Best Assault Rifle In Your Opinion ? - Page 2

point308 · March 29, 2000, 05:23 AM

A Crumpet is kinda like a thick pancake. Made with Wheat flour, water, sugar, Salt, Acid (Glucono Delta-Lactone), yeast, perservative (Potassium sorbate), stabiliser (hydroxypropylmethylcellulose).
Served lightly grilled or toasted, with butter or jam. Just having one now, with my tea.

The SA80 is a difficult weapon to clean, there are two retaining pins in the bolt carrier that are easy to lose. Other problems include a mainspring which is not powerful enough to strip the live round from the top of a full magazine, lots of small parts to lose, the SUSAT sight steams up, iron sights that fall off, sensitive to dirt, heavy trigger pull etc etc.

The Design Authority for SA80, formerly Royal Ordnance but now Heckler and Koch UK (Ltd.), was tasked in 1996 to investigate the reliability of the SA80 weapon system. Heckler and Koch reported in 1998 that there might be underlying problems with the reliability of the system and presented their proposals for modifications. A contract was placed in mid-1998 with Heckler and Koch for the modification of 200 weapons to be used for trials to determine the effectiveness of these modifications. Deliveries of these modified weapons were made in January 1999. The MOD conducted user trials in hot and cold climatic conditions with a range of NATO ammunition types. The trials were completed in July 1999 and the formal Design Authority report was delivered to the MOD in late December 1999. The trials confirmed that, after modification, there were significant improvements in the reliability of both the SA80 rifle and Light Support Weapon. Urgent work is in hand to assess the wider implications of the Design Authority report, including the cost, and a decision on any modification programme is expected by the end of March 2000.
The SA80 weapon system remains suspended from the NATO Nominated Weapons List, the list of weapons for use in the testing of
NATO approved ammunition types.

Point308.

[This message has been edited by point308 (edited March 29, 2000).]

Shin-Tao · March 30, 2000, 12:42 PM

Sounds like SA80 needs slightly lighter bolt with stronger return spring. It also needs to be used on Parlament posthaste before they implant tracking chips in all subjects.

By the way, does any nation, faction, use the KAC556, or paramilitary model Mini14?

blades67 · March 31, 2000, 01:55 AM

I think the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office uses them.

------------------
Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat!

I hunt, therefore I am.

Mike H · March 31, 2000, 04:32 PM

Excellent update on the SA80 308.

I've also taken a look at the Sig 550 family, very very impressive, especially the mid-size Sig 551-2 adapted for use with the SS109 round and the required 1 in 7 barrel twist rate. I don't recall who chose the Sig, but it looks like a great weapon, bet the Brits wish they had some, or maybe even the old SLR's (FN FAL's) they got rid of. Isn't the French FAMAS similar in design, is that a superior design ??

Mike H

CrociJA · April 2, 2000, 06:52 PM

Have to agree with Mike and some of the others...An H&K 53. A .223 that has the barrel length of a submachinegun. Nasty, nasty, nasty...

Jon

Where's that Class III licence...?

Harlequin · April 4, 2000, 11:03 PM

to answer mike h's question about aming aids, i think the aimpoint X2 is pretty decent for the g3/mp5's and the m4..
(standard aimpoint red-dot with duplex)

the acog for the m4 is not too shabby either
, concidering it's "standard" equipment, but no duplex as far as i know,and the magnification is a bit high, making it a rather poor close combat scope/reticle..
but still, i'd rather have it on my m4 than not

[This message has been edited by Harlequin (edited April 05, 2000).]

Rocco · April 5, 2000, 09:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shin-Tao:
Now if we are crossing over to belt-feds, I would rather quickly snatch up a CETME light MG. It looks like a small MG42 and doesn't foul after a few hundred rounds due to being gas operated. It's 5.56mm like the SAW, but is reputed to be more reliable. [/quote]

Now that would be the AMELI, or Ameli, from the spanish "Ametralladora Ligera". The reason it looks like a mini-MG42 is that it was largely inspired by the former, although there are differences.

As Shin Tao said, it is not gas operated, actually resorting to the classical CETME/H&K roller-lock, delayed blowback system.

The AMELI is shorter than a FN-FAL, weights 7.2 kg with a full 100 rounds plastic box magazine attached; there is also a 200 round mag available, the gun being belt-fed, of course.

Regards,

Rocco

------------------
Si vis Pacem, Para Bellum -- Audaces Fortuna juvat

Spectre · April 5, 2000, 11:37 AM

M65B(RPK)

Svt · April 5, 2000, 03:29 PM

Whoops, misread the original question.

M16A2 very versatile and accurate. As for as being lethal at long distances, it's not very good beyond 150 yards?? Anything on it, it rocks.

