Solvent/Lube Throwdown

Daekar · September 1, 2011, 02:14 PM

OK, the question is: You are allowed to have a single cleaner/lube for all of your guns. For the sake of argument, this means it must be used on a 1911, an AR, an AK, an LCP, a Ruger Vaquero, and a K98k Mauser. Which do you pick of these three: Ballistol, Hoppes No9, or ATF? Why?

GURU1911 · September 1, 2011, 02:55 PM

That is an easy question to answer: "break-free clp"

guru1911

myshoulderissore · September 1, 2011, 04:40 PM

ATF

Oh, you also asked why... My bad.

Why, because it works great, it is cheap, has a ton of research backing it under stressful conditions, and it works awesome.

Carne Frio · September 2, 2011, 09:52 AM

Breakfree CLP and any ATF would work. Gunzilla is also a CLP.

PawPaw · September 2, 2011, 12:47 PM

ATF. When's the last time you had to change the oil in your automatic transmission? Most of it lasts for over 100K miles in a very hostile working environment. ATF has magnificent boundary lube properties and it's inexpensive.

drail · September 15, 2011, 04:18 PM

For long term storage Breakfree Collector. For "working" guns - Breakfree CLP. CLP is all you really need. It really is as good as they claim. For just a GOOD cheap lube - ATF. I don't feel that ATF has as good rust preventative qualities as CLP or Collector though but it is a very good lubricating
oil and dissolves carbon pretty well. And ATF in a transmission does need to be changed (along with the filter) if you drive as much as I do. When it turns from red to dirty brown it's time.

B. Lahey · September 15, 2011, 04:39 PM

CLP.

I have used it on all the guns listed in the OP except the vaquero, but lots of other revolvers. Great stuff.

Silent Bob · September 16, 2011, 07:32 AM

I would prefer G96 Gun Treatment as my only gun cleaning/lubricating fluid, but could definitely get by with just Breakfree CLP. Breakfree is a better lube but the G96 suffices and definitely smells better. I think G96 cleans better then CLP and is just as good as a preservative.

Slamfire · September 16, 2011, 08:43 AM

CLP is tested for its ability to remove powder residue and for corrosion resistance. It is being used world wide by our Soldiers to clean and lubricate their M16's.

You should be able to find the spec on DoDiss.

So I know it works as a powder solvent, it is not a lead or copper remover, but so what, use your bristle brush, and I know it works as a lubricant.

No lubricating oil is good for any long term corrosion resistance, but if you are talking a couple of weeks with heavy humidity, CLP will do.

I hate the smell of ATF. It is first and foremost a hydraulic fluid, I don't know how good a lubricant it is, but I do know that when I change my transmission fluid, it takes days to get the smell out of my hair. It is also a skin irritant.

I have never learned the reason why transmission pans don't come from the factory with drain plugs.

C0untZer0 · September 16, 2011, 08:51 AM

If you're only giving me a choice of those 3 - I'll take ATF, because I know that a lot of quality science went into it's creation and I don't know what's in Hopps or Ballistol - my opinion is that those companies have merely mixed stuff up and it's 90% marketing - 10% actual research / science.

I don't think using a single product for both cleaning and lubricating is a good idea, they are 2 different applications that call for different substances. But if I only had one - I'd use Breakfree CLP.

I will post here once I've gone and gathered all of the germane inforamation that's already been posted on the 8 other lube threads we have going...

Te Anau · September 16, 2011, 03:22 PM

ATF all the way

Mike40-11 · September 25, 2011, 05:12 PM

Well, ATF but with a caveat. Add kerosene, acetone and naptha. Ed's Red!. I love it. Used to be exclusively Hoppe's #9 but I find Ed's far superior. Though I still prefer the smell of Hoppe's. Too many years of gun memories.

C0untZer0 · September 25, 2011, 05:53 PM

I started cleaning with just ATF and it gets everything clean, so I'm not sure what I would be gaining by adding the kerosene, naptha and acetone.

