Little round ball....amazing penetration

FlySubCompact · July 15, 2012, 12:38 PM

My daughter's boyfreind has had little exposure to any kind of firearms (city kid, raised by a single mom). I've been teaching him safety and shooting.

Decided to dust off my old .50 CVA rifle. I've been building a deck so I had lumber scraps for targets for him. I loaded with 50 grains of powder under a patched round ball. Target was a 2x6 (dry pine). Was thinking the board would stop the ball. Wrong.... Two, sandwiched together didn't even stop it. Finally grabbed a 4x4 chunk of post. That stopped the RB.

Disected the post with a bandsaw. Found that RB stopped only 1/4" from the other side of the post. The wood target was set at an angle, so the RB penetrated 4" of hard, dried yellow pine. Actually, a little more because at the end of it's travel it j-hooked to the right about an inch. Had no idea a RB could do that.

I never hunted with this BP rifle. I'm figuring a round ball could go right through a medium sized deer? Especially with a stouter charge than 50 grains?

mykeal · July 15, 2012, 01:17 PM

Depends on what it hits, or rather doesn't hit, on the way through.

arch308 · July 15, 2012, 01:39 PM

It used to be the norm back in the day. That "little round ball" has taken countless game animals, not to mention alot of people as well.

Bill Akins · July 15, 2012, 02:07 PM

I think you and I have the same rifle. Mine is the CVA .50 cal, percussion, double set triggers, two wedges in the stock, pewter fore end cap, mountain rifle. Is that the same one you have? People at shoots I go to are always amazed at how accurate it is. Often it out shoots modern rifles. That long barrel really adds to the velocity and accuracy. It amazes me every time I ring the gong on the steel targets way out there just using the old open sights. Those CVA mountain .50's sure are accurate.

I've even made a convert to it. A young man who was at the range when I was shooting one day. Found him the same rifle on Guns America auctions and now he has one too, only with a rear mounted flip up ladder peep sight in addition to the regular barrel mounted rear sight. We became shooting buddies and now get together every once in a while to go shooting. He got so interested in BP after that, that he bought my stainless target '58 Remy from me. Definitely made a BP fan out of him.

.

Hawg · July 15, 2012, 02:20 PM

The Mountain Rifle was CVA's top of the line. Early ones had Douglas barrels. Most people when they say they have a CVA are talking about the short barreled St. Louis Hawken. A real load would have almost gone thru two 4X4's and will blow through both shoulders of a deer at 100 yards.

Al Den · July 15, 2012, 05:16 PM

You mean like this .50 of mine? Astounding rifle with the possible exception of the mainsprings which have a reputation for having to be replaced eventually...

Bill Akins · July 15, 2012, 06:54 PM

Yep, that's the same one I have Al Den, (and that my shooting buddy has too). Only mine has a built in brass patch compartment in the butt, a browned steel butt plate instead of the brass butt plate yours has and a different trigger guard than yours has. My trigger guard is not brass like yours but browned steel and is slightly different in design in that it has two hooks on it for hanging the fingers against. If you look carefully at the trigger guard on mine below you can see those hooks.....

Here's a joke pic from a few years ago of me holding mine along with my Bowie knife and a coonskin cap my sister gave me as a joke.

Below are several pics of my friend Pete shooting his at my place. He's the young man I introduced to black powder shooting. Pete's mountain rifle differs from mine in that his has a tang mounted ladder peep sight as well as the barrel mounted rear sight. The trigger guard on Pete's mountain rifle is also just like mine being browned steel with the two hooks and his has the built in patch compartment in the butt and the browned steel butt plate like mine does. His and mine are identical except his has that tang mounted ladder sight added.

I wonder when or why CVA changed from one trigger guard style to another?

.

Hawg · July 15, 2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

I wonder when or why CVA changed from one trigger guard style to another?

Probably when they quit making them in the USA and started having them in made in Spain.

FlySubCompact · July 16, 2012, 12:18 AM

Bill Akens,

Wish my CVA was as nice as the one you and your bud have. Mine is the bottom of the line, made in Spain, plastic stock, $60 one CVA sold right before they went totally "inline".

Bought it because it was a $60 .50 cal. that Wallyworld was closing out.

Now I do have a really nice Pedersoli (kit build, nice wood, set adjustable triggers, brass furniture), but it is a .36cal.

Hawg · July 16, 2012, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Now I do have a really nice Pedersoli (kit build, nice wood, set adjustable triggers, brass furniture), but it is a .36cal.