[This message has been edited by Svt (edited April 05, 2000).]

**4V50 Gary** · April 6, 2000, 09:47 AM

I think some ACC556 Rugers were sold to the Philippines. The French Gendarme Nationale also have the Ruger Mini14, but it is different from ours.

Based on the earlier 180 series, the rear sight is mounted on the barrel instead of the receiver. The magazine release looks like it was bent back. Also, it features a chequered wood stock. The only marking which suggests that it is Ruger is the rubber recoil pad. You see, the French didn't want any markings which suggested an American made firearm on it. Ruger complied, with the exception of the recoil pad.

Shin-Tao · April 6, 2000, 10:11 AM

The French? That is strange.

**4V50 Gary** · April 8, 2000, 12:19 AM

The markings found on the French Mini14 are as follows:

Mosqueton
A.M.D. - 5.56

Brett Bellmore · April 9, 2000, 07:50 AM

I'm curious; I own a semi-auto pre-ban 9MM Calico carbine; Has anyone here fired the full auto version, or heard anything about it?

I must confess, my purchase of this gun wasn't the result of intensive study; After the '93 ban passed, I went to a big gun show, and just bought the gun which seem to me most likely to offend my Senator. (I'm not normally that impulsive, but I'd just broken up with a girl, and was in an odd frame of mind.)

Truth to tell, what I had really wanted was an H K 93; Bush's ban on their importation after I'd saved up the necessary funds was what origninally propelled me to join the NRA. The Calico has slaughtered a lot of tin cans off my back porch, though; It's a great gun for plinking.

------------------
Sic semper tyrannis!

**4V50 Gary** · April 9, 2000, 08:35 AM

The 9mm Calico is a fun gun and with its bottom ejection port, is entirely ambidextreous. I dislike the flimsy extruded stock or the later fixed plastic stock. It's a natural for a bullpup with a 100 round magazine attached. The weak point of the Calico is the material used for the magazine. It's a bit too brittle and can break if dropped (ouch!). Also, magazine spring tension is crucial to reliability in the Calico (never did figure out how many cranks for a partially loaded magazine).

Another thing nice about the design is that it uses a very simplified delayed blowback (ala HK91/93/MP5) design. Whereas HK went with expensive (and extensive) machining, Calico accomplished the same with less costly methods (part of the bolt may have been machined, but a lot of its wasn't).

If you haven't gotten the magazine loader for the Calico, get one. With practice, you can load a 50 round magazine in less than 15 seconds.

Years ago I visited the factory in Bakersfield and spoke with two of the designers. The factory was actually only an assembly plant and the production of parts was contracted out. They had about a dozen drill presses with drill jigs bolted down. The receiver would be placed in the jig and drilled. The final product was sent outside for anodizing.

Headspacing on the carbine and pistol are slightly different. It's a little longer on the carbine so as to slow down the unlocking time. With the longer barrel, the pressure is higher (or stays higher longer) and to slow down unlocking, they allow the rollers to protrude out further.

Brett Bellmore · April 10, 2000, 02:27 PM

Gary: What you say about the magazine being brittle raises a question in my mind; I know that for legal purposes the receiver is the gun; But what part of a magazine is the magazine? (A silly question in the case of some magazines, I suppose, but anyone who has seen a Calico magazine understands that there are a LOT of parts there!) I do a fair amount of machine work, and replacing the brittle plastic outer case with aluminum or even stainless would be... interesting... But scarcely impossible.

------------------
Sic semper tyrannis!

Jaeger · April 11, 2000, 12:49 AM

I love my AR/M16s but the AK family of rifles wins hands down, IMHO.

**4V50 Gary** · April 11, 2000, 10:00 AM

Brett: The magazine on the Calico is that huge octagon block which is affixed atop of the receiver. It includes the rear sight and the crank on the back to tension the magazine spring.

The magazine assembly consists of two plastic shells (with integral guide ribs). In the center is the spring assembly which pushes the cartridges along the guide ribs. The shells are held together by a strip of spring steel on the bottom and a plastic strip which also has the rear sight.

While it shells can be machined out of aluminum, it would be far easier to cast it. Alternatively, if jigs could be made such that the integral ribs are properly spaced, they could be welded on. Casting seems to be the more feasible and easiest approach.

Hope this helps.

