The seldom discussed smallbore rifle

[fastforty]

Uh huh, you know that you don't see it being talked about much, though it was undoubtedly the most prevalent firearm on the American Frontier. Most frontiersmen weren't buffalo hunters, they predominantly hunted and ate small game, and there isn't enough left of a small game animal after being hit with a .50 caliber or larger projectile to make a decent stew. Yes, the smallbore rifle, in .30, .32, .36, or (questionably smallbore) .40 was what many people used to feed themselves and their families. Over the years, I have searched 15-20 pages deep in Google results from various related search terms & have only come up with a small handful of pitiful "discussions" concerning this subject.

I've been shooting a .44 Remington for about 25 years, and a .50 caliber inline for the last 6 or 8 years- all the while yearning for a decent smallbore rifle (they are rather scarce unless you contract a custom job). Just last weekend, I aquired a very nice Traditions Crockett in .32 from one of our members (Thanx Dennis ). From the very limited information that I could find online, it kinda looked like a person would do much better with a .36, but this deal was just too sweet to pass up & I have to say, I'm not the least disappointed (in fact, I'm quite delighted ).

I went out back this morning with a can of Pyrodex P & a can of GOEX FFFg (both cans are quite old, but have been stored properly & smelled sweet) and did some chronographing. In my other BP firearms, the Pyrodex outperformed the GOEX, with the real black powder kicking harder & giving lower velocities then the substitute. That was not the case with the smallbore rifle, as the GOEX performed nearly TWICE as well as the other (this might be attributed to the age of the powders, your mileage may vary). Here is the results that I got with patched .310 diameter, 45 grain round balls:

(*Says a quick prayer to the Formatting Gods, as I have pulled my hair out trying to post my ballistic tables here before*)

Pyrodex P

Charge (gr) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft lbs)
20..............1045............109
20..............1115............124
25..............1421............202
25..............1333............178
30..............1512............228
30..............1544............238
35..............1573............247
35..............1512............260
40..............1680............282
40..............1689............285

GOEX FFFg

Charge (gr) Velocity (fps) Energy (ft lbs)
20..............1589............252
20..............1637............268
25..............1887............356
25..............1879............353
30..............1989............395
30..............2017............407
35..............2096............439
35..............2074............430
40..............2117............448
40..............2113............446

On one of the posts that I found which spoke of this rifle, the poster made the statement "Only round balls can be shot from the Traditions Crockett". I also read in the downloaded version of the owner's manual that the charge limits were 10-25 grains of powder. The manual that came with this rifle lists charges as 20-40 grains and had no warning against using lubed bullets (in fact, it descrbes using them). So, I dropped a 165 grain lubed .32 cal bullet down the snout & gave it a trial flight. The bullet wasn't as snug as I would have liked it to be (only minimal resistence when rammed) & it wound up Keyholing at 25 yards due to lack of contact with the barrel rifling. The thinnest patch that I had felt real good until the next bullet was 3/4 of the way past the muzzle crown, then it got a tad tight for comfort so I pulled it back out while I could still grab it with a pair of dikes. That one loose fitting 165 grain bullet that I shot (with 20 grains of GOEX) went downrange with a velocity of 1729 fps, & muzzle energy of 1,096 ft lbs

All in all, this rifle met or exceeded even my wildest expectations. Not too loud, with very low recoil- even a young child would have fun shooting it. Can't wait to do it again, at ranges past 25 yards

(*Crosses fingers & pushes the "Post" button*)

[4V50 Gary]

You'll be amazed at how many muzzle loaders have small bore guns. While I don't know of anyone who has barked a squirrel with one, these pea shooters can certainly bring home the game. Like any modern gun, it's shot placement above anything else. Thank you for sharing your results.

[tinker2]

I like Hornady’s .32 cal 90 gr. SWC with a paper patch.
I use 30gr. of 2f in it, with a lubed patch over the powder
before I load the bullet. Then I shoot more round ball then
anything.

I have a .32 and up. I can’t think of any reason that people
say you should get at least a .36 .
Maybe some hunting requierment?
I can’t do anything better with a .36 then I can with a .32.



