catching a thieving rat in the act

[9mmsnoopy]

is anyone familiar with this product? www.lasershield.net

its a device that you put in your home and connect it to the phone line, has motion sensors that you can place wherever needed, once armed if it detects motion it will sound a 105 decibal alarm and the monitoring service will give you a call to see if everythings ok, if you cant be reached they will call the cops.

seems like something that would be nice to have for whenever nobody is at home.

[Creature]

Derius_T wrote:

I'm sorry, some may find it silly or arrogant or whatever, but no way would I let some gutter trash run me off from my PAID FOR house and property. Something would have to be done. And while I realize that some people may get their panties in a wad at the slightest mention of retaliation, there comes a point where, if the LAW will NOT PROTECT or HELP yu in any way, then sometimes you might just have to help yourself. Is it the moral "high road"? No, but do you wait till it comes to the point where they catch your wife or kids home alone and burn the house down around them, or cut your brake lines, or some other terrible thing? And to say kids can't do that stuff is just assinine.

Put your foot down, one way or the other, and do what you have to do to protect your family and your home. PERIOD.

Your logic is flawed logic...and you obviously know it because you apologize for it right off the bat. It is also apparent that you haven't had to face the same situation that our friend here is experiencing because you are so free and easy to dispense with the "HIGH ROAD" approach and suggest taking the "LOW ROAD" instead. It is precisely because our friend can NOT be there all of the time that this is such a problem. It's easy to suggest doing something illegal when its not you risking prison or bankruptcy.

So, yes, your approach is precisely what you called it: silly and arrogant. And to suggest that our collective panties are in a wad over retaliation is further proof of that. Two wrongs never make a right, my friend. This is a man's property that were are talking about...where a man has his fortune and family wrapped up.

Ibfestus made the argument most clearly: when the terrain is unfavorable, then find better terrain...especially when it's where you intend to lay your head.

[springmom]

Wow. You have been pulled through a knothole backward, and I feel for you.

To answer your question, had I been your neighbor I would have called the police. I would have watched, and if it looked like he was getting in, I'd have confronted him. I think.

What I would not have done was shoot him. Your neighbor did the right thing in not bringing his gun into the mix. Reread the deadly force statues for Texas. Breaking and entering doesn't rise to the level of something you can use deadly force to prevent. Unless it is your own house, of course.

Good luck. I live in Spring, and we have a lot of the same garbage going on from time to time. I feel for you.

Springmom

[HankB]

Since you live in Texas, you might consider the applicability of these sections of the Texas penal code:

§ 9.41. PROTECTION OF ONE'S OWN PROPERTY. (a) A person in
lawful possession of land or tangible, movable property is
justified in using force against another when and to the degree the
actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to
prevent or terminate the other's trespass on the land or unlawful
interference with the property.
(b) A person unlawfully dispossessed of land or tangible,
movable property by another is justified in using force against the
other when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force
is immediately necessary to reenter the land or recover the
property if the actor uses the force immediately or in fresh pursuit
after the dispossession and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the other had no
claim of right when he dispossessed the actor; or
(2) the other accomplished the dispossession by using
force, threat, or fraud against the actor.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


§ 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is
justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the
other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of
arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or
recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to
protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,
1994.


§ 9.43. PROTECTION OF THIRD PERSON'S PROPERTY. A person
is justified in using force or deadly force against another to
protect land or tangible, movable property of a third person if,
under the circumstances as he reasonably believes them to be, the
actor would be justified under Section 9.41 or 9.42 in using force
or deadly force to protect his own land or property and:
(1) the actor reasonably believes the unlawful
interference constitutes attempted or consummated theft of or
criminal mischief to the tangible, movable property; or
(2) the actor reasonably believes that:
(A) the third person has requested his protection
of the land or property;
(B) he has a legal duty to protect the third
person's land or property; or
(C) the third person whose land or property he
uses force or deadly force to protect is the actor's spouse, parent,
or child, resides with the actor, or is under the actor's care.

Acts 1973, 63rd Leg., p. 883, ch. 399, § 1, eff. Jan. 1, 1974.
Amended by Acts 1993, 73rd Leg., ch. 900, § 1.01, eff. Sept. 1,

Note that IANAL, but my non-lawyer's reading of the law indicates that, unlike many other states, Texas is less concerned with the lawbreaker's welfare than with that of his intended victim.

[springmom]

This is true. Much depends on the district attorney of the county you're in. I don't know how it would play out in Harris County (where I am)...if I shot somebody breaking into MY house, I'd get a pat on the back from the police and a no-bill from the grand jury. If I shot somebody breaking into my neighbor's house...I don't know what Rosenthal would do.

