Man with "flaming rag" charges police, kills officer with officer's own gun - Page 2

Mr. James · September 11, 2009, 12:43 PM

God bless both officers. As for Officer Crittenden, he made, trite as it sounds, the ultimate sacrifice. "Greater love than this hath no man. . . "

Réquiem æternam dona ei, Dómine.
Et lux perpétua lúceat ei.
Requiéscat in pace.
Amen.

Anima ejus, et ánimæ ómnium fidélium defunctórum,
per misericórdiam Dei
requiéscant in pace.
Amen.

TailGator · September 11, 2009, 01:51 PM

With regard to the safety issue, if Crittenden had been carrying a weapon with a safety, we would be debating whether the safety caused enough delay in his presentation of the weapon to have cost him his life. Catch 22 with no universal solution.

To me, it sounds like two cops acted heroically to protect a mother and daughter from harm. Heroism has a cost. We were all better for having shared this soil with Officer Crittenden. Lux aeterna luceat eis Domine.

armsmaster270 · September 11, 2009, 05:09 PM

Some officers enter on a domestic with tasers ready, however I wasn't there and I will not second guess Why the officers did or did not do this or that.

MLeake · September 11, 2009, 05:12 PM

... this was a non-emergency call of a possibility that an ex was at the residence in violation of a restraining order.

Going along with my earlier thoughts on expectations, I think if the officers had been given reason to believe violence would ensue, they'd have waited for more backup, either in the form of several large, gym-rat former wrestler officers, or in the form of a large K-9. After all, the potential victims were outside with the arriving officer and first backup responder, and nobody was at risk within the apartment.

The fact that they went in without more support, and that they allowed Terry to unlock the door and both Terry and her daughter to enter, indicates to me that they didn't expect any violent action.

Kyo · September 12, 2009, 10:28 PM

Ok, I am curious on some things.
First, I don't understand why they went inside, instead of going back outside when he was charging. Maybe it all happened too fast.
Also I am curious on if the officer in the altercation tried to remove the mag after the gun was taken. That would be a tactic to limit the use of the gun to 1 time, even though it was shot more than once.
This also brings up the mag safety as well. We don't know if it could have made a difference, anything could have really, but it could have been a factor here.
Sucks that this guy had to take someone's life to get taken off this planet.

MLeake · September 12, 2009, 11:52 PM

From what the article said:

1) They didn't go outside because in the initial charge, Officer Crittenden was hit in the head with a flaming rag, as he pushed Terry and her daughter out of the way of the attack.
2) Both officers were involved in the physical fight with Dockery, not just Crittenden.
3) Who knows if Officer Crittenden attempted to drop the magazine? So far, there's not enough detail to know if he was trying to draw and use his gun, and Dockery managed to take it from him, or if Dockery grabbed it while the officers were trying to subdue Dockery. It's possible Officer Crittenden didn't know Dockery had his gun until it was turned on him.
4) (Not from the article, per se) Unfortunately, whether it's cops here at home, or soldiers overseas, sometimes the good guys do their best and things still turn out badly.

iiwas · September 14, 2009, 12:46 PM

Well said sir!

TEDDY · September 18, 2009, 12:13 PM

I wont consider the officers. but domestic calls get more officers killed than any other.so this was a call about a violater who might be in the house.the officer should have at the least had her unlock the door and step back. why the daughter in such close proximity.the perp had to light the rag.and be waiting.the officers should have been ready for any thing.if he had his gun ready he could have shot immediately and eliminated all the rest.to much take them in and try them.you all will hessitate,which may prove a disaster as this.its you or them.if he fired immediately and had them stay back the perp would be the only one shot.