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March 29, 2000, 05:23 AM	#26
point308 Member Join Date: November 1, 1999 Posts: 37	A Crumpet is kinda like a thick pancake. Made with Wheat flour, water, sugar, Salt, Acid (Glucono Delta-Lactone), yeast, perservative (Potassium sorbate), stabiliser (hydroxypropylmethylcellulose). Served lightly grilled or toasted, with butter or jam. Just having one now, with my tea. The SA80 is a difficult weapon to clean, there are two retaining pins in the bolt carrier that are easy to lose. Other problems include a mainspring which is not powerful enough to strip the live round from the top of a full magazine, lots of small parts to lose, the SUSAT sight steams up, iron sights that fall off, sensitive to dirt, heavy trigger pull etc etc. The Design Authority for SA80, formerly Royal Ordnance but now Heckler and Koch UK (Ltd.), was tasked in 1996 to investigate the reliability of the SA80 weapon system. Heckler and Koch reported in 1998 that there might be underlying problems with the reliability of the system and presented their proposals for modifications. A contract was placed in mid-1998 with Heckler and Koch for the modification of 200 weapons to be used for trials to determine the effectiveness of these modifications. Deliveries of these modified weapons were made in January 1999. The MOD conducted user trials in hot and cold climatic conditions with a range of NATO ammunition types. The trials were completed in July 1999 and the formal Design Authority report was delivered to the MOD in late December 1999. The trials confirmed that, after modification, there were significant improvements in the reliability of both the SA80 rifle and Light Support Weapon. Urgent work is in hand to assess the wider implications of the Design Authority report, including the cost, and a decision on any modification programme is expected by the end of March 2000. The SA80 weapon system remains suspended from the NATO Nominated Weapons List, the list of weapons for use in the testing of NATO approved ammunition types. Point308. [This message has been edited by point308 (edited March 29, 2000).]

March 30, 2000, 12:42 PM	#27
Shin-Tao Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 1,528	Sounds like SA80 needs slightly lighter bolt with stronger return spring. It also needs to be used on Parlament posthaste before they implant tracking chips in all subjects. By the way, does any nation, faction, use the KAC556, or paramilitary model Mini14?

March 31, 2000, 01:55 AM	#28
blades67 Senior Member Join Date: April 22, 1999 Location: Chandler, Arizona, USA Posts: 6,014	I think the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office uses them. ------------------ Guns cause crime like spoons cause Rosie O'Donnell to be fat! I hunt, therefore I am.

March 31, 2000, 04:32 PM	#29
Mike H Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 1999 Posts: 1,159	Excellent update on the SA80 308. I've also taken a look at the Sig 550 family, very very impressive, especially the mid-size Sig 551-2 adapted for use with the SS109 round and the required 1 in 7 barrel twist rate. I don't recall who chose the Sig, but it looks like a great weapon, bet the Brits wish they had some, or maybe even the old SLR's (FN FAL's) they got rid of. Isn't the French FAMAS similar in design, is that a superior design ?? Mike H

April 2, 2000, 06:52 PM	#30
CrociJA Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 1999 Location: Alachua, FL., USA Posts: 236	Have to agree with Mike and some of the others...An H&K 53. A .223 that has the barrel length of a submachinegun. Nasty, nasty, nasty... Jon Where's that Class III licence...?

April 4, 2000, 11:03 PM	#31
Harlequin Junior Member Join Date: December 26, 1999 Location: Drøbak, Norway Posts: 13	to answer mike h's question about aming aids, i think the aimpoint X2 is pretty decent for the g3/mp5's and the m4.. (standard aimpoint red-dot with duplex) the acog for the m4 is not too shabby either , concidering it's "standard" equipment, but no duplex as far as i know,and the magnification is a bit high, making it a rather poor close combat scope/reticle.. but still, i'd rather have it on my m4 than not [This message has been edited by Harlequin (edited April 05, 2000).]

April 5, 2000, 09:30 AM	#32
Rocco Member Join Date: December 3, 1998 Location: South of the border. Posts: 31	<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shin-Tao: Now if we are crossing over to belt-feds, I would rather quickly snatch up a CETME light MG. It looks like a small MG42 and doesn't foul after a few hundred rounds due to being gas operated. It's 5.56mm like the SAW, but is reputed to be more reliable. [/quote] Now that would be the AMELI, or Ameli, from the spanish "Ametralladora Ligera". The reason it looks like a mini-MG42 is that it was largely inspired by the former, although there are differences. As Shin Tao said, it is not gas operated, actually resorting to the classical CETME/H&K roller-lock, delayed blowback system. The AMELI is shorter than a FN-FAL, weights 7.2 kg with a full 100 rounds plastic box magazine attached; there is also a 200 round mag available, the gun being belt-fed, of course. Regards, Rocco ------------------ *Si vis Pacem, Para Bellum -- Audaces Fortuna juvat*

April 5, 2000, 11:37 AM	#33
Spectre Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 23, 1998 Location: ATL Posts: 3,277	M65B(RPK)

April 5, 2000, 03:29 PM	#34
Svt Junior member Join Date: January 23, 2000 Posts: 467	Whoops, misread the original question. M16A2 very versatile and accurate. As for as being lethal at long distances, it's not very good beyond 150 yards?? Anything on it, it rocks. [This message has been edited by Svt (edited April 05, 2000).]

