Rifle in JFK's Oval Office?

PT-92 · September 26, 2012, 09:49 PM

I happened to be researching Theodore Roosevelt and his proclivity for the Second Amendment when I came across this photo of a rifle hung on the Oval Office Wall of JFK. Might anyone know the origin of it (make, model brief history of the gun...)? Just curios as I know the Kennedy's were/are notorious antis (perhaps the quintessential definition thereof).

While not a 'Kennedy family' fan so to speak, I do appreciate his Naval Service to our nation as well as his fallen brother Joe who perished in the air war of WWII.

Thanks in advance for any info.

Redhawk5.5+P+ · September 26, 2012, 10:29 PM

Just a guess, the first thing that came to mind is a military single shot breach loader .45 from the late 1800s.

BarryLee · September 26, 2012, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Kennedy also mounted gifts he received from visiting dignitaries, such as a rifle on one wall and a
ceremonial sword on another. He also had framed photos of famous people and meetings and
“regularly changed the photos with newer ones,” says Matteo.

Did a quick search and found the .pdf describing the set preparation for a movie about the Kennedys. It states that the rifle was a gift, but goes into no more detail. If you are really interested you might try to contact the JFK Library or visit their WEB site.

http://cache.reelz.com/assets/conten...rod-design.pdf

Ideal Tool · September 27, 2012, 12:03 AM

Hello, everyone. I zoomed up the magnification..From the shape of action & lever..I believe it is a Spencer carbine. Christopher Spencer gave a live firing demenstration with president Lincoln..and Lincoln fired a few shots himself. Could this be a tribute to that long ago shooting outing?

Redhawk5.5+P+ · September 27, 2012, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Hello, everyone. I zoomed up the magnification..From the shape of action & lever..I believe it is a Spencer carbine.

I can see that after doing a short search. I think below it, it looks to me like a wall thermostat.

steveno · September 27, 2012, 02:00 AM

I believe that JFK was a NRA member

HiBC · September 27, 2012, 05:03 AM

Actually,JFK was an NRA Life member,he supported the Director of Civilian Marksmanship program,and was known to give rifles such as Weatherbys as diplomatic gifts.

I'm not a Kennedy fan,but I'll give credit where it is due.

Its truly sad that the revisionist historians and agenda driven politicians have corrupted this part of JFK into something he was not.

When JFK was in office,YMCA's,public schools,etc had indoor smallbore ranges, the rifles such as Reminton 513T's,and ammo were provided by uncle Sam,and that was when,similar to CMP,you could get an M-1 Carbine for about$20,I think a Garand was what,$60?.

As a 12 year old kid without a dad around,I had access to a 50 ft indoor range,rifles,ammo,a coach,and the NRA smallbore program.JFK was president.This was in Aurora,Ill.Culturally,responsible shooting sports were quite mainstream.

steveno · September 27, 2012, 06:04 AM

we had a rifle range in the basement of the high school. I know they were Remington rifles but I don't remember the model number. I doubt the kids in school there now even know that now

PT-92 · September 27, 2012, 07:12 AM

Thanks for the feedback (I've learned some stuff already!).

-Cheers

**Aguila Blanca** · September 27, 2012, 07:18 AM

Yes, my recollection is that JFK was definitely not anti-gun. I don't know what Robert's views were. Teddy, of course, was a notorious anti-gun person, but that attitude may have developed due to losing two brothers to assassination.

**Mike Irwin** · September 27, 2012, 08:09 AM

"Culturally,responsible shooting sports were quite mainstream."

And yet you still grew up and hang out in back room internet firearms chat forums...

Where did you ever go wrong???

I suspect the thing on the wall under the rifle is actually a plaque detailing what the gun is, and from whom it was presented.

Brian Pfleuger · September 27, 2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiBC

,YMCA's,public schools,etc had indoor smallbore ranges, the rifles such as Reminton 513T's,and ammo were provided by uncle Sam,and that was when,similar to CMP,you could get an M-1 Carbine for about$20,I think a Garand was what,$60?.