September 11, 2009, 12:43 PM	#26
Mr. James Senior Member Join Date: April 10, 2001 Location: The Old Dominion Posts: 1,521	God bless both officers. As for Officer Crittenden, he made, trite as it sounds, the ultimate sacrifice. "Greater love than this hath no man. . . " Réquiem æternam dona ei, Dómine. Et lux perpétua lúceat ei. Requiéscat in pace. Amen. Anima ejus, et ánimæ ómnium fidélium defunctórum, per misericórdiam Dei requiéscant in pace. Amen. __________________ "...A humble and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise." Ps. li "When law and morality contradict each other, the citizen has the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense or losing his respect for the law." —Frederic Bastiat

September 11, 2009, 05:09 PM	#28
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,951	Some officers enter on a domestic with tasers ready, however I wasn't there and I will not second guess Why the officers did or did not do this or that. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

September 11, 2009, 05:12 PM	#29
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	This wasn't really a domestic... ... this was a non-emergency call of a possibility that an ex was at the residence in violation of a restraining order. Going along with my earlier thoughts on expectations, I think if the officers had been given reason to believe violence would ensue, they'd have waited for more backup, either in the form of several large, gym-rat former wrestler officers, or in the form of a large K-9. After all, the potential victims were outside with the arriving officer and first backup responder, and nobody was at risk within the apartment. The fact that they went in without more support, and that they allowed Terry to unlock the door and both Terry and her daughter to enter, indicates to me that they didn't expect any violent action.

September 12, 2009, 10:28 PM	#30
Kyo Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2009 Posts: 897	Ok, I am curious on some things. First, I don't understand why they went inside, instead of going back outside when he was charging. Maybe it all happened too fast. Also I am curious on if the officer in the altercation tried to remove the mag after the gun was taken. That would be a tactic to limit the use of the gun to 1 time, even though it was shot more than once. This also brings up the mag safety as well. We don't know if it could have made a difference, anything could have really, but it could have been a factor here. Sucks that this guy had to take someone's life to get taken off this planet. __________________ 1. The gun is *always* loaded. 2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3. Keep your finger off the trigger unless you are ready to shoot. 4. Be be sure of your target and what is beyond it.

September 12, 2009, 11:52 PM	#31
MLeake Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2007 Location: Outside KC, MO Posts: 10,128	Answers for Kyo From what the article said: 1) They didn't go outside because in the initial charge, Officer Crittenden was hit in the head with a flaming rag, as he pushed Terry and her daughter out of the way of the attack. 2) Both officers were involved in the physical fight with Dockery, not just Crittenden. 3) Who knows if Officer Crittenden attempted to drop the magazine? So far, there's not enough detail to know if he was trying to draw and use his gun, and Dockery managed to take it from him, or if Dockery grabbed it while the officers were trying to subdue Dockery. It's possible Officer Crittenden didn't know Dockery had his gun until it was turned on him. 4) (Not from the article, per se) Unfortunately, whether it's cops here at home, or soldiers overseas, sometimes the good guys do their best and things still turn out badly. Last edited by MLeake; September 14, 2009 at 05:59 PM. Reason: flaming more than flying...

September 11, 2009, 01:51 PM	#27
TailGator Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2009 Location: Florida Posts: 3,787	With regard to the safety issue, if Crittenden had been carrying a weapon with a safety, we would be debating whether the safety caused enough delay in his presentation of the weapon to have cost him his life. Catch 22 with no universal solution. To me, it sounds like two cops acted heroically to protect a mother and daughter from harm. Heroism has a cost. We were all better for having shared this soil with Officer Crittenden. Lux aeterna luceat eis Domine.

September 14, 2009, 12:46 PM	#32
iiwas Member Join Date: August 15, 2005 Location: North-East Wisconsin Posts: 19	Well said sir! __________________ Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it. Mark Twain

September 18, 2009, 12:13 PM	#33
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	shooting I wont consider the officers. but domestic calls get more officers killed than any other.so this was a call about a violater who might be in the house.the officer should have at the least had her unlock the door and step back. why the daughter in such close proximity.the perp had to light the rag.and be waiting.the officers should have been ready for any thing.if he had his gun ready he could have shot immediately and eliminated all the rest.to much take them in and try them.you all will hessitate,which may prove a disaster as this.its you or them.if he fired immediately and had them stay back the perp would be the only one shot.