April 6, 2000, 09:47 AM	#35
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	I think some ACC556 Rugers were sold to the Philippines. The French Gendarme Nationale also have the Ruger Mini14, but it is different from ours. Based on the earlier 180 series, the rear sight is mounted on the barrel instead of the receiver. The magazine release looks like it was bent back. Also, it features a chequered wood stock. The only marking which suggests that it is Ruger is the rubber recoil pad. You see, the French didn't want any markings which suggested an American made firearm on it. Ruger complied, with the exception of the recoil pad.

April 6, 2000, 10:11 AM	#36
Shin-Tao Senior Member Join Date: January 27, 2000 Posts: 1,528	The French? That is strange.

April 8, 2000, 12:19 AM	#37
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	The markings found on the French Mini14 are as follows: Mosqueton A.M.D. - 5.56

April 9, 2000, 07:50 AM	#38
Brett Bellmore Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 1999 Location: Capac, MI, USA Posts: 1,927	I'm curious; I own a semi-auto pre-ban 9MM Calico carbine; Has anyone here fired the full auto version, or heard anything about it? I must confess, my purchase of this gun wasn't the result of intensive study; After the '93 ban passed, I went to a big gun show, and just bought the gun which seem to me most likely to offend my Senator. (I'm not normally that impulsive, but I'd just broken up with a girl, and was in an odd frame of mind.) Truth to tell, what I had really wanted was an H K 93; Bush's ban on their importation after I'd saved up the necessary funds was what origninally propelled me to join the NRA. The Calico has slaughtered a lot of tin cans off my back porch, though; It's a great gun for plinking. ------------------ Sic semper tyrannis!

April 9, 2000, 08:35 AM	#39
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	The 9mm Calico is a fun gun and with its bottom ejection port, is entirely ambidextreous. I dislike the flimsy extruded stock or the later fixed plastic stock. It's a natural for a bullpup with a 100 round magazine attached. The weak point of the Calico is the material used for the magazine. It's a bit too brittle and can break if dropped (ouch!). Also, magazine spring tension is crucial to reliability in the Calico (never did figure out how many cranks for a partially loaded magazine). Another thing nice about the design is that it uses a very simplified delayed blowback (ala HK91/93/MP5) design. Whereas HK went with expensive (and extensive) machining, Calico accomplished the same with less costly methods (part of the bolt may have been machined, but a lot of its wasn't). If you haven't gotten the magazine loader for the Calico, get one. With practice, you can load a 50 round magazine in less than 15 seconds. Years ago I visited the factory in Bakersfield and spoke with two of the designers. The factory was actually only an assembly plant and the production of parts was contracted out. They had about a dozen drill presses with drill jigs bolted down. The receiver would be placed in the jig and drilled. The final product was sent outside for anodizing. Headspacing on the carbine and pistol are slightly different. It's a little longer on the carbine so as to slow down the unlocking time. With the longer barrel, the pressure is higher (or stays higher longer) and to slow down unlocking, they allow the rollers to protrude out further.

April 10, 2000, 02:27 PM	#40
Brett Bellmore Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 1999 Location: Capac, MI, USA Posts: 1,927	Gary: What you say about the magazine being brittle raises a question in my mind; I know that for legal purposes the receiver is the gun; But what part of a magazine is the magazine? (A silly question in the case of some magazines, I suppose, but anyone who has seen a Calico magazine understands that there are a LOT of parts there!) I do a fair amount of machine work, and replacing the brittle plastic outer case with aluminum or even stainless would be... interesting... But scarcely impossible. ------------------ Sic semper tyrannis!

April 11, 2000, 12:49 AM	#41
Jaeger Senior Member Join Date: February 15, 1999 Location: PA Posts: 365	I love my AR/M16s but the AK family of rifles wins hands down, IMHO.

April 11, 2000, 10:00 AM	#42
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,829	Brett: The magazine on the Calico is that huge octagon block which is affixed atop of the receiver. It includes the rear sight and the crank on the back to tension the magazine spring. The magazine assembly consists of two plastic shells (with integral guide ribs). In the center is the spring assembly which pushes the cartridges along the guide ribs. The shells are held together by a strip of spring steel on the bottom and a plastic strip which also has the rear sight. While it shells can be machined out of aluminum, it would be far easier to cast it. Alternatively, if jigs could be made such that the integral ribs are properly spaced, they could be welded on. Casting seems to be the more feasible and easiest approach. Hope this helps.