why don't 18" "police" barrels for 870's have chokes?

therealtwitch · September 12, 2009, 05:24 PM

I bought an 18" police barrel for my 870 express from cabelias and notices that they are not threaded for chokes. Just curious as to why this is?

Crosshair · September 12, 2009, 05:27 PM

Because most people use them for personal defense and as such most people will either be using slugs or buckshot at short range thus a fixed Cylinder Bore choke.

For PD work having a rapid spread at short range is considered a good thing, thus there is no provision for chokes because most people don't want them.

hrr6011 · September 12, 2009, 05:49 PM

Ditto to what crosshair commented.18" police cylinder bore barrels are for special purposes.As are 24,26,28,30 inch choked barrels.You buy slicks for drag racing,not to drive on the street.

oneounceload · September 12, 2009, 05:49 PM

It also costs more....those guns are very price-point sensitive

Sarge · September 12, 2009, 06:03 PM

My current LE shotgun is an early 90's '870 Special Purpose' with the 21" turkey barrel and screw in chokes. Mine wears the Improved Cylinder tube and it will keep a load of 00 Buck in a nice round pattern that will stay well inside a man's chest, at 20 paces. That's exactly what we want from a LE shotgun- not stray pellets looking for innocent bystanders or church bus windshields, to accost.

The same barrel & choke tube will duplicate those results using Super X slugs, out to about 65 yards.

The only way I could really improve on this shotgun would be to get these same results, with a 3 inch shorter barrel. At one time, 870 P's actually came with a fixed-choke IC barrel. I've handled & fired a number of them over the years; IIRC they were all 20" shotguns. If you beat the gunshows and internet auctions enough, you'll probably find one.

I can think of at least three reasons why you're not seeing them now.

One is that interchangeable choke tubes are now almost 'standard equipment' on new shotguns.

Two is that Remington can make the Cylinder tubes cheaper than either fixed choke or RemChoke barrels.

Three is that Remington can sell all of the Cylinder choked, LE/HD shotguns they can make- as fast as they can make them. There is simply no market pressure for them to do otherwise.

I'd be happy if they'd just offer a bead-sighted, 18" RemChoke barrel as an aftermarket item.

therealtwitch · September 12, 2009, 11:21 PM

hrr6011 nice post. I like that. nice way to put it in perspective.

RedneckFur · September 13, 2009, 02:38 AM

I've got a Remington 870 Magnum wingmaster police model from 1986. Its got a cylinder bore barrel, and shoots foster slugs like nobody's buisness, grouping them in a cloverleaf at 50 yards. Also keeps all buckshot in a 30" circle at 20 yards, perfect for close range hunting or LE work.

The Remington police guns were made for close range work, and work best that way. If you plan to hunt with it, you'll need a remchoke barrel too.

I got a great one from RantingRedneck on this board.

SeekHer · September 13, 2009, 05:14 AM

I really see no difference in the handling of a 18½" to a 20/21" barrelled shotgun--for HD purposes...Getting in and out of a vehicle may pose a different situation...It will not give you any increase in velocity but will give you a slightly longer sighting plane and possibly lessened muzzle flash...

Cylinder is not a choke, it is a straight piece of pipe...choke only occurs when you begin to constrict the end of the tube --IC, SK1, SK2, LM, M, IM, LF, F, XF and/or turkey...Although they do make a cylinder screw-in tube, that's only to protect the threads from damage...

For HD my preference is for a Light Modified (LM) or Modified (M) choke just in case I have to shoot at 15 yds (the length of the house) and my coach gun is bored M/IM (Improved modified) taken down from full but both pattern on the loose side of their ratings...

For some reason, rifled slugs, usually perform better from a choked barrel then cylinder but buckshot doesn't particularly like anything more then modified before starting to make donut patterns...

There are some after market barrel makers that have short barrels with tubes for yours...check out the big name gunnies like Brownell's, Midway etc...

FYI
Choke.....% in 30" circle at 40 yds
Cylinder.....40
Skeet........45
Skeet 1.....(46.5)
Skeet 2.....(48.5)
Imp Cyl......50
Light Mod...55
Modified.....60
Imp Mod.....65
Light Full....68
Full...........70
Extra Full ...75
Super Full...80

Laz · September 13, 2009, 08:49 AM

I believe current 870 Police shotguns are, in fact, choked to improved cylinder and it says so on the Remington LE website. I'm not sure when that began but I believe they went to fixed IC choke to provide a better pattern with buckshot and more accuracy with slugs. I think the current Express HD type guns are still cylinder bore but could be wrong.