That's a nice one to have.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · July 16, 2012, 08:35 AM

Quote:

I'm figuring a round ball could go right through a medium sized deer? Especially with a stouter charge than 50 grains?

I shoot a 45 & a 54. Both have Rd ball barrels installed. 45-cal takes 75 gr. of black the 54 get 90. In all the deer I've taken with both. I have yet to find a Ball in any of my deer cavity's. I've even taken a couple out at 80 yards and have seen broken ribs at that distance. And have shot quite a few in the base of their necks in a little closer to me. Nothing!! Unlike my other modern rifles I seem to find fragments of there bullets all the time in those deer I've harvested. But not so with my Smoke Poles. Who knows. Maybe I'll get lucky this year and find a little piece of something that resembles a Ball to hang on that deers antlers. Sure would make my day if I could.

Hawg · July 16, 2012, 10:10 AM

You could probably drop that .54 down to 60 grains and recover a ball. I'm more of a fan of going all the way through tho. Most of my round ball deer are DRT but in case one isn't two holes makes a better blood trail than one any day.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · July 16, 2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

You could probably drop that .54 down to 60 grains and recover a ball

I probably could drop it Sir. But it shoot's so darn good with 90 out to that 100-yard mark. I'm think'in maybe it's the sweet spot in that rifle for that weight ball. (535) _A little hard on the upper arm. But, Hey Hawg. You know you only have to pull that trigger once on those 54s anyway. Never had to worry about a blood trail. Those deer that had their ticket punched with that 54 never seem to get out of eye site for some reason._

How are you feeling Sir gett'en back to normal are yaw?~~ I hope so.

Hawg · July 16, 2012, 02:21 PM

I can do a little more but it still feels like it's going to rip my chest open to cough. Doc says if I lift anything the weight of a case of water to get help. A case of water is not that heavy. He says I may can go back to work in 6-8 weeks. It sucks having to sell stuff to buy meds and food. That .54 will have another sweet spot around 120 grains.

**4V50 Gary** · July 18, 2012, 07:01 PM

In the days before jello was used as ballistic gelatin, wood was the medium against which gun's were tested. Near Morris Island, SC, the Union Army tested various guns for accuracy and penetration. Woods of various types, loose sand, and sand bags were subjected to fire from different guns.

Doc Hoy · July 19, 2012, 08:23 AM

I brought a Hawken in Flintlock back from a Med Cruise as a gift for my uncle who was an avid hunter.

He wanted it for deer.

He tested if on a four or five inch tree. It went through and he pronounced it to have more than enough stoppng power for deer in PA.

The rifle is now owned by my cousin who took a ten pointer with it and then retired it to his mantle.

July 15, 2012, 12:38 PM	#1
FlySubCompact Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2012 Posts: 306	Little round ball....amazing penetration My daughter's boyfreind has had little exposure to any kind of firearms (city kid, raised by a single mom). I've been teaching him safety and shooting. Decided to dust off my old .50 CVA rifle. I've been building a deck so I had lumber scraps for targets for him. I loaded with 50 grains of powder under a patched round ball. Target was a 2x6 (dry pine). Was thinking the board would stop the ball. Wrong.... Two, sandwiched together didn't even stop it. Finally grabbed a 4x4 chunk of post. That stopped the RB. Disected the post with a bandsaw. Found that RB stopped only 1/4" from the other side of the post. The wood target was set at an angle, so the RB penetrated 4" of hard, dried yellow pine. Actually, a little more because at the end of it's travel it j-hooked to the right about an inch. Had no idea a RB could do that. I never hunted with this BP rifle. I'm figuring a round ball could go right through a medium sized deer? Especially with a stouter charge than 50 grains?

July 15, 2012, 02:07 PM	#4
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	I think you and I have the same rifle. Mine is the CVA .50 cal, percussion, double set triggers, two wedges in the stock, pewter fore end cap, mountain rifle. Is that the same one you have? People at shoots I go to are always amazed at how accurate it is. Often it out shoots modern rifles. That long barrel really adds to the velocity and accuracy. It amazes me every time I ring the gong on the steel targets way out there just using the old open sights. Those CVA mountain .50's sure are accurate. I've even made a convert to it. A young man who was at the range when I was shooting one day. Found him the same rifle on Guns America auctions and now he has one too, only with a rear mounted flip up ladder peep sight in addition to the regular barrel mounted rear sight. We became shooting buddies and now get together every once in a while to go shooting. He got so interested in BP after that, that he bought my stainless target '58 Remy from me. Definitely made a BP fan out of him. . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; July 15, 2012 at 02:42 PM.