As a 12 year old kid without a dad around,I had access to a 50 ft indoor range,rifles,ammo,a coach,and the NRA smallbore program.JFK was president.This was in Aurora,Ill.Culturally,responsible shooting sports were quite mainstream.

See, now I'm going to be depressed all day. How far we have fallen.

In regards to the rifle, without zooming in or whatnot on the picture, that "thing" under it looks like it's holding it up, to me.... it's a shelf.

BlueTrain · September 27, 2012, 08:36 AM

Oh, yeah, those were the good old days. My father's take home pay was about $75 a week for six days work, plus evenings. No school in my home town had a range, either.

**Mike Irwin** · September 27, 2012, 10:09 AM

Supposedly when it was built my high school in Pennsylvania had a rifle range in the basement, but I never bothered to confim it when I was there.

Brian Pfleuger · September 27, 2012, 10:11 AM

My school had an active (though mis-managed) rifle team into the mid-90s at least. I've often wondered what happened to those rifles.

aarondhgraham · September 27, 2012, 10:34 AM

Moore High School (Moore, OK) was one of the first schools in Oklahoma (1967-68) to have a sunken football field.

The west berm (end zone) had a gap in the seating,,,
That's where our rifle team practiced.

You (I) had to supply your own single-shot or bolt action rifle and ammo,,,
The retired Colonel who ran the Junior ROTC program coached us.

As far as I know none of our team grew up to be a mass murderer.

Aarond

.

roashooter · September 27, 2012, 10:51 AM

sorry to add to the topic drift, but the comments of schools having shooting programs brought back memories. as a student in a small, west texas, farm community, we did not have a shooting program. but you could count on most all the pickup trucks in the school lot, having a shotgun/rifle rack in the rear window, with a shotgun at least, and many with a rifle as well, displayed.
it was common, was not considered a risk to the safety of the students, and I never heard that one was ever stolen......this was 1964-1969.....my have times changed

Gary L. Griffiths · September 27, 2012, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Christopher Spencer gave a live firing demenstration with president Lincoln..and Lincoln fired a few shots himself. Could this be a tribute to that long ago shooting outing?

Tribute? It could well be the Spencer that Lincoln shot!

youngunz4life · September 27, 2012, 11:21 AM

I might contact the library. I would like to know the significance of this firearm if any. I am guessing it was a gift..but to who, when, and from whom?

RickB · September 27, 2012, 11:32 AM

JFK was apparently a big fan of the AR. His Secret Service detail was occasionally armed with them, and he kept one on his boat.
Since most U.S. Presidents, prior to Jimmy Carter, were not anti-gun if not actually pro-gun, Colt made fancy engraved guns for presentation to them. The one for JFK was not ready yet at the time of his assassination, so the gun was never presented.
I'm sure Carter, Clinton, and Obama all avoided the horror of being presented with an engraved, gold inlaid commemorative from the Colt custom shop.
The anti-gun legacy of the Kennedy family did not start with JFK, but probably with his death.

BarryLee · September 27, 2012, 12:54 PM

I visited the JFK Library WEB site and could not find any information, but did find another photo. The photo is very similar, but in color and allows you to enlarge it.

http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-View...unYyotpyw.aspx

**Mike Irwin** · September 27, 2012, 01:10 PM

Well, it's definitely not a shelf holding that rifle up, as there's an airgap of about an inch, or more, between the dark rectangle underneath the rifle and the butt.

aarondhgraham · September 27, 2012, 01:38 PM

This is the best I can do as far as enlarging with some detail.

The rectangle looks like a display placard,,,

Aarond

.

Glenn E. Meyer · September 27, 2012, 01:49 PM

Macy's in Brooklyn, NY used to sell war surplus rifles. Springfields and Enfields and Mausers real cheap. Now it's a yuppy clothes store and guns in NYC - nah.

**Mike Irwin** · September 27, 2012, 02:22 PM

Boy that certainly looks like a Spencer carbine...

Regarding Macy's...