Not sure I'd want to be the test case, though.

Springmom

[glockman19]

I had an issue last year where someone was egging my house. I knew who it was just had to catch him. Went to Fry Electronics and bought a wireless color remote camera with infra red. hooked it up to a VCR withe an 8 Hr. tape. Loand behold I caught the guy the first night it was set up confrounted his employer and told him I already made a police report, I did, and would press charges. Told him I have him and his friend on video tape described their clothing and time of incident.

Needless to say it hasn't happened again.

The system was made by Swann and was very inexpensive less than $150.

Good Luck

[Capt. Charlie]

I had an issue last year where someone was egging my house. I knew who it was just had to catch him. Went to Fry Electronics and bought a wireless color remote camera with infra red. hooked it up to a VCR withe an 8 Hr. tape.

It does work. I had similar issues with a similar solution. I mounted my camera on a cheap Radio Shack antenna rotor. I wanted the kids in question to know I was watching them, so I waited until they walked by and panned the camera, keeping it centered on them, no matter where they walked. They kept pointing to it and whispering to each other . No further problems.

[rampage841512]

Paintball gun.

[el_diabl0]

I agree with the advice about getting a dog. My 60 lb. mutt is the best watchdog I've ever seen and will lay down her life for us. She doesn't look like much until you come knocking on the door:

[120mm]

I'm a big fan of the medium-sized dog for self-defense. Big dogs, especially ones who are even mildly aggressive are a public nuisance. A smart, medium-sized dog who is loyal, will deter bad guys just as badly, without the legal downside, and frankly, are better "neighbor dogs." (When I've lived next to a guy with rottweilers or pitt-bulls, I alternatively fantasized about shooting the owner/dogs, as they worked pretty hard to make me and my family's life a living hell.)

I'm a big fan of Australian Shepherds for big yards, and just about any other medium-sized, smart dog for smaller hourses.

[TwoXForr]

Cpt. C. I really like your innovative use of Technology. Sounds good. Lots of montion senstive lights are my answer. Cameras and lights.

[Eghad]

If you can get proof of them doing damages to your property i.e. fingerprints on the vehicle, video tape, witness statements there is a small claims court in Texas. It costs you $25.00 to file last time I checked. Since they are minors the parent would probably get held liable for damges. They dont show up in court you win by default and get a judgment against her. If you can hurt people in the pocketbook that gets their attention.

As for the cigarette butts you might want to do police call in latex gloves and save a substantial amount of them and deposit them in the neighbors yard.

[Derius_T]

Creature wrote:

Your logic is flawed logic...and you obviously know it because you apologize for it right off the bat. It is also apparent that you haven't had to face the same situation that our friend here is experiencing because you are so free and easy to dispense with the "HIGH ROAD" approach and suggest taking the "LOW ROAD" instead. It is precisely because our friend can NOT be there all of the time that this is such a problem. It's easy to suggest doing something illegal when its not you risking prison or bankruptcy.

So, yes, your approach is precisely what you called it: silly and arrogant. And to suggest that our collective panties are in a wad over retaliation is further proof of that. Two wrongs never make a right, my friend. This is a man's property that were are talking about...where a man has his fortune and family wrapped up.

First off, your assumption is as far off as one could get. I have been, and have had family members in very similiar situations in the past. And I did not as you put it dispense with the 'high road' approach. On the contrary, I gave several 'high road' options, and only once half in jest did I even mention a "low road" option, by suggesting a little trash dumped on her lawn.

So If I were you, I would go back and read, before you start making snap assumptions, because it tells me alot about you. And your right, it IS a mans life, property and family we are talking about, which is why I advocated, that if everything else fails, to do what he had to do, reguardless of the outcome, to protect them.

If that is taking the low road, then so be it. Smarmy and sarcastic combacks and posts where you think you are chiding someone for being "wrong", in your opinion, does nothing for anything other than your ego, and does absolutely nothing to help 9mmsnoopy at all. Feel good about that? :barf:

[JunyTuck]

Detrious,
Can we keep this on topic without resorting to personal attacks?

[Derius_T]

Junytuck, where and when did I resort to a 'personal attack' on anyone?

If you are going to make accusations, at least please give me the example.....

[Creature]

Derius_T:
Your thinly veiled remarks "something would have to be done" and "to do what he had to do" is at best advice that will almost certainly escalate the situation. I, for one, did not take your suggestion/s as a joke!

