Forming 6.5x50 brass

[histed]

I've read several places of guys making 7.7 Jap brass out of 270. Is there any commercial brass that (relatively) easy to convert to 6.5 Jap? If so, what steps are needed? Prvi sporadically produces brass, but the Norma is a bit salty for my budget.

[wncchester]

The 6.5 Jap is 2" long and the head size is .475", virtually identical to .270, .260, .308, .30-06; meaning they will all reform fine but it will take some work and an intermediate forming die - or two for all but the .260 stuff.

[Mike Irwin]

"The 6.5 Jap is 2" long and the head size is .475", virtually identical to .270, .260, .308, .30-06;"

Uh, no, it's not even close to being the same head diameter.

6.5x50SR Arisaka is .447 nominal head diameter, SIGNIFICANTLY different from the Mauser .470 nominal standard.

There's a case drawing here: https://www.loaddata.com/members/sea...loading%20Data

[histed]

Mike, I've heard of people making 7.7 Jap out of 270, 06..., but I thought they were wrong for the 6.5. Thanks for the diagram. So I'm outa luck? Thought Iread that it could be done with 35 remington, but can't find teh article - or the 35 brass

[Mike Irwin]

Yes, people have made 7.7 Arisaka from .30-06 and the like for a long time. It works, but it's not idea because the 7.7 is slightly larger in the head.

And, if you have a gun with an oversized chamber, as is often the case with Arisaka rifles, you can have unacceptable expansion of the head area.

I'm at work right now, and my Donnolley book of cartridge conversions is at home, so I can't answer your question right now.

I do know, however, that modern 6.5 Arisaka brass is being made. It may take some looking to find it, but it's out there, or as the panic eases, it will return to being out there.

.35 Remington could probably be swaged down, but the head is kind of big. An even bigger problem is that it's about 2mm shorter than the Arisaka case. Not insurmountable, but problematic.

[F. Guffey]

I do not hesitate, I start with a 308 Winchester forming die. Then there are thickness gages, I adjust the die off the shell holder and finish with a Herter.s set of sizing dies. When finished the case fits the chamber.

The 6.5mm50 is as easy, I ream the chamber to 6.5 Roberts.



F. Guffey

[Mike Irwin]

OK, I've just reviewed my Donnolley book, and I'm sort of Gobsmacked....

He recommends base swaging the .270 Winchester, and I really can't see why.

That would be a tremendous amount of work.

If one had to pick a case to headswage, the .308 Winchester would be a much better choice, as would any number of others.

At a minimum, to form a .270 into a 6.5x50 Arisaka, would take:

1. Head swaging. That would have to be done on an arbor press as the amount of force needed would be pretty extreme.

2. Forming the rest of the case. The shoulder would need to be pushed back, and the case trimmed to length. You could probably do neck forming at this point.

3. Neck reaming. There's no way you could push the shoulder back that much and not have an extra thick neck. It would have to be either reamed internally or the neck turned externally.

4. Annealing. Again, pushing that far back is going to push into the harder part of the case, and that will need to be relieved.

5. Neck and final sizing, this time with the expander ball in the die.

6. Rim turning. The .270 has a nominal .473 rim, the Arisaka has a nominal .465 rim. It may or may not fit the bolt head, and it may or may not give feeding problems if it's left large.

7. The final step, which may or may not be needed, would probably be fire forming with a light charge of Unique or Red Dot or a similar powder to iron out any discrepancies.

That is a TREMENDOUS amount of work.

At least by using a .308 you could reduce the amount of work, if not eliminate steps 3 and 4, and you could, if you were careful, do the final time not with a trim die but a small lathe-type case trimmer from RCBS or Forester.

The 6.5x52 Carcano round is VERY close to the Arisaka in important dimensions, including case head. The rim diameter is quite a bit smaller, though, so that might cause problems.

It's very possible that you could run a 6.5x52 straight into a 6.5x50 die and do a final trim and that would be all you need to do.

[F. Guffey]

"2. Forming the rest of the case. The shoulder would need to be pushed back"

And that is where they loose me every time.

When I move the shoulder back the case wads up between the case head and shoulder. When I form a case the shoulder disappears and becomes something else, like the shoulder and or neck or both, there are times when I form 308 W cases from 30/06 cases most of the 30/06 shoulder and neck are lost in the forming process.

When fire forming cases I have been know to scribe the case, scribing the case helps to distinguish fact from fiction and truth from nonsense.

F. Guffey

[Mike Irwin]

Using a regular die, you're not going to be able to push the shoulder back much, especially on cases that are overly long. You'll run into problems exactly like what you've described.

You can either pre-trim and then anneal and size, which is iffy, or you can go with a special form and trim die. They're expensive, but you can take an unaltered case and in a single pass create the case you want and then trim off the excess. I think a lot of it has to do with the internal shape of the die.

Using a form & trim die I converted 100 .30-06 cases into .300 Savage cases and didn't lose a single one.

Fire forming can also be hit and miss. I've done it successfully in making .32 Winchester Special cases out of .30-30 cases. As long as you're not trying to do too much, it's a useful tool.

[histed]

WOOF! At this rate I'd have enough invested in equipment to start my own custom ammo factory. Guess if it was easy anyone could do it. It does seem as if the panic is subsiding, so I'll keep watching Graf, Midway and the others for Prvi to come back. And the money I don't spend on equipment could go to buy a Mosin. Do two WWII rifles make a "collection"?