My former Father in Law was in his Army uniform home on leave and went into NYC. He bought a shotgun at Macy's. They didn't have bags or boxes for it, so he simply walked to the subway, took it to Grand Central, and caught the commuterline to White Plains.

He said the only person who even looked at him funny was the LIRR conductor who wanted to know if it was loaded or not.

That would have been sometime in the early 1950s.

September 26, 2012, 09:49 PM	#1
PT-92 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2007 Location: "Undisclosed Bunker" Posts: 1,464	Rifle in JFK's Oval Office? I happened to be researching Theodore Roosevelt and his proclivity for the Second Amendment when I came across this photo of a rifle hung on the Oval Office Wall of JFK. Might anyone know the origin of it (make, model brief history of the gun...)? Just curios as I know the Kennedy's were/are notorious antis (perhaps the quintessential definition thereof). While not a 'Kennedy family' fan so to speak, I do appreciate his Naval Service to our nation as well as his fallen brother Joe who perished in the air war of WWII. Thanks in advance for any info. __________________ NRA Life Member “A free people ought...to be armed..." ―George Washington

September 27, 2012, 05:03 AM	#7
HiBC Senior Member Join Date: November 13, 2006 Posts: 8,283	Actually,JFK was an NRA Life member,he supported the Director of Civilian Marksmanship program,and was known to give rifles such as Weatherbys as diplomatic gifts. I'm not a Kennedy fan,but I'll give credit where it is due. Its truly sad that the revisionist historians and agenda driven politicians have corrupted this part of JFK into something he was not. When JFK was in office,YMCA's,public schools,etc had indoor smallbore ranges, the rifles such as Reminton 513T's,and ammo were provided by uncle Sam,and that was when,similar to CMP,you could get an M-1 Carbine for about$20,I think a Garand was what,$60?. As a 12 year old kid without a dad around,I had access to a 50 ft indoor range,rifles,ammo,a coach,and the NRA smallbore program.JFK was president.This was in Aurora,Ill.Culturally,responsible shooting sports were quite mainstream. Last edited by HiBC; September 27, 2012 at 05:13 AM.

September 27, 2012, 07:12 AM	#9
PT-92 Senior Member Join Date: March 20, 2007 Location: "Undisclosed Bunker" Posts: 1,464	Thanks for the feedback (I've learned some stuff already!). -Cheers __________________ NRA Life Member “A free people ought...to be armed..." ―George Washington

September 27, 2012, 08:09 AM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	"Culturally,responsible shooting sports were quite mainstream." And yet you still grew up and hang out in back room internet firearms chat forums... Where did you ever go wrong??? I suspect the thing on the wall under the rifle is actually a plaque detailing what the gun is, and from whom it was presented. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 27, 2012, 08:36 AM	#13
BlueTrain Senior Member Join Date: September 26, 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 6,141	Oh, yeah, those were the good old days. My father's take home pay was about $75 a week for six days work, plus evenings. No school in my home town had a range, either. __________________ Shoot low, sheriff. They're riding Shetlands! Underneath the starry flag, civilize 'em with a Krag, and return us to our own beloved homes! Buy War Bonds.

September 26, 2012, 10:29 PM	#2
Redhawk5.5+P+ Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2012 Location: NV Posts: 743	Just a guess, the first thing that came to mind is a military single shot breach loader .45 from the late 1800s.

September 27, 2012, 12:03 AM	#4
Ideal Tool Junior member Join Date: October 6, 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 1,080	Hello, everyone. I zoomed up the magnification..From the shape of action & lever..I believe it is a Spencer carbine. Christopher Spencer gave a live firing demenstration with president Lincoln..and Lincoln fired a few shots himself. Could this be a tribute to that long ago shooting outing?

September 27, 2012, 02:00 AM	#6
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	I believe that JFK was a NRA member

September 27, 2012, 06:04 AM	#8
steveno Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Minden , Nebraska Posts: 1,407	we had a rifle range in the basement of the high school. I know they were Remington rifles but I don't remember the model number. I doubt the kids in school there now even know that now

September 27, 2012, 07:18 AM	#10
Aguila Blanca Staff Join Date: September 25, 2008 Location: CONUS Posts: 18,458	Yes, my recollection is that JFK was definitely not anti-gun. I don't know what Robert's views were. Teddy, of course, was a notorious anti-gun person, but that attitude may have developed due to losing two brothers to assassination.

