having problems starting out -- depriming

MikeGoob · March 28, 2008, 10:18 AM

Ok what am I doing wrong--Im new to all of this so im starting small. Im using a lee hand press, its small and im just wanting to get the process down before I get into a 'real' press. Im using lee dies and the caliber im loading is 7.62x25. Simply because theres no steady supply of them where I live and the price is always above average for what I usually shoot--9mm and 38.

Anyway im starting with some practice moves--depriming. And im already stumped. I load the depriming die and lubed a case, squeezed and pop, out came the primer just fine. NEXT time it was a military surplus case and I squeezed, and retried, and squeezed and nothing was happening--I look and the deprime rod inside the die is coming out the top of the die! I use two wrenches to loosen it and then reposition the deprime rod flush with the top knob and try again on a new winchester shell (after reading the military brass is sometimes crimped into the shell) and STILL the shell wont be deprimed--the rod is coming out the top again. What am I doing wrong?

The Lovemaster · March 28, 2008, 10:31 AM

What you have is a crimped military primer. I've never used a hand press, but my Rockchucker and a Lee Universal Decapping die pop these primers right out. You can verify it's a crimp by looking closely at the primer (I use a magnifying glass) - look for a ring that between the primer walls and the case that partially covers the case. It's hard to explain, but once you see one, you'll recognize them.

The military uses these crimped primers sometimes, I presume it's to keep them from displacing during weapon firing.

Wibb · March 28, 2008, 10:48 AM

Are you sure that your x25 cases aren't Berdan primed? The crimp could be an issue, but that would be one tight crimp.

PS. If you bought that stuff surplus, you might want to make sure it's not corrosive ammo. That stuff can tear a great gun up in no time.

Darren007 · March 28, 2008, 10:48 AM

Sounds more like you tried to deprime a Berdan primered case. You mentioned it was a military surplus case of 9x25mm. Most if not all military surplus from Europe is berdan primed.

The difference is Berdan primers use two flash holes, whereas a boxer primed case has only one. If you try to run a berdan primed case in a conventional sizing die the decapper rod just hits the case in between the two holes.

When you tried it again on Winchester case and still had rod slippage, you may not have torqued the nut down enough.

MikeGoob · March 28, 2008, 11:23 AM

Thanks for the help! I had a bunch of modern brass that I shot: new winchester white box stuff. I was intending to use the new stuff for reloading but wanted to deprime the military surplus just to do it.

I have no problem with cleaning out my barrel with water/windex after shooting, but in the future with reloading i can at least not have to and save some money.

So all it is, is not tightening the cap that holds the depriming rod enough?

CrustyFN · March 28, 2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

So all it is, is not tightening the cap that holds the depriming rod enough?

It's enough if they are all boxer primed. I decap crimped primers all the time with my Lee dies but the nut that holds the decaping stem is very tight.
Rusty

ryalred · March 28, 2008, 01:20 PM

Ditto to CrustyFN's response.

MikeGoob · March 28, 2008, 01:40 PM

I assumed that the winchester would have the common 'normal' primer but I think these are made and imported from 'checzk' country and may not be.

Learning a lot! thank you again guys.

snuffy · March 28, 2008, 01:40 PM

Does the headstamp of that surplus stuff read like this?
33-23-52- then 21 inside an oval? Then it IS berdan primed Russian surplus. It cannot be reloaded and is definitely corrosive.

TatersDad81 · March 28, 2008, 04:30 PM

I actually broke 2 RCBS Universal Decapping dies before I figured out what I was doing wrong. I felt silly when someone explained the difference to me, but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and I learned the lesson. I stay away from this type of brass now...

CrustyFN · March 28, 2008, 05:36 PM

I have been finding a lot of nato 9mm brass at the range lately with crimped primers.
Rusty

Dumpster Baby · March 28, 2008, 06:13 PM

The ONLY tools I ever use for removing crimped primers is a Lee or Wilson punch and base set. They're available in .22 and .30 cal sizes, and require a rawhide mallet to whack the depriming punch. Some military primers are crimped in so well that it takes several good whacks to punch them out. These are heavy duty punches but it's still possible to break them. The depriming stems and pins in die sets are far weaker by comparison.

