Minie Ball lubrication

reynolds357 · June 8, 2013, 12:33 PM

I must start by admitting that when it comes to cast bullets, my knowledge is very limited. I have never cared for them. Having said that, I am about to shoot some 50 cal minie balls in my inline muzzleloader. Several people who I have talked to about them tell me to pack the hollow cavity with lube and do not put lube anywhere but in the cavity. None of them can tell my why to lube the minie ball that way. "Everyone has always done it that way," Is the answer I get. I am one of these people that have to know why I am doing something before I do it. Two questions. 1: Is this the proper way to lube a minie ball? 2: If so, why is it lubed differently than any other cast bullet I have ever seen?

Thanks in advance.

**Unclenick** · June 8, 2013, 01:01 PM

I'll move your post to the cast bullet forum for you.

mehavey · June 8, 2013, 01:05 PM

North-South Skirmishing and (many) thousands of rounds:

Make lube from 1 part Beeswax/2-3 parts Crisco (depending upon how hot the weather is)

Melt on stove and dip Minnie ball into the liquid (not smoking hot) lube once or twice to
cover the outside lube rings. Let harden and put into whatever container you want.
Subsequent messiness is irrelevant

No lube in cavity.

Shoot (again, and again, and again, and again... which is the advantage of the Minnie design)

**
The outside lube not only leaves plenty of soft/lubed fouling upon shooting, but also re-lubes the bore going into the hot barrel as well as coming out.

snuffy · June 8, 2013, 01:29 PM

+1 on mehavey. Just why they told that "just in the hollow base thing", I can't tell you. The Minnie style of bullet is made that way so the powder pressure will expand the thin skirt to engage the rifling. It can do that whether it's filled with grease or not.

One thing that's important with black powder is; the lube MUST be a natural lube like the beeswax and crisco lube mentioned. DO NOT use any petroleum products, wax, or grease. Petroleum based lube mixes with the BP fouling to form a tarry layer that's darn hard to remove. The water based cleaners used by BP shooters won't "touch", (dissolve) it.

Pahoo · June 8, 2013, 01:49 PM

Although I use a different recipe, I pretty much do use the method that mehavey has listed and that's pretty much what I have observed from others. ...

Your post has got me thinking and I feel I understand the logic. It would work but at this time, would not see any advantage to the hot dipping. ..

Be Safe !!!

mehavey · June 8, 2013, 02:52 PM

Quote:

...advantage to the hot dipping...

When I was running a couple of hundred rounds a week, the hot (liquid beeswax/crisco)
method was very fast production that left a nice layer of lube on the rings that (mostly) hardened
to a smooth surface

1. Measure powder out w/ Lee Dipper and place in plastic valve cap
2. Place Minnie ball upside down in valve cap forming cartridge
3. Pick up and dip the bullet/cartridge assembly in lube

Done . . . .

On the firing line these could be thrown loose into an over-the shoulder musket cartridge box, ...

...and hand-retrieved one after another with great ease. (Hold bullet in teeth; Pull off
plastic tube w/ powder; Pour powder into barrel; Place bullet in muzzle; ...Ram home.
The exposed lube did get "mussed" after a while, but it always did it's job perfectly.

reynolds357 · June 8, 2013, 04:27 PM

Thanks all, the advice you have given me seems to agree with what my gut intuition was telling me. Putting lube in the cavity made no sense to me and the information you have given me seems logical.
Next question. If I am using Blackhorn 209 as the propellent, is it Ok to use an oil based lube?

mehavey · June 8, 2013, 07:32 PM

Reading what I have (but never used) it appears Blackthorne powders can utilize smokeless lubricants.

In that case, I'd try the same thing I found worked incredibly well with my 45-70/ cast (Lyman#2)
405grain plain base over AA5744: Liquid Alox wiped on between thumb & forefinger and allowed to dry

Slamfire · June 12, 2013, 01:56 PM

I use a 50:50 mix of beeswax and Crisco. The more Crisco the colder it gets.

And I lube the heck out of my Minie Balls. I lube the outside and I fill the cavity. I bought an inside cavity lubricator from Rapine bullets and it works great. Rapine went away in 2010, Ray Rapine was getting old and I guess he called it quits.

