Colt 1911 background and value?

PJ234 · May 1, 2001, 04:12 PM

I have acquired an old Colt 1911 from a friend, and I wanted to find out as much as I can about the gun's history and also it's value if possible.

The serial # is No. 466XXX, and is marked MODEL OF 1911 U.S. ARMY on the right side of the slide.

The left side is marked with the Colt's verbage, Patent dates, and the prancing horse. The frame is marked UNITED STATES PROPERTY in front of the slide release. The frame also has a small mark (can't make it out) with S17 below it, just above the magazine release.

It appears to be in orginal condition, good but well used. I am not sure how to rate the finish %-wise.

I appreciate any help you can provide!

PJ

James K · May 1, 2001, 10:26 PM

The pistol sounds original, at least in major parts. The S17 is a government inspector's mark, but the person or office to whom it was assigned is unknown. The little mark above it is an eagle head. The original barrel should have a combined "HP" visible on the top, and the original magazine would have been two tone, without the lanyard loop.

WWI Model 1911's are desirable in good condition. Try to determine if the finish is original and, if so, how much is left. Pistols at that period usually were blued over a fairly rough finish. Obviously, a shiny black tank blue, Parkerizing, or plating would not be original.

Jim

Harley Nolden · May 2, 2001, 05:18 AM

PJ234:
Here's just a brief history of the gun. There are many good books published on this one.

Developed by John browning in 1905 and adopted by the U.S. Ordnance Dept. with the Colt Browning automatic pistol, it has also been made the official military handgun caliber by
several other governments, notably Argentina, Mexico and Norway. The 45 Automatic was the most powerful military handgun cartridge in use at that time. It is also one of the most difficult to master. The colt Government Model auto pistol and the Colt and Smith & Wesson Army model 1917 Model revolver are the principal arms chambered for the 45 ACP in the U.S. Several submachine guns have used it, and about 1943 a number Reising semi-automatic rifles were marketed in this caliber. Imitations of the Colt auto pistol have been made in Argentina, China, Korea, Norway and Spain. It was replaced in 1985 by the Beretta 9mm.

HJN

PJ234 · May 2, 2001, 01:40 PM

Jim,

The finish certainly looks original to me, but looks more brownish/black/grey than what a modern blued firearm looks. The HP mark is there on top of the barrel, but the bottom half of the HP is hard to see or I suppose worn away, although there are not obvious wear marks in that one area.

I really don't know how to estimate percentage of finish remaining. There is a fair amount of holster wear on edges and high spots. The dust cover has a fair amount of bare metal showing, as does the left side of the slide. There is also an arc-shaped scratch, apparently from the slide stop being dragged across the slide. If I had to take a conservative guess on the left side of the slide, I would say 50-60% of finish remains.

The right side of the slide is better, I would again conservatively guess 60-80%. I would call the frame itself a little better than this.

What do you mean by a two-tone magazine? The one I have looks like it was originally blued with most of the finish worn away, and says "Colt", then below, "45 AUTO".

The gun has reddish-brown plastic grips, but I have a set of what are probably the original wood grips with it. These grips are fairly dinged up.

There is a checkered MSH w/ lanyard loop, which I have a feeling is not original.

I also have a leather holster in good condition which says US on the flap, and "US GRATON & KNIGHT CO." on the belt loop.

Any idea of value? Can I shoot and enjoy this gun?

Thanks a lot!

PJ234 · May 2, 2001, 01:43 PM

Harley,

I'm sorry that you typed all that out! I should have been more specific. I know the general history of the 1911, but wanted to know about my specific gun (ie, when made, etc.)

Thanks for your help!

PJ

fal308 · May 3, 2001, 08:08 AM

According to your serial number, your Colt was made in 1918.
As for the two tone mag, the top two thirds or so is a natural grey finish while the lower third or so appears blued.
If the grip panels do not have a diamond shape in the pattern then they may be original. The diamond grips didn't come about until the 1911A1.

45nut · May 5, 2001, 11:30 AM

PJ,

E-mail me and I'll give you some info.