B. Lahey · September 25, 2011, 06:02 PM

I don't understand why hoppe's #9 is even mentioned in this thread. It is a solvent, not a lubricant. The stuff hoppe's sells as a lube is just mineral oil, if that's good enough for you, you can buy it at the drug store a lot cheaper.

#9 is a good solvent with an interesting smell, but that's neither here nor there...

jmortimer · September 25, 2011, 09:11 PM

Ballistol - the original CLP and Eezox for rust.

Mike40-11 · September 26, 2011, 04:43 AM

The acetone, naptha, kerosene, ATF mixture is Ed's Red. It more or less duplicates the old GI bore cleaner. Very effective.

FTG-05 · September 26, 2011, 09:24 AM

My version of Ed's Red:

50/50 mix of synthetic ATF (Amsoil) and Kroil. Simple, cheap and effective.

For lube, I use the last remaining Break Free I have mixed with Mobil 1 synthetic 10W-30.

NWPilgrim · September 28, 2011, 03:58 AM

Just mixed up my first batch of Ed's Red cleaner and lubricant today. Pretty neat stuff. For the cost of a couple of 4 ounce bottles of premium gun oil, I have about a gallon of Ed's.

I left out the acetone in the cleaner and am waiting for the lanolin to arrive, so for now the cleaner is equal parts ATF, mineral spirits and kerosene. Seems to work really well. It easily cleaned off the long baked on roofing asphalt blotched all over one of my hammers.

Tomorrow I try it on my new 20" Palmetto State Armory FN upper for a new AR15.

The Ed's lubricant is just ATF and Kerosene. Very thin but it leaves a film. Also cleans pretty good in its own right. Not sure what mineral spirits cleans that kerosene doesn't, but I am following the formula. Ed said that it is an "Ed's Red friendly" lubricant.

Still leaves a grease. Can't just clean and oil. Slides and other parts need grease to hang in there and not slip away.

I'm also getting some oil and grease recommended by Grant Cunningham, pistol smith. The oil is Lubriplate FMO-350-AW (food grade machinery oil). The grease is Lubriplate SFL-0. I should have them in a week and will see how they work as well.

Basically, if limited to one cleaner lubricant I would go with the ATF+Kerosene formula. In the field you may need one do all lube. But back at the bench it makes sense to use separate, specific products or formulas for each job: clean, lubricate, grease.

Oh yeah, and I use Shooter's Choice for copper fouling removal, and a Kleen Bore Lead Away cloth for cleaning hard fired carbon from revolver cylinder faces.

C0untZer0 · September 30, 2011, 12:21 PM

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460140

C0untZer0 · September 30, 2011, 12:26 PM

I also found that SAE 50 motor oil does a better job of staying put than I would have thought.

It really doesn't migrate as much as I expected.

I put a light coat on the recoil assembly of my Glock, expecting that it would leak out the bottom, but when I looked at it a few days later, the 50 hadn't come off the guide rod or spring at all.

NWPilgrim · September 30, 2011, 01:18 PM

Thanks for the picture of SLF-0 in action, Count! I have seen so many references to "Lubriplate" and people seem to think it is all one product. Lubriplate is the BRAND, not the product name, and they make hundreds or thousands of various oils and greases all with the Lubriplate brand name. I think the most common is the cheaper Lithium based grease that does oxidize more easily than the aluminum and calcium based greases (at least as explained by Cunningham).

Take it easy on that pistol though.

I would use about 1/100 what you got on there. May function fine but don't get near a shedding cat. If attacked y a cougar your Glock could jam up with The Mother Of All Furballs.

C0untZer0 · September 30, 2011, 01:51 PM

I've been totally globbing grease on my Glocks.

I guess I kinda wanted to see what they would do. I had so much DP Litium packing grease on one of em that grease splattered on my firing hand on the first shot. They never failed. I also tried to get them as dry as possible, not using degreaser but just wiping off all the oil with a cotton cloth, and they fire just fine when I fire them dry too.