September 27, 2012, 10:09 AM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Supposedly when it was built my high school in Pennsylvania had a rifle range in the basement, but I never bothered to confim it when I was there. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 27, 2012, 10:11 AM	#15
Brian Pfleuger Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Austin, CO Posts: 19,578	My school had an active (though mis-managed) rifle team into the mid-90s at least. I've often wondered what happened to those rifles. __________________ Nobody plans to screw up their lives... ...they just don't plan not to. -Andy Stanley

September 27, 2012, 10:34 AM	#16
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	My high school had a rifle team,,, Moore High School (Moore, OK) was one of the first schools in Oklahoma (1967-68) to have a sunken football field. The west berm (end zone) had a gap in the seating,,, That's where our rifle team practiced. You (I) had to supply your own single-shot or bolt action rifle and ammo,,, The retired Colonel who ran the Junior ROTC program coached us. As far as I know none of our team grew up to be a mass murderer. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

September 27, 2012, 10:51 AM	#17
roashooter Junior member Join Date: December 24, 2010 Posts: 508	topic drift sorry to add to the topic drift, but the comments of schools having shooting programs brought back memories. as a student in a small, west texas, farm community, we did not have a shooting program. but you could count on most all the pickup trucks in the school lot, having a shotgun/rifle rack in the rear window, with a shotgun at least, and many with a rifle as well, displayed. it was common, was not considered a risk to the safety of the students, and I never heard that one was ever stolen......this was 1964-1969.....my have times changed

September 27, 2012, 11:21 AM	#19
youngunz4life Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 2010 Location: United States of America Posts: 1,877	I might contact the library. I would like to know the significance of this firearm if any. I am guessing it was a gift..but to who, when, and from whom? __________________ "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" -Admiral Farragut @ Battle of Mobile Bay 05AUG1864

September 27, 2012, 11:32 AM	#20
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	JFK was apparently a big fan of the AR. His Secret Service detail was occasionally armed with them, and he kept one on his boat. Since most U.S. Presidents, prior to Jimmy Carter, were not anti-gun if not actually pro-gun, Colt made fancy engraved guns for presentation to them. The one for JFK was not ready yet at the time of his assassination, so the gun was never presented. I'm sure Carter, Clinton, and Obama all avoided the horror of being presented with an engraved, gold inlaid commemorative from the Colt custom shop. The anti-gun legacy of the Kennedy family did not start with JFK, but probably with his death.

September 27, 2012, 12:54 PM	#21
BarryLee Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2010 Location: The ATL (OTP) Posts: 3,946	I visited the JFK Library WEB site and could not find any information, but did find another photo. The photo is very similar, but in color and allows you to enlarge it. http://www.jfklibrary.org/Asset-View...unYyotpyw.aspx __________________ A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. - Milton Friedman

September 27, 2012, 01:10 PM	#22
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Well, it's definitely not a shelf holding that rifle up, as there's an airgap of about an inch, or more, between the dark rectangle underneath the rifle and the butt. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

September 27, 2012, 01:49 PM	#24
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	Macy's in Brooklyn, NY used to sell war surplus rifles. Springfields and Enfields and Mausers real cheap. Now it's a yuppy clothes store and guns in NYC - nah. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

September 27, 2012, 02:22 PM	#25
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,380	Boy that certainly looks like a Spencer carbine... Regarding Macy's... My former Father in Law was in his Army uniform home on leave and went into NYC. He bought a shotgun at Macy's. They didn't have bags or boxes for it, so he simply walked to the subway, took it to Grand Central, and caught the commuterline to White Plains. He said the only person who even looked at him funny was the LIRR conductor who wanted to know if it was loaded or not. That would have been sometime in the early 1950s. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

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