Let 9mmsnoopy exhaust all proper and legal avenues first before even suggesting "the low road". To suggest otherwise is, as you say, "smarmy"!

[VUPDblue]

Junytuck, deriust and creature. Thanks in advance for getting this thread locked-down due to bickering...

[Creature]

Any thread in which illegal activity is proffered by it's contributors SHOULD be locked down.

This forum is read by the anti's as much as the rest of us and they can point to those individuals who condone that kind of activity as proof positive that pro-gun folks are immoral and off their rockers.

I am not one of those people.

[geologist]

How about leaving an open bag of chips that have been seasoned with something "special" like a powdered laxative?

[Steamboatsig]

How about rallying the neighborhood. I am sure you are not the only property owner on the block that is sick and tired of punks trashing the neighborhood and lowering the value of their homes.

See if you can get a neighborhood meeting together. See if you can get your bad neighbor to attend. Try and instill some pride back in the neighborhood. Maybe get a representative from the police force to attend the meetings.

Just a thought.

[Derius_T]

Maybe this should have been the 'holier-than-thou' thread. Sometimes measures that must be taken in order to preserve life, libery, and property may not necessarily be completely above board. No different than the people stating that current laws be d@mned they would shoot at a bad guy. No different at all.

I really wonder if all of you who take this moral highground at all costs attitude have never broken the law. Do you speed? Do you always use your turn signal, do you wear your seat belt? Do you follow any and every law on the boooks at all times? The answer is NO, its just not humanly possible. So put away your wal-mart halo's and stop being so hypocritical of others ideas and suggestions.

Most of the ideas in this thread have been above board, and I for one think 9mmsnoopy is smart enough to distinguish the difference. After all, this IS a forum for Adults......isn't it?

To 9mmSnoopy and all the others who are offering good advice, I sincerely appologize for the /threadjack. I am simply sick and tired of some people's sanctimonious attitude. If you got something to say, bring it to PM. I promise you I will tell you what I REALLY think of you there.

[JoeBlackSpade]

How about leaving an open bag of chips that have been seasoned with something "special" like a powdered laxative?

ROFL!

[VUPDblue]

Does your community have a government department that enforces ordinances? If they do, read-up on your local ordinances and see if there are rules governing such things as grass height, overgrown shrubs or broken down cars or the like. If your bad neighbor is guilty of any violations, report them to the city/town/county. The little bastages I referred to in my earlier post were guilty of several of these infractions. Several neighbors and I all seperately reported the people to the city. The city then towed two cars with expired plates, and mowed their lawn and sent them the bill. Keep the pressure on them and they may just leave.

[Creature]

Steamboatsig said:

How about rallying the neighborhood. I am sure you are not the only property owner on the block that is sick and tired of punks trashing the neighborhood and lowering the value of their homes.

See if you can get a neighborhood meeting together. See if you can get your bad neighbor to attend. Try and instill some pride back in the neighborhood. Maybe get a representative from the police force to attend the meetings.

Just a thought.

Excellent thought. This is exactly the kind of suggestion that not only may prove to resolve the problem, but might even turn around the decline of a neighborhood.

I made it a point to introduce myself to my neighbors on my street when my wife and I moved into our home five years ago. Since then we have all grown so close that now we have a very close-knit "enclave" in an otherwise sleepy bedroom town. When I lived in San Diego, we lived in the same town house for almost eight years...yet hardly knew our next door neighbor, let alone the guy three doors down. That was slightly disturbing.

Now, if one of my neighbors leaves town, we don't hesitate to let each other know so that we can keep an eye on each other's homes. We now have a tradition of spending Thanksgiving and Superbowl Sunday together...and share tomatoes & cucumbers from the garden and fireworks for the 4th in the summer. One neighbor, who I particularly trust, even has the key to my house. He makes sure that my mail gets into the house and that the fish get fed.

One of my neighbors, whom everyone had decided was a complete dirt bag, turned up on my doorstep not too long ago...hat in hand. I helped him out (prudently tucked my snubby under my shirt, mind you). Turns out he is a hard working, no-luck sort of Joe...and I have no doubt that he would crawl over glass to help me out. My point is this: try to coax those crappy neighbor to WANT to be neighborly. A kind word or a kind gesture can go a long way. Seriously. People aren't always as bad they seem.

As for my neck of the woods, we all know that we all have guns and that we are just a phone call or a hand wave away.

Community isnt just a collection of houses...

[BluesBear]

Good advice creature. Your neighborhood sounds like mine.
If more people took your approach this country would be in much better shape.