The Lee punch sets are $5.00 and replacement punches are $2.50 each. You can't beat that except by making your own in your basement machine shop. The Wilson punches are $7.69 each at Midway and the bases are $4.49 each. The Wilson catalog lists the set for $16.00. The Lee set is very universal in nature but the Wilson parts are caliber specific - doesn't make much sense to me. As long as the punch fits through the case mouth and the hole in the base is large enough to pass the primer, that's all you need. You don't even need the base if you have a piece of hardwood or hard plastic with a hole in it for the spent primers to fall into.

The DRIVING FORCE:

There are also dedicated universal depriming dies from several companies, but they can be broken a lot easier than the hammer driven manual punches. I've never used one and never will. I've broken ONE manual punch in 35 years, and that was because a Berdan case sneaked into a batch of Lake City brass.

I never ream the primer pockets. I swage the crimp out with a RCBS primer pocket swager. The swaged cases are converted to a commercial primer pocket permanently and extremely uniformly. Reaming sucks.

I sometimes drag my crap to my easy chair, lay a board on my lap, and pound out primers while watching TV. You have old primers and primer grit building up while doing this, so lay a towel across your lap first.

TEDDY · March 30, 2008, 06:53 PM

one reason I bought the lee turret was because I had single stage presses and hand presses and I was tired of fussing with the week ones.I decap with a bonanza and lee universal.the turret also keeps all dies together.my tru lines are dedicated to caliber.the RCBS is best sweger.
dont worry about corrosive priming.I have a 1903/that has a 1914 barrel just like new.no way it escaped corrosive.just use soap and water. and those 7.63 x25 were manly used in sub guns with blow back so the primer was unsupported on the way out like any MG.

March 28, 2008, 10:18 AM	#1
MikeGoob Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Posts: 876	having problems starting out -- depriming Ok what am I doing wrong--Im new to all of this so im starting small. Im using a lee hand press, its small and im just wanting to get the process down before I get into a 'real' press. Im using lee dies and the caliber im loading is 7.62x25. Simply because theres no steady supply of them where I live and the price is always above average for what I usually shoot--9mm and 38. Anyway im starting with some practice moves--depriming. And im already stumped. I load the depriming die and lubed a case, squeezed and pop, out came the primer just fine. NEXT time it was a military surplus case and I squeezed, and retried, and squeezed and nothing was happening--I look and the deprime rod inside the die is coming out the top of the die! I use two wrenches to loosen it and then reposition the deprime rod flush with the top knob and try again on a new winchester shell (after reading the military brass is sometimes crimped into the shell) and STILL the shell wont be deprimed--the rod is coming out the top again. What am I doing wrong?

March 28, 2008, 01:40 PM	#9
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	Does the headstamp of that surplus stuff read like this? 33-23-52- then 21 inside an oval? Then it IS berdan primed Russian surplus. It cannot be reloaded and is definitely corrosive. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

March 28, 2008, 04:30 PM	#10
TatersDad81 Junior Member Join Date: March 27, 2008 Location: Dayton, Ohio Posts: 7	Decapping Nightmare I actually broke 2 RCBS Universal Decapping dies before I figured out what I was doing wrong. I felt silly when someone explained the difference to me, but you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs, and I learned the lesson. I stay away from this type of brass now...

March 28, 2008, 05:36 PM	#11
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	I have been finding a lot of nato 9mm brass at the range lately with crimped primers. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.

