Hodgdon Misprint on 45ACP Load Data??

**Shane Tuttle** · December 6, 2008, 05:53 PM

I'm in the middle of reloading for my pistols and it was time to move over to another powder I like.

HS6 for .45ACP cartridge. I had a massive amount loaded for my guns and it's been a while since I cranked out HS6 for it.

My labels on my ammo boxes state:

HS6 @ 7.4gr. OAL @ 1.230"
Hornady 230gr. XTP JHP

The purpose for the loads is strictly long session range duty. This load has worked great in both my Springer 5in. 1911 and XD45ACP Service model (4in). No problems feeding or cycling. I thought I'd play with the load a bit for giggles and grins.

So, I dug up the info I printed out last year from Hodgdon's site. They only have FMJ @ 1.200" rated at 8.0gr min.-8.2gr max. Isn't this a typo? They even have a larger spread for lead bullets than the stated FMJ. The only small spread I saw was for their 200gr. LSWC.

Lyman's 48th ed. doesn't have a 230gr FMJ recipe.

Speer #14 has their 230gr JHP recipe at 7.2-8.0gr @1.200. It's spread was close in line with the 10% reduced-from-max. This is the information I trusted ultimately for loading my previous batch.

I was going to set up for 7.5gr and start loading in mass quantities, but was wondering if Hodgdon specifically stated the small spread for their min/max for a reason. I have followed the general rule of loading down 10% from max loads using more than one source of data. However, I've been told this is only a general rule of thumb because excessively low charges could be just as dangerous. I wanted to get further clarification from others that have more experience or have better first hand knowledge of these issues before starting up.

So, after my thesis, to sum up:

1. Is Hodgdon's load data I presented a typo or should I be using at least 8.0gr. of HS6?

2. Will using a reduced load at, say, 7.5gr, be a dangerous route?

3. Are there combinations of bullet weight/type, primer, and powder that's dangerous to reduce? Why?

Thanks for the help.

amamnn · December 6, 2008, 06:00 PM

I doubt 7.5 would be dangerous. 99.999% of "detonations" from reduced loads are actually double charges, which is one reason I use HS-6 in my .45acp loads. I just went in the other room and looked-- I'm using 8.2 grains for gas checked 185 gr. lead and 8.7 grains for jacketed 185 gr. bullets.

bullspotter · December 6, 2008, 06:09 PM

My hornaday book shows 230 gr fmj. oal at 1.200 HS-6 powder 6.6gr min at 600fps to 9.7gr max at 950 fps.

**Shane Tuttle** · December 6, 2008, 06:33 PM

Quote:

My hornaday book shows 230 gr fmj. oal at 1.200 HS-6 powder 6.6gr min at 600fps to 9.7gr max at 950 fps.

That's the opposite end of the spectrum....a huge spread instead. Maybe 7.5 is actually a good medium?

Quote:

I doubt 7.5 would be dangerous. 99.999% of "detonations" from reduced loads are actually double charges, which is one reason I use HS-6 in my .45acp loads. I just went in the other room and looked-- I'm using 8.2 grains for gas checked 185 gr. lead and 8.7 grains for jacketed 185 gr. bullets.

Yeah, I know double charges are common on powders that don't fill the case well and a person doesn't keep an eye out. That's one reason why I don't like TiteGroup. Very clean burning, but so little is needed for loads. I swear that there was another reason...

bullspotter · December 6, 2008, 07:09 PM

I would think the 7.5 would be fine. Might want to load a few at 7, and a few higher, work your way up some. 7.5 gr is shown in my book at 700 fps. Im running 7.3 gr of unique at 900 fps in my 45.

**Shane Tuttle** · December 6, 2008, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Might want to load a few at 7, and a few higher, work your way up some.

I was really wanting to load a mass quantity and be done with it instead of experimenting more since 7.4 seemed good. But, I might end up digressing and take your advice...

Anybody else have issues with Hodgdon's data?

keys85 · March 2, 2009, 01:37 PM

I had an issue. I cross checked the data for HS-6 with W540 (same powder). The max load for HS-6 8.2grn was listed at 830 ft/sec. I wanted to get to 850 ft/sec. I started at 7.1 grains and worked up to 8.4, using 1.265". I believe the loads listed are undercharged. I didn't have felt recoil equal to factory loads until I over charged at 8.4 grains. 8 to 8.2 grains is fine for plinking. Anything less than 7.4 grains showed unburned powder. My 7.4 grain load was very accurate and recoiled like a .22. Great competition load. I loaded some hollow points up with 8.5 charge but have not tested. No over charged load showed any signs of pressure or were abusive. I wish I could have chronographed my data.

I figure if 8.2 grains got 830 ft/sec, 8.5 would be close to 850. However, the W540 data contradicts the HS-6 data. I don't think using .065" longer OAL should have this much effect on velocity.

I checked the +p category. Something like 9.5 grains is max load for +P at 950 ft/sec. A modern gun and good brass can handle that, so my over charge 8.5 grains should be safe. I have no idea why they listed the maximum charges so low.

Can anybody take a good into the LEE Manual and cross reference the HS-6 data with W540 data for 230 grain FMJ and explain what's going on? The data isn't even remotely close. Secondly, can you please list any chronographed data you have with this powder if you have it. Much appreciated.

**Mal H** · March 2, 2009, 01:55 PM

Tuttle8, I don't think that's a misprint because I checked my hard copy Hodgdon manuals as far back as I have them, and they all have the 8.0 to 8.2 range for HS-6.

However, I think they're wrong about it. I don't know of any good reason not to go lower than 8.0, within reason of course. I checked the Hornady manual and it lists the HS-6 range as 7.0 to 8.2 with a 230 jacketed bullet.

oneounceload · March 2, 2009, 02:00 PM

Have you tried contacting Hodgdon?