I don't see any reason not to put as much lube as you can on a minie ball. It keeps the fouling moist longer.

reynolds357 · June 12, 2013, 08:57 PM

Slamfire, can you tell me what lubing the cavity accomplishes. I am curious about this. I know several people who do it, but no one knows why.

mehavey · June 14, 2013, 09:02 AM

From long experience, Lubed cavities:

PRO
- May provide hydraulic pressure to more uniformly expand the skirt, but 'Old-Style' Minnies see no effect
- Spreads more fouling-softening lube along the bullet's path out the barrel, but I've found external lube more than enough even in extended Skirmish rapid fire events

CON:
- Lube in the cavity makes a asbolute mess in a cartridge box from handling and heat
- Lube in the cavity provides no additional sealing or lubing advantage.
- Lube in the cavity neutralizes/deadens the powder it comes in contact with.

Jimro · June 25, 2013, 01:50 AM

Just finished reading "Jack Hinson's One-Man War" and in the book Jack was described as using a patch with his minnie ball loads.

Would lube in the cavity explain why in the book "Jack Hinson's One-Man War" that the loading procedure Jack used included a patch between the powder and the minnie ball?

The book mentions a minnie ball bullet mould, but does not go into any detail at all about lubes, only that Jack prepped powder and ball in paper cartridges and used the "rip paper, pour powder, use paper for patch, ram ball" method of loading but the author continually mentioned a specific patch, not just the paper cartridge. For all I know that could be pure fiction as the powder would come into contact with any lube inside the paper cartridge.

Possibly the author was confused as to the function of the patch, as it is not needed with a minnie ball.

Jimro

mehavey · June 25, 2013, 08:56 AM

From bitter experience, If the shooter tries to ram anything but a naked/lubed minnieball down
the barrel of a battle-fouled rifled-musket, that's the end of that gun's action until the hard-stuck
obstruction is cleared.**

I also read some reviews of Hinson's biography and noted this input:

….relates in great detail how Hinson had a special purpose plainly finished .50 caliber (12.7mm) Kentucky Jaeger rifle made to his own specifications. The rifle had an octagonal 41-inch barrel combined with a maple stock weighed in at a total of 18 pounds. Its weight meant it needed to be braced on a limb or stump to achieve accurate long range fire out to and beyond 500 meters with iron sights. Today Hinson’s remarkable rifle remains in the ownership of decedents of Major Charles W Anderson, General Forrest’s friend and adjutant during the Civil War. The author made contact with the family and inspected the rifle complete with at least two sets of ‘kill’ marks cut into its iron barrel.

….goes on to describe Hinson’s further use of this weapon to snipe up to a hundred Union soldiers and sailors. Hinson’s favorite targets were bluecoat cavalrymen of the Fifth Iowa Cavalry Regiment (Curtis Horse) who had taken part in the punitive deaths of his teenage sons and officers of US gunboats plying the river below his cave on the river bluffs. Among Hinson’s amazing war record the author chronicles his other efforts as a scout and guide to Confederate cavalry General Nathan Bedford Forrest and how now ‘Captain Jack” forced a Union gunboat to surrender to a single sniper.

That's a wholly different game than a rifled musket, and more like a Whitworth rifle w/ a hexagonal
Whitworth bullet -- even though they occasionally used cylindrical "Minnieball" hollow-base designs
in a pinch. Given the long range descriptions of the shots, however, I would suspect that speciallized
Whitworth bullets were used.

I've ordered the book....

**
You can clear the obstructed barrel by simply firing the charge underneath it. But it's a wasted shot.

Old Stony · June 25, 2013, 10:38 AM

You'll find a hundred different recipes for lubes and different ways of applying them. I use two parts of olive oil and one of beeswax and it seems to work well for me. I just smear it around with my fingers and keep them in a tin when I go shooting. I just don't like the idea of a soft lube mixing with the powder in the base of the bullet but some people do it and seem to do okay. I hunt with a .62 and a round ball and even put a 20 ga. over powder wad over the powder before seating a lubed patch and ball. I know some people that use the old method of a small wad of wasp's nest between powder and wad when they are going to leave it loaded for a while like hunting.
I agree with the previous post about nothing petroleum based in your bores...ever....