PetahW · September 13, 2009, 09:11 AM

Police Department officials are not interested in having their officers carry/lose extra gun parts, like choke tubes - nor get into having said officers get into changing stuff - more properly the job of the armorer in an organization.
Especially an organization where the vast majority of members are not gun-oriented, and only touch their weapons when they absolutely have to, as in a "situation" or for qualifying.

Vintage Police-model shotguns were usually referred to as "riot guns", and most were full choke short barrels with a front bead only - slugs not yet then in common use.

They were used, in addition to firing directly at personell, for rioting crowd control via shooting at the ground/pavement just in front of said rioters.
The richochet usually picked up all sorts of dirt/gravel, which travelled along with the shot charge, making for a very effective street/alley cleaning "tool".

.

Come and take it. · September 13, 2009, 12:13 PM

A lot of police prefer to have shotguns with slugs loaded in the magazine tube. Especially with todays improved sighting systems such as red dot sights or low magnification shotgun scopes.

rugerfreak · September 13, 2009, 04:58 PM

These come threaded for chokes:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...sert_Recon.asp

It would make an excellent all round shotgun once you got a set of Rem-chokes and ditched the tactical thingy.

September 12, 2009, 05:24 PM	#1
therealtwitch Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2007 Location: Mesa, Az Posts: 358	why don't 18" "police" barrels for 870's have chokes? I bought an 18" police barrel for my 870 express from cabelias and notices that they are not threaded for chokes. Just curious as to why this is?

September 12, 2009, 05:27 PM	#2
Crosshair Senior Member Join Date: December 16, 2004 Location: Grand Forks, ND Posts: 5,333	Because most people use them for personal defense and as such most people will either be using slugs or buckshot at short range thus a fixed Cylinder Bore choke. For PD work having a rapid spread at short range is considered a good thing, thus there is no provision for chokes because most people don't want them. __________________ I don't carry a gun to go looking for trouble, I carry a gun in case trouble finds me.

September 12, 2009, 06:03 PM	#5
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	My current LE shotgun is an early 90's '870 Special Purpose' with the 21" turkey barrel and screw in chokes. Mine wears the Improved Cylinder tube and it will keep a load of 00 Buck in a nice round pattern that will stay well inside a man's chest, at 20 paces. That's exactly what we want from a LE shotgun- not stray pellets looking for innocent bystanders or church bus windshields, to accost. The same barrel & choke tube will duplicate those results using Super X slugs, out to about 65 yards. The only way I could really improve on this shotgun would be to get these same results, with a 3 inch shorter barrel. At one time, 870 P's actually came with a fixed-choke IC barrel. I've handled & fired a number of them over the years; IIRC they were all 20" shotguns. If you beat the gunshows and internet auctions enough, you'll probably find one. I can think of at least three reasons why you're not seeing them now. One is that interchangeable choke tubes are now almost 'standard equipment' on new shotguns. Two is that Remington can make the Cylinder tubes cheaper than either fixed choke or RemChoke barrels. Three is that Remington can sell all of the Cylinder choked, LE/HD shotguns they can make- as fast as they can make them. There is simply no market pressure for them to do otherwise. I'd be happy if they'd just offer a bead-sighted, 18" RemChoke barrel as an aftermarket item. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

September 13, 2009, 02:38 AM	#7
RedneckFur Senior Member Join Date: January 14, 2007 Location: Central NC Posts: 1,424	I've got a Remington 870 Magnum wingmaster police model from 1986. Its got a cylinder bore barrel, and shoots foster slugs like nobody's buisness, grouping them in a cloverleaf at 50 yards. Also keeps all buckshot in a 30" circle at 20 yards, perfect for close range hunting or LE work. The Remington police guns were made for close range work, and work best that way. If you plan to hunt with it, you'll need a remchoke barrel too. I got a great one from RantingRedneck on this board. __________________ In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act. -George Orwell