C0untZer0 · September 30, 2011, 01:55 PM

The other thing that I've been doing because of what I've read on this forum...

I've been taking canuba car wax and waxing the slide.

I think it puts a protective film on the slide that protects against rust, and it gives me better grip. The slide isn't as slippery as if I had oiled it and wiped it down.

Daekar · October 2, 2011, 11:41 PM

CZ - I have wondered about waxing myself! I actually have some wax, can't remember the name, which is billed as good for wood and metal. I tried it on wood and it seemed a run-of-the-mill wood wax, but I didn't have the guts to try it on metal... it might be a pain to get off if it DIDN'T do the job. If you continue to use wax, please report your results! More wisdom never hurt anybody, and it just might help!

insomni · October 3, 2011, 01:22 PM

That Lubriplate stuff looks like TW25b, graphite cream lube. Works fantastically in a dusty desert environment!

If humidity is a factor, I still prefer good ol BreakFree CLP because it helps fight the rust

September 1, 2011, 02:14 PM	#1
Daekar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 458	Solvent/Lube Throwdown OK, the question is: You are allowed to have a single cleaner/lube for all of your guns. For the sake of argument, this means it must be used on a 1911, an AR, an AK, an LCP, a Ruger Vaquero, and a K98k Mauser. Which do you pick of these three: Ballistol, Hoppes No9, or ATF? Why?

September 1, 2011, 02:55 PM	#2
GURU1911 Senior Member Join Date: December 22, 2010 Location: SEALY, THE REPUBLIC OF TEXAS Posts: 501	One product for every cleaning problem That is an easy question to answer: "break-free clp" guru1911 __________________ NRA LIFE MEMBER (1984) & PRESIDENT: S.W. LA. R&P CLUB, LAKE CHARLES, LOUISIANA (1994-1999) METALLIC CARTRIDGE RELOADER (1977) & GENTILE CHRISTIAN ZIONIST INFIDEL !!! "THERE AIN'T TOO MANY THINGS THAT YOU CAN'T FIX, WITH $500 DOLLARS OR A .30-06"

September 1, 2011, 04:40 PM	#3
myshoulderissore Senior Member Join Date: September 12, 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 447	ATF Oh, you also asked why... My bad. Why, because it works great, it is cheap, has a ton of research backing it under stressful conditions, and it works awesome. Last edited by myshoulderissore; September 2, 2011 at 10:40 AM.

September 2, 2011, 12:47 PM	#5
PawPaw Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Location: Central Louisiana Posts: 3,137	ATF. When's the last time you had to change the oil in your automatic transmission? Most of it lasts for over 100K miles in a very hostile working environment. ATF has magnificent boundary lube properties and it's inexpensive. __________________ Dennis Dezendorf http://pawpawshouse.blogspot.com

September 15, 2011, 04:39 PM	#7
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	CLP. I have used it on all the guns listed in the OP except the vaquero, but lots of other revolvers. Great stuff. __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

September 2, 2011, 09:52 AM	#4
Carne Frio Senior Member Join Date: August 28, 2008 Location: Near Fairbanks Alaska Posts: 829	Breakfree CLP and any ATF would work. Gunzilla is also a CLP.

September 15, 2011, 04:18 PM	#6
drail Junior member Join Date: February 2, 2008 Posts: 3,150	For long term storage Breakfree Collector. For "working" guns - Breakfree CLP. CLP is all you really need. It really is as good as they claim. For just a GOOD cheap lube - ATF. I don't feel that ATF has as good rust preventative qualities as CLP or Collector though but it is a very good lubricating oil and dissolves carbon pretty well. And ATF in a transmission does need to be changed (along with the filter) if you drive as much as I do. When it turns from red to dirty brown it's time.

September 16, 2011, 07:32 AM	#8
Silent Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2005 Posts: 288	I would prefer G96 Gun Treatment as my only gun cleaning/lubricating fluid, but could definitely get by with just Breakfree CLP. Breakfree is a better lube but the G96 suffices and definitely smells better. I think G96 cleans better then CLP and is just as good as a preservative.

