumulating NTs very fast... yet. When I get enough to matter I will load them up and leave them for the brass rats and let THEM figure it out.

BigJimP · April 8, 2005, 11:36 AM

but then I'd have to carry a stick around - and smack those guys that are sweeping up my brass ........ but that's not all bad either.

But I bought a case of the WinClean ammo 3 weeks ago too - so I'm one of the guys that is creating the problem with the NT's lying around.

April 6, 2005, 04:13 PM	#1
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	Win or Federal 45 Auto "NT" cases I know Winchester boxes (for the WinClean WIN 45 auto NT) - Non Toxic - that they originally load with their non-lead small pistol primers says not to reload the cases - but I spoke to Hogdon powders this afternoon and they feel like I can load them using a small pistol primer. Anybody loading these NT cases - or have any experience with them ? Thanks.

April 6, 2005, 06:14 PM	#3
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	thanks Jim - I didn't know that Federal made the NT in a 9MM as well. I don't have many empty cases in Federal NT in 45 auto - but it looks like you might have to ream those out as well like you found on the 9MM. The Winchester brass looks like a small pistol primer will go right in with no problem. To be honest with you - being able to run all my 45 auto cases thru with small pistol primers might be a good thing - so I don't have to change over things when I get ready to run some 9MM. But I'm just getting back into reloading - with a Dillon 650 - so the changeover is still taking me more time than it will down the road.

April 7, 2005, 12:21 AM	#6
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	I found a bunch of the Winchester NT brass, and E-mailed Winchester asking about the suitability of reloading them. They mailed me a flyer saying while it was not unsafe, they didn't recommend it due to the fact that if you were loading up normal ACP brass with large primers and one got mixed it, that there would be a problem. As I sort out my range pick up brass by headstamp anyway, locating the small primered NTs is no problem. I loaded up the ones I had with a Winchester WLR primer and my target load of 5.0 gr. of W-231 and the 200 gr. SAECO 068 and shot them in my Colt Combat Commander. Turned out they gave me the best accuracy that pistol has ver delivered. The gun is strictly stock with the tiny sights that the seried 70 came equipped with. Why they shot better, I haven't a clue. They just did. Paul B. __________________ COMPROMISE IS NOT AN OPTION!

April 7, 2005, 08:10 AM	#7
Russ5924 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2005 Posts: 1,874	Have been throwing them away don't want them mixed up in my other .45 brass.I guess if I ever found a bunch I would try to save and reload.But they get into the other brass and you are putting in primers Already had it happen but since I do primers by hand you know when something is wrong. __________________ Russ5924

April 7, 2005, 06:38 PM	#8
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	I won't reload the NT's cases until I get more or until I get at least 1,000 of them - but more of them are showing up around here. So I'm going to keep them separated - and load them down the road. I don't think it's that big a deal to sort NT and non NT cases - especially if you check them after you run them thru a tumbler. Thanks for the input guys.

April 6, 2005, 05:40 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I have loaded a few just to see if it could be done. No problem at all, except for setting up for a small primer going into a .45 NT case. Velocity was slightly lower, 25 to 40 fps, depending on the load, but not enough to affect gun function. No matter unless you are loading to just barely make Major power factor or something. If you are, a small pistol magnum primer will make up most of the loss, or you could just increase a non-maximum load a bit. I ran into my first NT Federal 9mm today. Standard size primer pocket but crimped heavier than most military. So I reamed out the crimp and loaded 'er up.

April 6, 2005, 06:58 PM	#4
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I am sure there are a bunch of us who will cheerfully swap you NTs for ACPs as our brass pool gets contaminated with that stuff. Then there is the chore of sorting out the GAPs. They are more obvious than I had thought at first, they are Really Short.

April 6, 2005, 08:55 PM	#5
BigSlick Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2005 Location: Texas of course Posts: 277	I agee with Jim. Digging thru .45 brass to check for small or large primer is a headache I can live without. When I pickup Win NT cases, I toss 'em in the scrap can and they go out with the trash. If anyone wants to swap some LP 45 ACP (except AMERC) for it I will happily make a trade. The GAP brass has been somewhat of a pain, but the dies I have say are supposedly capable of loading 45 GAP too. I don't own anything in GAP, so unless I see a pistol that really jazzes me, these are of no use to me either. What's next ? Small primers for 30-06 ? BigSlick

April 7, 2005, 09:13 PM	#9
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,543	I am color coding. I load all my ACPs with Winchester unplated primers. The NTs and GAP small primers are plated, so if I see nickel on the back end of a case, it may be range pickup ACP but it might be Small, so I look twice. I am not accumulating NTs very fast... yet. When I get enough to matter I will load them up and leave them for the brass rats and let THEM figure it out.

April 8, 2005, 11:36 AM	#10
BigJimP Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 13,195	color coding is a good idea but then I'd have to carry a stick around - and smack those guys that are sweeping up my brass ........ but that's not all bad either. But I bought a case of the WinClean ammo 3 weeks ago too - so I'm one of the guys that is creating the problem with the NT's lying around.