September 13, 2009, 05:14 AM	#8
SeekHer Senior Member Join Date: August 4, 2005 Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada Posts: 295	I really see no difference in the handling of a 18½" to a 20/21" barrelled shotgun--for HD purposes...Getting in and out of a vehicle may pose a different situation...It will not give you any increase in velocity but will give you a slightly longer sighting plane and possibly lessened muzzle flash... Cylinder is not a choke, it is a straight piece of pipe...choke only occurs when you begin to constrict the end of the tube --IC, SK1, SK2, LM, M, IM, LF, F, XF and/or turkey...Although they do make a cylinder screw-in tube, that's only to protect the threads from damage... For HD my preference is for a Light Modified (LM) or Modified (M) choke just in case I have to shoot at 15 yds (the length of the house) and my coach gun is bored M/IM (Improved modified) taken down from full but both pattern on the loose side of their ratings... For some reason, rifled slugs, usually perform better from a choked barrel then cylinder but buckshot doesn't particularly like anything more then modified before starting to make donut patterns... There are some after market barrel makers that have short barrels with tubes for yours...check out the big name gunnies like Brownell's, Midway etc... FYI Choke.....% in 30" circle at 40 yds Cylinder.....40 Skeet........45 Skeet 1.....(46.5) Skeet 2.....(48.5) Imp Cyl......50 Light Mod...55 Modified.....60 Imp Mod.....65 Light Full....68 Full...........70 Extra Full ...75 Super Full...80 __________________ There is a certain type of mentality that thinks if you make certain inanimate objects illegal their criminal misuse will disappear! When the human race dies out, it will be because it was brainwashed to be so totally, completely, utterly safe that it no longer dared to keep on living

September 12, 2009, 05:49 PM	#3
hrr6011 Junior Member Join Date: September 12, 2009 Location: Houston,Texas Posts: 7	Ditto to what crosshair commented.18" police cylinder bore barrels are for special purposes.As are 24,26,28,30 inch choked barrels.You buy slicks for drag racing,not to drive on the street.

September 12, 2009, 05:49 PM	#4
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	It also costs more....those guns are very price-point sensitive

September 12, 2009, 11:21 PM	#6
therealtwitch Senior Member Join Date: February 7, 2007 Location: Mesa, Az Posts: 358	hrr6011 nice post. I like that. nice way to put it in perspective.

September 13, 2009, 08:49 AM	#9
Laz Senior Member Join Date: November 12, 1999 Posts: 1,278	I believe current 870 Police shotguns are, in fact, choked to improved cylinder and it says so on the Remington LE website. I'm not sure when that began but I believe they went to fixed IC choke to provide a better pattern with buckshot and more accuracy with slugs. I think the current Express HD type guns are still cylinder bore but could be wrong. __________________ Laz I’m just a nobody, trying to tell everybody, about Somebody, who can save anybody.

September 13, 2009, 09:11 AM	#10
PetahW Senior Member Join Date: September 19, 2008 Posts: 4,678	Police Department officials are not interested in having their officers carry/lose extra gun parts, like choke tubes - nor get into having said officers get into changing stuff - more properly the job of the armorer in an organization. Especially an organization where the vast majority of members are not gun-oriented, and only touch their weapons when they absolutely have to, as in a "situation" or for qualifying. Vintage Police-model shotguns were usually referred to as "riot guns", and most were full choke short barrels with a front bead only - slugs not yet then in common use. They were used, in addition to firing directly at personell, for rioting crowd control via shooting at the ground/pavement just in front of said rioters. The richochet usually picked up all sorts of dirt/gravel, which travelled along with the shot charge, making for a very effective street/alley cleaning "tool". .

September 13, 2009, 12:13 PM	#11
Come and take it. Senior Member Join Date: May 16, 2009 Location: Kentucky Posts: 999	A lot of police prefer to have shotguns with slugs loaded in the magazine tube. Especially with todays improved sighting systems such as red dot sights or low magnification shotgun scopes.

September 13, 2009, 04:58 PM	#12
rugerfreak Senior Member Join Date: March 26, 2001 Posts: 819	These come threaded for chokes: http://www.remington.com/products/fi...sert_Recon.asp It would make an excellent all round shotgun once you got a set of Rem-chokes and ditched the tactical thingy.