in relation w/ SMG...obsolete... M4 vs. HK53

paltik · January 7, 1999, 01:00 AM

im just wondering why was the M4 was chosen and the HK53 not, is the M4 much better in what way? Im just wondering, coz, w regards to handling,etc. MP5 is the best,thats why it won the hearts of many, and HK53 is very much similar with MP5,
What do you think????

------------------
REY MARIANO

Jeff White · January 7, 1999, 08:38 PM

Rey,
The M4 shares many parts with the current M16A2. It's also very similar to shoot so less training time.

The MP5 is only fielded in special units in the US Army. But every soldier knows how to use an M16.
Jeff

**4V50 Gary** · January 7, 1999, 10:08 PM

Jeff put it more succinctly that I could.

Personally, having trained with it, I am very fond of the MP5 in 40 S&W (haven't tried the 10mm version) and it holds a special place in my heart. I am also familar with the G3 series of rifles and have lots of experience with the civilian versions in 7.62 and 5.56 mm Nato. Use to shoot a HK91 rifle virtually every other weekend when I was in college (they cost only $385 new back in 1978). While the HK53 and the HK family of weapons certainly has its merits and a lot going for them, Jeff is right on the money when he talks about
advantages of the M4.

As part of the M16 family of weapons and no extra training being required. Another major advantage mentioned by Jeff is the commonality of parts (in our armed forces). Military armorers won't have to stock up on so many extra types of parts, have another set of tools (did you realize that there's a special dent removing tool for the HK receiver which probably costs about as much as a mortgage payment?) to service a 2nd type of gun, and require additional training? Think of it, two soliders, one a truck driver with an M4 and another an infantryman with an M16. They can trade rifles without having to trade magazines. How much simplier can it get?

Is the Stoner system superior to the delayed blowback of H&K? I won't get into that here and I think Edmund Rowe started an interesting thread elsewhere in The Firing Line which you may find amusing.

TMC · January 9, 1999, 12:03 AM

No one touched on drastic differance in the ammo. A high velocity rifle cartirdge compared to a relativley slow pistol cartridge. Some advantage here?

**4V50 Gary** · January 10, 1999, 09:05 AM

Here's a breakdown on H&Ks:

Light Machine Guns:
HK11 - 7.62x51
HK12 - 7.62 x39
HK13 - 5.56x45
HK17 - .243 Win

General Purpose Machine Guns:
HK21 - 7.62x51
HK22 - 7.62x39
HK23 - 5.56x45
HK27 - .243 Win

Service Rifle
G3 - 7.62-x51
HK32 - 7.62x39
HK33 - 5.56x45
HK36 - 4.5x39mm

Single Action Rifle
HK41 - 7.62x51, modernly HK91
HK43 j- 5.56x45, modernly HK93
HK94 - 9mm

SMG
HK53 - 5.56x45
MP5 - 9mm

I won't bother with all the trigger groups, collaspable stocks and the PDW etc.

Michael Carlin · January 13, 1999, 10:47 AM

Don't forget my favorite MP5, the MP5/10 in 10mm. Da 10 be da 1!

------------------
Ni ellegimit carborundum esse!

Yours In Marksmanship

michael

January 7, 1999, 01:00 AM	#1
paltik Member Join Date: December 6, 1998 Location: Philippines Posts: 92	im just wondering why was the M4 was chosen and the HK53 not, is the M4 much better in what way? Im just wondering, coz, w regards to handling,etc. MP5 is the best,thats why it won the hearts of many, and HK53 is very much similar with MP5, What do you think???? ------------------ REY MARIANO

January 7, 1999, 08:38 PM	#2
Jeff White Senior Member Join Date: October 29, 1998 Location: Kinmundy, IL, USA Posts: 1,397	Rey, The M4 shares many parts with the current M16A2. It's also very similar to shoot so less training time. The MP5 is only fielded in special units in the US Army. But every soldier knows how to use an M16. Jeff

January 7, 1999, 10:08 PM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Jeff put it more succinctly that I could. Personally, having trained with it, I am very fond of the MP5 in 40 S&W (haven't tried the 10mm version) and it holds a special place in my heart. I am also familar with the G3 series of rifles and have lots of experience with the civilian versions in 7.62 and 5.56 mm Nato. Use to shoot a HK91 rifle virtually every other weekend when I was in college (they cost only $385 new back in 1978). While the HK53 and the HK family of weapons certainly has its merits and a lot going for them, Jeff is right on the money when he talks about advantages of the M4. As part of the M16 family of weapons and no extra training being required. Another major advantage mentioned by Jeff is the commonality of parts (in our armed forces). Military armorers won't have to stock up on so many extra types of parts, have another set of tools (did you realize that there's a special dent removing tool for the HK receiver which probably costs about as much as a mortgage payment?) to service a 2nd type of gun, and require additional training? Think of it, two soliders, one a truck driver with an M4 and another an infantryman with an M16. They can trade rifles without having to trade magazines. How much simplier can it get? Is the Stoner system superior to the delayed blowback of H&K? I won't get into that here and I think Edmund Rowe started an interesting thread elsewhere in The Firing Line which you may find amusing.

January 9, 1999, 12:03 AM	#4
TMC Member Join Date: November 7, 1998 Posts: 92	No one touched on drastic differance in the ammo. A high velocity rifle cartirdge compared to a relativley slow pistol cartridge. Some advantage here?

January 10, 1999, 09:05 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Here's a breakdown on H&Ks: Light Machine Guns: HK11 - 7.62x51 HK12 - 7.62 x39 HK13 - 5.56x45 HK17 - .243 Win General Purpose Machine Guns: HK21 - 7.62x51 HK22 - 7.62x39 HK23 - 5.56x45 HK27 - .243 Win Service Rifle G3 - 7.62-x51 HK32 - 7.62x39 HK33 - 5.56x45 HK36 - 4.5x39mm Single Action Rifle HK41 - 7.62x51, modernly HK91 HK43 j- 5.56x45, modernly HK93 HK94 - 9mm SMG HK53 - 5.56x45 MP5 - 9mm I won't bother with all the trigger groups, collaspable stocks and the PDW etc.

January 13, 1999, 10:47 AM	#6
Michael Carlin Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 1998 Location: Fredericksburg, VA USA Posts: 193	Don't forget my favorite MP5, the MP5/10 in 10mm. Da 10 be da 1! ------------------ Ni ellegimit carborundum esse! Yours In Marksmanship michael