Tinker2

[ribbonstone]

Like the little 32 better than the 36...but will admit the 36 seems to hang on to accuracy a bit longer (just seems point where groups just go to pot, and the smaller the bore, the closer that spot seems to be). Really not much difference in accuracy at the ranges small game is normally taken with iron sights and the 32 is more fun.

However, a good wood ram-rod isn't easy to come by in so small a caliber...grain needs to run just right. So I cheat, and sneak a fberglass loading rod along (stull have the ram-rod under the barrel as a spare).

[Old Dragoon]

The best shooting Muzzle loading rifle I built had a Bill Large 32 Cal. 40 " X 11/16 inches across the flats Squirrel rifle. A Bedford County style, Flinter.
On a still day at the range outside Muncie Indian I could consiistantly hit a soda can at 100 yards. That was back when I could and did shoot every day. I did take some Indiana Red Squirrels and an Oklahome Grey Squirrel while on Vacation in Ok. I also got several rabbits with it. On those long shots if the wind was blowing very hard at all then it didn't do as well. But that old Kentucky Windage thing came into play after a few shots to gauge the windage, I loved my 32!
Bill Large quit making them shortly after as he ruined as many 40" X 11/16" bbl blanks as he made good ones. I know of two that were wonderful, mine and the squirrel rifle Art Holley made for my first wife. Hers had a 28" bbl and was percussion in the Bedford style. Boy I'd love to find a couple of those BBL.s today. I'd have to build another Flinter!

[Remington kid]

Years ago I ended up with a broken back and it took a long time to heal so I could get around half way decent again so I decided to build a long rifle from scratch. I had over 300 hours in my first one but it's a beautiful weapon.
It's a .45 caliber Kentucky with a Green river barrel and its so accurate that it's scary! Then I built two .40 for each of my boys and then a .32 for me for squirrel hunting.
Over the years I have taken Deer, Yotes, rabbit,fox, Turkey and snakes with my .45. Thanks to my boys pulling in the Deer for me I was able to hunt now and then and it kept me from going crazy My favorite thing used to be sitting in a squirrel woods at sun rise with my .32 and nailing tree rats. We have had countless pots of squirrel stew thanks to the accuracy of that .32 and the Green River barrels.

[Remington kid]

Here is my .32. Now you did it! I'm going to take it down today and shoot it a little, Haven't shot it lately.

[Steve499]

Thanks for the chronograph work, fastforty. I shoot 30 grains of Goex FFFg and round ball out of my .32 and have been amazed at it's destructiveness on close shots at small game. I guess with 2000 f.p.s. and a pure lead ball I understand it better, now.

I have also noticed accuracy seems to deteriorate badly past 40 yards or so with my .32. That's really not a factor since most shots are at 25 yards or less, but what's up with that? Is it the wind, my shooting or just something about a .32?

Steve

[banditt007]

steve, could it be that at around 40 yards the ball falls back under the speed of sound, and gets upset by the transition?

try to see if you can find a completely subsonic load and see if it holds accuracy further than the 40 yard brick wall its hitting now.

[Steve499]

That's a very interesting idea banditt007. Perhaps someone with a chronograph could shed some light on it. I know spherical ballistics is sort of a law unto itself but I wouldn't think a 2000 f.p.s. ball would slow down THAT fast. I dunno, though, it's a better theory than I ever came up with.

Steve

[sundance44s]

I`ve got a little 40 cal . early american rifle . loaded with 30 grs of 3f its a squrel and rabbit getter .. i`d shoot it in matches but its just not enough bullet for the big knock down targets , so she hangs on the wall as one of my favorites .

[Old Dragoon]

Steve499,
I remember using 40 grns FFFG when I had my 32 Cal. Wind greatly affects the smal dia balls.

[fastforty]

Hmmmmm..... While acruracy is quite good, putting the chrony out at 40 yards would surely enact Murphy's Law, & Lil Bessy would throw a knuckleball Hafta think on that a spell.

I hafta say, I really like this discussion; there has already been more said on this one page then I have been able to scare up over the whole rest of the internet

[Steve499]

fastforty, if you were around here, I'd make you up a 1/4 inch plate with a window to protect the chronograph screen and donate it to science.

I tried some conicals from an original .31 pocket revolver mould out of my .32. The results were such that I soon lost interest in it.