September 16, 2011, 08:43 AM	#9
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	CLP is tested for its ability to remove powder residue and for corrosion resistance. It is being used world wide by our Soldiers to clean and lubricate their M16's. You should be able to find the spec on DoDiss. So I know it works as a powder solvent, it is not a lead or copper remover, but so what, use your bristle brush, and I know it works as a lubricant. No lubricating oil is good for any long term corrosion resistance, but if you are talking a couple of weeks with heavy humidity, CLP will do. I hate the smell of ATF. It is first and foremost a hydraulic fluid, I don't know how good a lubricant it is, but I do know that when I change my transmission fluid, it takes days to get the smell out of my hair. It is also a skin irritant. I have never learned the reason why transmission pans don't come from the factory with drain plugs. __________________ If I'm not shooting, I'm reloading.

September 16, 2011, 08:51 AM	#10
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	Woo hoo ! another lubrication thread! If you're only giving me a choice of those 3 - I'll take ATF, because I know that a lot of quality science went into it's creation and I don't know what's in Hopps or Ballistol - my opinion is that those companies have merely mixed stuff up and it's 90% marketing - 10% actual research / science. I don't think using a single product for both cleaning and lubricating is a good idea, they are 2 different applications that call for different substances. But if I only had one - I'd use Breakfree CLP. I will post here once I've gone and gathered all of the germane inforamation that's already been posted on the 8 other lube threads we have going... Last edited by C0untZer0; September 16, 2011 at 08:57 AM.

September 16, 2011, 03:22 PM	#11
Te Anau Senior Member Join Date: June 17, 2004 Location: Somewhere south of the No Posts: 3,824	ATF all the way __________________ "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it." --American author Mark Twain (1835-1910)

September 25, 2011, 05:12 PM	#12
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 841	Well, ATF but with a caveat. Add kerosene, acetone and naptha. Ed's Red!. I love it. Used to be exclusively Hoppe's #9 but I find Ed's far superior. Though I still prefer the smell of Hoppe's. Too many years of gun memories.

September 25, 2011, 05:53 PM	#13
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I started cleaning with just ATF and it gets everything clean, so I'm not sure what I would be gaining by adding the kerosene, naptha and acetone.

September 25, 2011, 06:02 PM	#14
B. Lahey Senior Member Join Date: March 17, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 2,857	I don't understand why hoppe's #9 is even mentioned in this thread. It is a solvent, not a lubricant. The stuff hoppe's sells as a lube is just mineral oil, if that's good enough for you, you can buy it at the drug store a lot cheaper. #9 is a good solvent with an interesting smell, but that's neither here nor there... __________________ "A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards." -George Orwell

September 25, 2011, 09:11 PM	#15
jmortimer Junior member Join Date: January 24, 2010 Location: South West Riverside County California Posts: 2,763	Ballistol - the original CLP and Eezox for rust.

September 26, 2011, 04:43 AM	#16
Mike40-11 Senior Member Join Date: January 8, 2005 Location: Missouri Posts: 841	The acetone, naptha, kerosene, ATF mixture is Ed's Red. It more or less duplicates the old GI bore cleaner. Very effective.

September 26, 2011, 09:24 AM	#17
FTG-05 Senior Member Join Date: March 18, 1999 Location: TN Posts: 301	My version of Ed's Red: 50/50 mix of synthetic ATF (Amsoil) and Kroil. Simple, cheap and effective. For lube, I use the last remaining Break Free I have mixed with Mobil 1 synthetic 10W-30.