March 30, 2008, 06:53 PM	#13
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	decapping one reason I bought the lee turret was because I had single stage presses and hand presses and I was tired of fussing with the week ones.I decap with a bonanza and lee universal.the turret also keeps all dies together.my tru lines are dedicated to caliber.the RCBS is best sweger. dont worry about corrosive priming.I have a 1903/that has a 1914 barrel just like new.no way it escaped corrosive.just use soap and water. and those 7.63 x25 were manly used in sub guns with blow back so the primer was unsupported on the way out like any MG.

March 28, 2008, 10:31 AM	#2
The Lovemaster Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 416	What you have is a crimped military primer. I've never used a hand press, but my Rockchucker and a Lee Universal Decapping die pop these primers right out. You can verify it's a crimp by looking closely at the primer (I use a magnifying glass) - look for a ring that between the primer walls and the case that partially covers the case. It's hard to explain, but once you see one, you'll recognize them. The military uses these crimped primers sometimes, I presume it's to keep them from displacing during weapon firing.

March 28, 2008, 10:48 AM	#3
Wibb Member Join Date: August 13, 2006 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 44	Are you sure that your x25 cases aren't Berdan primed? The crimp could be an issue, but that would be one tight crimp. PS. If you bought that stuff surplus, you might want to make sure it's not corrosive ammo. That stuff can tear a great gun up in no time.

March 28, 2008, 10:48 AM	#4
Darren007 Senior Member Join Date: November 18, 2007 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,053	Sounds more like you tried to deprime a Berdan primered case. You mentioned it was a military surplus case of 9x25mm. Most if not all military surplus from Europe is berdan primed. The difference is Berdan primers use two flash holes, whereas a boxer primed case has only one. If you try to run a berdan primed case in a conventional sizing die the decapper rod just hits the case in between the two holes. When you tried it again on Winchester case and still had rod slippage, you may not have torqued the nut down enough.

March 28, 2008, 11:23 AM	#5
MikeGoob Senior Member Join Date: January 31, 2006 Posts: 876	Thanks for the help! I had a bunch of modern brass that I shot: new winchester white box stuff. I was intending to use the new stuff for reloading but wanted to deprime the military surplus just to do it. I have no problem with cleaning out my barrel with water/windex after shooting, but in the future with reloading i can at least not have to and save some money. So all it is, is not tightening the cap that holds the depriming rod enough?

March 28, 2008, 01:20 PM	#7
ryalred Senior Member Join Date: March 24, 2008 Location: SE Oklahoma Posts: 491	Ditto to CrustyFN's response.

March 28, 2008, 06:13 PM	#12
Dumpster Baby Member Join Date: January 12, 2008 Posts: 16	The ONLY tools I ever use for removing crimped primers is a Lee or Wilson punch and base set. They're available in .22 and .30 cal sizes, and require a rawhide mallet to whack the depriming punch. Some military primers are crimped in so well that it takes several good whacks to punch them out. These are heavy duty punches but it's still possible to break them. The depriming stems and pins in die sets are far weaker by comparison. The Lee punch sets are $5.00 and replacement punches are $2.50 each. You can't beat that except by making your own in your basement machine shop. The Wilson punches are $7.69 each at Midway and the bases are $4.49 each. The Wilson catalog lists the set for $16.00. The Lee set is very universal in nature but the Wilson parts are caliber specific - doesn't make much sense to me. As long as the punch fits through the case mouth and the hole in the base is large enough to pass the primer, that's all you need. You don't even need the base if you have a piece of hardwood or hard plastic with a hole in it for the spent primers to fall into. The DRIVING FORCE: There are also dedicated universal depriming dies from several companies, but they can be broken a lot easier than the hammer driven manual punches. I've never used one and never will. I've broken ONE manual punch in 35 years, and that was because a Berdan case sneaked into a batch of Lake City brass. I never ream the primer pockets. I swage the crimp out with a RCBS primer pocket swager. The swaged cases are converted to a commercial primer pocket permanently and extremely uniformly. Reaming sucks. I sometimes drag my crap to my easy chair, lay a board on my lap, and pound out primers while watching TV. You have old primers and primer grit building up while doing this, so lay a towel across your lap first.