Steve

[banditt007]

fastforty, yeah i hear ya about shooting the dam chrono thing haha. I also feel that if we are starting out at 2k FPS, in 40 yards it wouldnt be below the speed of sound, which is what about 1200FPS?

However wind resistance does quadruple every time you double speed...

not too familiar w/ projectiles and how they bleed off speed ect so i was purely just throwing that out there for the more expereinced to either take the idea and run with it or shoot it down.

[fastforty]

I have a couple of ballistics programs around here somewhere that do all of the work from the ACSS (Arm Chair Shooting Stance). Here is a decent web based calculator the requires no download or installation:
http://www.handloads.com/calc/index.html

Randy Wakeman is quoted at:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/benefits_lead.htm
Saying (and the math works on the above linked calculator):

"Referring to Lyman (Black powder Handbook and Reloading Manual, 2nd Edition) you can find a .32 caliber rifle load, a bit larger than the bores of the most popular centerfire hunting rifles, launching its projectile at a surprising 2,488 fps muzzle velocity [& 619 ft lbs of energy]. Sadly, this speedy little wonder ball has a dismal ballistic coefficient of .043 and sheds its small amount of kinetic energy with astonishing aplomb. At 100 yards downrange, over 80% of its energy has vanished, leaving only a pathetic 111 ft. lbs."

"Pathetic" for large game, but adequate for small game. One of my reloading programs shows a .32 caliber round ball @ 2,000fps (& 1/2" sight height) only needs to hit 2-1/2" high at about 55-60 yards (top of the trajectory curve) in order to be dead on at 100 yards. Of course, it's well on it's way to freefall by then, it drops nearly 5" by 125 yards & about 12" by 150 yards.

[Steve499]

Wow, the 10 mph crosswind I gave my imaginary 45 grain ball drifted it over 10 inches at 100 yards! No wonder the groups open up at longer range. Good, no, excellent post fastforty.

This makes me want to try mine out at longer range to actually see on paper what it does as the distance gets greater.

Steve

[Jbar4Ranch]

I bought a Traditions Crockett last year too, great little rifle. I've also got a .32 cal Green Mountain barrel I fitted to my formerly .54 cal TC Hawken, talk about the original bull barrel!

[arcticap]

I bought this Traditions .36 Frontier Gander at the factory store 2-3 years ago. They said that it was the last one of about 10 they had made from "spare parts" and I have only shot it once or twice since. I took it to the range last Thursday and tried 777 for the very first time. A majority of the shots went into a 4 inch circle at 50 yards even though I kept fiddling around with the sights and tried both .015 and .018 patches.
The set trigger is stiff and the front trigger returns forward very slowly, but otherwise functions fine. I estimate the trigger weight at 3.5 lbs. unset and 1.5 lbs. once set and it's very smooth.
The barrel measures 27 inches long from the drum, it's 7/8's of an inch in diameter and the length of pull is 12 inches. It seems that this was a precursor to the Crockett Youth Rifle except in .36 caliber. Has anyone else ever seen one before?
The adjustable hunting sights are similiar to TC's with a wide rear notch and a somewhat large front bead which does not promote the best accuracy. But the barrel was factory drilled and tapped to possibly mount a scope. Overall, I'm pleased with the performance of the rifle, the caliber and the 777.

[fastforty]

Looks a tad stout compared to the Crockett, the barrel seems much heavier (should make for a fine target rifle, once everything is ironed out). If the trigger is the same as the one in the Crockett (& it most likely is), mine was the same way. It was quite easy to stone the set trigger smooth & it took the felt niche out, as well as making it *seem* much lighter in pull.

[arcticap]

The front sight bead isn't too big, it just seems that way when
aiming at a 4 inch target at 50 yards. I'm still getting used
to it and just breaking it in.
I'm pleased that it doesn't require very much powder either. But
I think the smaller calibers could benefit by using a powder drop
tube so that more powder drops down to the bottom of the barrel.
Here's my last target from shooting this week, and the
picture is just about true to scale.

[armedandsafe]

I gave my little /36 CVA Squirrel Rifle to Granddaughter when she was 7yo. She promptly put my shooting to shame and made her Dad start to work on his rifle skills.

Pops