June 8, 2013, 12:33 PM	#1
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Minie Ball lubrication I must start by admitting that when it comes to cast bullets, my knowledge is very limited. I have never cared for them. Having said that, I am about to shoot some 50 cal minie balls in my inline muzzleloader. Several people who I have talked to about them tell me to pack the hollow cavity with lube and do not put lube anywhere but in the cavity. None of them can tell my why to lube the minie ball that way. "Everyone has always done it that way," Is the answer I get. I am one of these people that have to know why I am doing something before I do it. Two questions. 1: Is this the proper way to lube a minie ball? 2: If so, why is it lubed differently than any other cast bullet I have ever seen? Thanks in advance.

June 8, 2013, 01:05 PM	#3
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	North-South Skirmishing and (many) thousands of rounds: Make lube from 1 part Beeswax/2-3 parts Crisco (depending upon how hot the weather is) Melt on stove and dip Minnie ball into the liquid (not smoking hot) lube once or twice to cover the outside lube rings. Let harden and put into whatever container you want. Subsequent messiness is irrelevant No lube in cavity. Shoot (again, and again, and again, and again... which is the advantage of the Minnie design) ** The outside lube not only leaves plenty of soft/lubed fouling upon shooting, but also re-lubes the bore going into the hot barrel as well as coming out. Last edited by mehavey; June 8, 2013 at 01:31 PM.

June 8, 2013, 01:29 PM	#4
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	+1 on mehavey. Just why they told that "just in the hollow base thing", I can't tell you. The Minnie style of bullet is made that way so the powder pressure will expand the thin skirt to engage the rifling. It can do that whether it's filled with grease or not. One thing that's important with black powder is; the lube MUST be a natural lube like the beeswax and crisco lube mentioned. DO NOT use any petroleum products, wax, or grease. Petroleum based lube mixes with the BP fouling to form a tarry layer that's darn hard to remove. The water based cleaners used by BP shooters won't "touch", (dissolve) it. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

June 8, 2013, 01:49 PM	#5
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 8,783	Hot Dip !! Although I use a different recipe, I pretty much do use the method that mehavey has listed and that's pretty much what I have observed from others. ... Your post has got me thinking and I feel I understand the logic. It would work but at this time, would not see any advantage to the hot dipping. .. Be Safe !!! __________________ 'Fundamental truths' are easy to recognize because they are verified daily through simple observation and thus, require no testing.

June 12, 2013, 01:56 PM	#9
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	I use a 50:50 mix of beeswax and Crisco. The more Crisco the colder it gets. And I lube the heck out of my Minie Balls. I lube the outside and I fill the cavity. I bought an inside cavity lubricator from Rapine bullets and it works great. Rapine went away in 2010, Ray Rapine was getting old and I guess he called it quits. I don't see any reason not to put as much lube as you can on a minie ball. It keeps the fouling moist longer. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

June 8, 2013, 01:01 PM	#2
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	I'll move your post to the cast bullet forum for you. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

June 8, 2013, 04:27 PM	#7
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Thanks all, the advice you have given me seems to agree with what my gut intuition was telling me. Putting lube in the cavity made no sense to me and the information you have given me seems logical. Next question. If I am using Blackhorn 209 as the propellent, is it Ok to use an oil based lube?

June 8, 2013, 07:32 PM	#8
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	Reading what I have (but never used) it appears Blackthorne powders can utilize smokeless lubricants. In that case, I'd try the same thing I found worked incredibly well with my 45-70/ cast (Lyman#2) 405grain plain base over AA5744: Liquid Alox wiped on between thumb & forefinger and allowed to dry

June 12, 2013, 08:57 PM	#10
reynolds357 Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2012 Posts: 6,165	Slamfire, can you tell me what lubing the cavity accomplishes. I am curious about this. I know several people who do it, but no one knows why.