July 15, 2012, 06:54 PM	#7
Bill Akins Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2007 Location: Hudson, Florida Posts: 1,135	Yep, that's the same one I have Al Den, (and that my shooting buddy has too). Only mine has a built in brass patch compartment in the butt, a browned steel butt plate instead of the brass butt plate yours has and a different trigger guard than yours has. My trigger guard is not brass like yours but browned steel and is slightly different in design in that it has two hooks on it for hanging the fingers against. If you look carefully at the trigger guard on mine below you can see those hooks..... Here's a joke pic from a few years ago of me holding mine along with my Bowie knife and a coonskin cap my sister gave me as a joke. Below are several pics of my friend Pete shooting his at my place. He's the young man I introduced to black powder shooting. Pete's mountain rifle differs from mine in that his has a tang mounted ladder peep sight as well as the barrel mounted rear sight. The trigger guard on Pete's mountain rifle is also just like mine being browned steel with the two hooks and his has the built in patch compartment in the butt and the browned steel butt plate like mine does. His and mine are identical except his has that tang mounted ladder sight added. I wonder when or why CVA changed from one trigger guard style to another? . __________________ "This is my Remy and this is my Colt. Remy loads easy and topstrap strong, Colt balances better and never feels wrong. A repro black powder revolver gun, they smoke and shoot lead and give me much fun. I can't figure out which one I like better, they're both fine revolvers that fit in my leather". "To be sure of hitting the target, shoot first and call whatever you hit the target". Last edited by Bill Akins; July 16, 2012 at 05:04 AM.

July 18, 2012, 07:01 PM	#15
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	In the days before jello was used as ballistic gelatin, wood was the medium against which gun's were tested. Near Morris Island, SC, the Union Army tested various guns for accuracy and penetration. Woods of various types, loose sand, and sand bags were subjected to fire from different guns. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 19, 2012, 08:23 AM	#16
Doc Hoy Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: Naples, Fl Posts: 5,440	In the late 80s....(that would be the 1980s) I brought a Hawken in Flintlock back from a Med Cruise as a gift for my uncle who was an avid hunter. He wanted it for deer. He tested if on a four or five inch tree. It went through and he pronounced it to have more than enough stoppng power for deer in PA. The rifle is now owned by my cousin who took a ten pointer with it and then retired it to his mantle. __________________ Seek truth. Relax. Take a breath.

July 15, 2012, 01:17 PM	#2
mykeal Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 2006 Location: Northern Michigan Posts: 2,772	Depends on what it hits, or rather doesn't hit, on the way through.

July 15, 2012, 01:39 PM	#3
arch308 Senior Member Join Date: November 6, 2011 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 876	It used to be the norm back in the day. That "little round ball" has taken countless game animals, not to mention alot of people as well.

July 15, 2012, 02:20 PM	#5
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	The Mountain Rifle was CVA's top of the line. Early ones had Douglas barrels. Most people when they say they have a CVA are talking about the short barreled St. Louis Hawken. A real load would have almost gone thru two 4X4's and will blow through both shoulders of a deer at 100 yards.

July 16, 2012, 12:18 AM	#9
FlySubCompact Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2012 Posts: 306	Bill Akens, Wish my CVA was as nice as the one you and your bud have. Mine is the bottom of the line, made in Spain, plastic stock, $60 one CVA sold right before they went totally "inline". Bought it because it was a $60 .50 cal. that Wallyworld was closing out. Now I do have a really nice Pedersoli (kit build, nice wood, set adjustable triggers, brass furniture), but it is a .36cal.

July 16, 2012, 10:10 AM	#12
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	You could probably drop that .54 down to 60 grains and recover a ball. I'm more of a fan of going all the way through tho. Most of my round ball deer are DRT but in case one isn't two holes makes a better blood trail than one any day.

July 16, 2012, 02:21 PM	#14
Hawg Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 16,190	I can do a little more but it still feels like it's going to rip my chest open to cough. Doc says if I lift anything the weight of a case of water to get help. A case of water is not that heavy. He says I may can go back to work in 6-8 weeks. It sucks having to sell stuff to buy meds and food. That .54 will have another sweet spot around 120 grains.