September 28, 2011, 03:58 AM	#18
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Just mixed up my first batch of Ed's Red cleaner and lubricant today. Pretty neat stuff. For the cost of a couple of 4 ounce bottles of premium gun oil, I have about a gallon of Ed's. I left out the acetone in the cleaner and am waiting for the lanolin to arrive, so for now the cleaner is equal parts ATF, mineral spirits and kerosene. Seems to work really well. It easily cleaned off the long baked on roofing asphalt blotched all over one of my hammers. Tomorrow I try it on my new 20" Palmetto State Armory FN upper for a new AR15. The Ed's lubricant is just ATF and Kerosene. Very thin but it leaves a film. Also cleans pretty good in its own right. Not sure what mineral spirits cleans that kerosene doesn't, but I am following the formula. Ed said that it is an "Ed's Red friendly" lubricant. Still leaves a grease. Can't just clean and oil. Slides and other parts need grease to hang in there and not slip away. I'm also getting some oil and grease recommended by Grant Cunningham, pistol smith. The oil is Lubriplate FMO-350-AW (food grade machinery oil). The grease is Lubriplate SFL-0. I should have them in a week and will see how they work as well. Basically, if limited to one cleaner lubricant I would go with the ATF+Kerosene formula. In the field you may need one do all lube. But back at the bench it makes sense to use separate, specific products or formulas for each job: clean, lubricate, grease. Oh yeah, and I use Shooter's Choice for copper fouling removal, and a Kleen Bore Lead Away cloth for cleaning hard fired carbon from revolver cylinder faces. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

September 30, 2011, 12:21 PM	#19
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	My Lubriplate photos : ) http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=460140

September 30, 2011, 12:26 PM	#20
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I also found that SAE 50 motor oil does a better job of staying put than I would have thought. It really doesn't migrate as much as I expected. I put a light coat on the recoil assembly of my Glock, expecting that it would leak out the bottom, but when I looked at it a few days later, the 50 hadn't come off the guide rod or spring at all.

September 30, 2011, 01:18 PM	#21
NWPilgrim Senior Member Join Date: September 29, 2008 Location: Oregon Posts: 2,346	Thanks for the picture of SLF-0 in action, Count! I have seen so many references to "Lubriplate" and people seem to think it is all one product. Lubriplate is the BRAND, not the product name, and they make hundreds or thousands of various oils and greases all with the Lubriplate brand name. I think the most common is the cheaper Lithium based grease that does oxidize more easily than the aluminum and calcium based greases (at least as explained by Cunningham). Take it easy on that pistol though. I would use about 1/100 what you got on there. May function fine but don't get near a shedding cat. If attacked y a cougar your Glock could jam up with The Mother Of All Furballs. __________________ "The ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone. ... The advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation ... forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition." - James Madison

September 30, 2011, 01:51 PM	#22
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	I've been totally globbing grease on my Glocks. I guess I kinda wanted to see what they would do. I had so much DP Litium packing grease on one of em that grease splattered on my firing hand on the first shot. They never failed. I also tried to get them as dry as possible, not using degreaser but just wiping off all the oil with a cotton cloth, and they fire just fine when I fire them dry too.

September 30, 2011, 01:55 PM	#23
C0untZer0 Junior member Join Date: April 21, 2011 Location: Illinois Posts: 4,555	The other thing that I've been doing because of what I've read on this forum... I've been taking canuba car wax and waxing the slide. I think it puts a protective film on the slide that protects against rust, and it gives me better grip. The slide isn't as slippery as if I had oiled it and wiped it down.

October 2, 2011, 11:41 PM	#24
Daekar Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 2011 Posts: 458	CZ - I have wondered about waxing myself! I actually have some wax, can't remember the name, which is billed as good for wood and metal. I tried it on wood and it seemed a run-of-the-mill wood wax, but I didn't have the guts to try it on metal... it might be a pain to get off if it DIDN'T do the job. If you continue to use wax, please report your results! More wisdom never hurt anybody, and it just might help!

October 3, 2011, 01:22 PM	#25
insomni Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2011 Posts: 342	That Lubriplate stuff looks like TW25b, graphite cream lube. Works fantastically in a dusty desert environment! If humidity is a factor, I still prefer good ol BreakFree CLP because it helps fight the rust

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