June 14, 2013, 09:02 AM	#11
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	From long experience, Lubed cavities: PRO - May provide hydraulic pressure to more uniformly expand the skirt, but 'Old-Style' Minnies see no effect - Spreads more fouling-softening lube along the bullet's path out the barrel, but I've found external lube more than enough even in extended Skirmish rapid fire events CON: - Lube in the cavity makes a asbolute mess in a cartridge box from handling and heat - Lube in the cavity provides no additional sealing or lubing advantage. - Lube in the cavity neutralizes/deadens the powder it comes in contact with. Last edited by mehavey; June 14, 2013 at 10:35 AM.

June 25, 2013, 01:50 AM	#12
Jimro Senior Member Join Date: October 18, 2006 Posts: 7,097	Just finished reading "Jack Hinson's One-Man War" and in the book Jack was described as using a patch with his minnie ball loads. Would lube in the cavity explain why in the book "Jack Hinson's One-Man War" that the loading procedure Jack used included a patch between the powder and the minnie ball? The book mentions a minnie ball bullet mould, but does not go into any detail at all about lubes, only that Jack prepped powder and ball in paper cartridges and used the "rip paper, pour powder, use paper for patch, ram ball" method of loading but the author continually mentioned a specific patch, not just the paper cartridge. For all I know that could be pure fiction as the powder would come into contact with any lube inside the paper cartridge. Possibly the author was confused as to the function of the patch, as it is not needed with a minnie ball. Jimro __________________ Machine guns are awesome until you have to carry one.

June 25, 2013, 08:56 AM	#13
mehavey Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2010 Location: Virginia Posts: 6,886	From bitter experience, If the shooter tries to ram anything but a naked/lubed minnieball down the barrel of a battle-fouled rifled-musket, that's the end of that gun's action until the hard-stuck obstruction is cleared. I also read some reviews of Hinson's biography and noted this input: ….relates in great detail how Hinson had a special purpose plainly finished .50 caliber (12.7mm) Kentucky Jaeger rifle made to his own specifications. The rifle had an octagonal 41-inch barrel combined with a maple stock weighed in at a total of 18 pounds. Its weight meant it needed to be braced on a limb or stump to achieve accurate long range fire out to and beyond 500 meters with iron sights. Today Hinson’s remarkable rifle remains in the ownership of decedents of Major Charles W Anderson, General Forrest’s friend and adjutant during the Civil War. The author made contact with the family and inspected the rifle complete with at least two sets of ‘kill’ marks cut into its iron barrel. ….goes on to describe Hinson’s further use of this weapon to snipe up to a hundred Union soldiers and sailors. Hinson’s favorite targets were bluecoat cavalrymen of the Fifth Iowa Cavalry Regiment (Curtis Horse) who had taken part in the punitive deaths of his teenage sons and officers of US gunboats plying the river below his cave on the river bluffs. Among Hinson’s amazing war record the author chronicles his other efforts as a scout and guide to Confederate cavalry General Nathan Bedford Forrest and how now ‘Captain Jack” forced a Union gunboat to surrender to a single sniper. That's a wholly different game than a rifled musket, and more like a Whitworth rifle w/ a hexagonal Whitworth bullet -- even though they occasionally used cylindrical "Minnieball" hollow-base designs in a pinch. Given the long range descriptions of the shots, however, I would suspect that speciallized Whitworth bullets were used. I've ordered the book.... You can clear the obstructed barrel by simply firing the charge underneath it. But it's a wasted shot.

June 25, 2013, 10:38 AM	#14
Old Stony Senior Member Join Date: May 31, 2013 Location: East Texas Posts: 1,705	You'll find a hundred different recipes for lubes and different ways of applying them. I use two parts of olive oil and one of beeswax and it seems to work well for me. I just smear it around with my fingers and keep them in a tin when I go shooting. I just don't like the idea of a soft lube mixing with the powder in the base of the bullet but some people do it and seem to do okay. I hunt with a .62 and a round ball and even put a 20 ga. over powder wad over the powder before seating a lubed patch and ball. I know some people that use the old method of a small wad of wasp's nest between powder and wad when they are going to leave it loaded for a while like hunting. I agree with the previous post about nothing petroleum based in your bores...ever....