May 1, 2001, 04:12 PM	#1
PJ234 Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2001 Posts: 11	I have acquired an old Colt 1911 from a friend, and I wanted to find out as much as I can about the gun's history and also it's value if possible. The serial # is No. 466XXX, and is marked MODEL OF 1911 U.S. ARMY on the right side of the slide. The left side is marked with the Colt's verbage, Patent dates, and the prancing horse. The frame is marked UNITED STATES PROPERTY in front of the slide release. The frame also has a small mark (can't make it out) with S17 below it, just above the magazine release. It appears to be in orginal condition, good but well used. I am not sure how to rate the finish %-wise. I appreciate any help you can provide! PJ

May 1, 2001, 10:26 PM	#2
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The pistol sounds original, at least in major parts. The S17 is a government inspector's mark, but the person or office to whom it was assigned is unknown. The little mark above it is an eagle head. The original barrel should have a combined "HP" visible on the top, and the original magazine would have been two tone, without the lanyard loop. WWI Model 1911's are desirable in good condition. Try to determine if the finish is original and, if so, how much is left. Pistols at that period usually were blued over a fairly rough finish. Obviously, a shiny black tank blue, Parkerizing, or plating would not be original. Jim

May 2, 2001, 05:18 AM	#3
Harley Nolden Staff In Memoriam Join Date: January 8, 1999 Location: Brunswick,GA USA Posts: 1,884	PJ234: Here's just a brief history of the gun. There are many good books published on this one. Developed by John browning in 1905 and adopted by the U.S. Ordnance Dept. with the Colt Browning automatic pistol, it has also been made the official military handgun caliber by several other governments, notably Argentina, Mexico and Norway. The 45 Automatic was the most powerful military handgun cartridge in use at that time. It is also one of the most difficult to master. The colt Government Model auto pistol and the Colt and Smith & Wesson Army model 1917 Model revolver are the principal arms chambered for the 45 ACP in the U.S. Several submachine guns have used it, and about 1943 a number Reising semi-automatic rifles were marketed in this caliber. Imitations of the Colt auto pistol have been made in Argentina, China, Korea, Norway and Spain. It was replaced in 1985 by the Beretta 9mm. HJN

May 2, 2001, 01:40 PM	#4
PJ234 Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2001 Posts: 11	Jim, The finish certainly looks original to me, but looks more brownish/black/grey than what a modern blued firearm looks. The HP mark is there on top of the barrel, but the bottom half of the HP is hard to see or I suppose worn away, although there are not obvious wear marks in that one area. I really don't know how to estimate percentage of finish remaining. There is a fair amount of holster wear on edges and high spots. The dust cover has a fair amount of bare metal showing, as does the left side of the slide. There is also an arc-shaped scratch, apparently from the slide stop being dragged across the slide. If I had to take a conservative guess on the left side of the slide, I would say 50-60% of finish remains. The right side of the slide is better, I would again conservatively guess 60-80%. I would call the frame itself a little better than this. What do you mean by a two-tone magazine? The one I have looks like it was originally blued with most of the finish worn away, and says "Colt", then below, "45 AUTO". The gun has reddish-brown plastic grips, but I have a set of what are probably the original wood grips with it. These grips are fairly dinged up. There is a checkered MSH w/ lanyard loop, which I have a feeling is not original. I also have a leather holster in good condition which says US on the flap, and "US GRATON & KNIGHT CO." on the belt loop. Any idea of value? Can I shoot and enjoy this gun? Thanks a lot!

May 2, 2001, 01:43 PM	#5
PJ234 Junior Member Join Date: February 8, 2001 Posts: 11	Harley, I'm sorry that you typed all that out! I should have been more specific. I know the general history of the 1911, but wanted to know about my specific gun (ie, when made, etc.) Thanks for your help! PJ

May 3, 2001, 08:08 AM	#6
fal308 Staff Alumnus Join Date: October 12, 1998 Location: Missouri Posts: 1,992	According to your serial number, your Colt was made in 1918. As for the two tone mag, the top two thirds or so is a natural grey finish while the lower third or so appears blued. If the grip panels do not have a diamond shape in the pattern then they may be original. The diamond grips didn't come about until the 1911A1.

May 5, 2001, 11:30 AM	#7
45nut Member Join Date: April 30, 2001 Location: US Posts: 16	PJ, E-mail me and I'll give you some info.