Manufacturing changes from lot to lot or year to year can result in loading data being changed. I have older Speer and Sierra manuals, that when comparing to today's versions, show different loadings in some of my calibers.

keys85 · March 2, 2009, 02:13 PM

The load data is listed for COAL of 1.200" My gun will feed anything from 1.270" to the safe minimum. Decreasing OAL will increase pressure and velocity. If I'm seating to 1.265", I will be decreasing pressure and velocity from the listed load data.

Has anyone experimented with OAL so see how much it effects velocity versus powder charge? If 8.2 is max at 1.200", if I load to 1.265" COL how can I figure my powder charge to match the velocity given at 8.2 charge?

mkl · March 2, 2009, 02:28 PM

I have read about "detonations" and "explosions" because of reduced charges over the last 30+ years.

There are three salient points:

1) It has happened with very large capacity rifle cartridges only.
2) It has happened with only very slow burning rifle powders (IMR 4831 and slower).
3) It has never been duplicated under laboratory controlled tests trying to replicate.

I do not think you will have a problem with your charge of HS6.

If anyone has information contrary to the above, I'd appreciate a reference.

**Shane Tuttle** · March 2, 2009, 10:41 PM

I forgot about posting a followup. I'm embarrassed to say that keys85 picked up my slack.

I ended up with using 7.4 gr as I originally stated and then bumped to 7.6gr. I had good results with both including satisfactory cycling and easily manageable recoil.

I appreciate all the feedback.

keys85 · March 2, 2009, 11:38 PM

W540 (sam as HS-6) lists a minimum of 6.9 grains to a max of 7.6 grains at a COL of 1.090".

March 2, 2009, 01:37 PM	#7
keys85 Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 199	I had an issue. I cross checked the data for HS-6 with W540 (same powder). The max load for HS-6 8.2grn was listed at 830 ft/sec. I wanted to get to 850 ft/sec. I started at 7.1 grains and worked up to 8.4, using 1.265". I believe the loads listed are undercharged. I didn't have felt recoil equal to factory loads until I over charged at 8.4 grains. 8 to 8.2 grains is fine for plinking. Anything less than 7.4 grains showed unburned powder. My 7.4 grain load was very accurate and recoiled like a .22. Great competition load. I loaded some hollow points up with 8.5 charge but have not tested. No over charged load showed any signs of pressure or were abusive. I wish I could have chronographed my data. I figure if 8.2 grains got 830 ft/sec, 8.5 would be close to 850. However, the W540 data contradicts the HS-6 data. I don't think using .065" longer OAL should have this much effect on velocity. I checked the +p category. Something like 9.5 grains is max load for +P at 950 ft/sec. A modern gun and good brass can handle that, so my over charge 8.5 grains should be safe. I have no idea why they listed the maximum charges so low. Can anybody take a good into the LEE Manual and cross reference the HS-6 data with W540 data for 230 grain FMJ and explain what's going on? The data isn't even remotely close. Secondly, can you please list any chronographed data you have with this powder if you have it. Much appreciated. Last edited by keys85; March 2, 2009 at 01:46 PM.

March 2, 2009, 10:41 PM	#12
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,448	I forgot about posting a followup. I'm embarrassed to say that keys85 picked up my slack. I ended up with using 7.4 gr as I originally stated and then bumped to 7.6gr. I had good results with both including satisfactory cycling and easily manageable recoil. I appreciate all the feedback. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting

December 6, 2008, 05:53 PM	#1
Shane Tuttle Staff Join Date: November 28, 2005 Location: Montana Posts: 9,448	Hodgdon Misprint on 45ACP Load Data?? I'm in the middle of reloading for my pistols and it was time to move over to another powder I like. HS6 for .45ACP cartridge. I had a massive amount loaded for my guns and it's been a while since I cranked out HS6 for it. My labels on my ammo boxes state: HS6 @ 7.4gr. OAL @ 1.230" Hornady 230gr. XTP JHP The purpose for the loads is strictly long session range duty. This load has worked great in both my Springer 5in. 1911 and XD45ACP Service model (4in). No problems feeding or cycling. I thought I'd play with the load a bit for giggles and grins. So, I dug up the info I printed out last year from Hodgdon's site. They only have FMJ @ 1.200" rated at 8.0gr min.-8.2gr max. Isn't this a typo? They even have a larger spread for lead bullets than the stated FMJ. The only small spread I saw was for their 200gr. LSWC. Lyman's 48th ed. doesn't have a 230gr FMJ recipe. Speer #14 has their 230gr JHP recipe at 7.2-8.0gr @1.200. It's spread was close in line with the 10% reduced-from-max. This is the information I trusted ultimately for loading my previous batch. I was going to set up for 7.5gr and start loading in mass quantities, but was wondering if Hodgdon specifically stated the small spread for their min/max for a reason. I have followed the general rule of loading down 10% from max loads using more than one source of data. However, I've been told this is only a general rule of thumb because excessively low charges could be just as dangerous. I wanted to get further clarification from others that have more experience or have better first hand knowledge of these issues before starting up. So, after my thesis, to sum up: 1. Is Hodgdon's load data I presented a typo or should I be using at least 8.0gr. of HS6? 2. Will using a reduced load at, say, 7.5gr, be a dangerous route? 3. Are there combinations of bullet weight/type, primer, and powder that's dangerous to reduce? Why? Thanks for the help. __________________ If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language. Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting Last edited by Shane Tuttle; December 6, 2008 at 05:53 PM. Reason: grammar...

December 6, 2008, 06:00 PM	#2
amamnn Senior Member Join Date: May 13, 2006 Location: WA, the left armpit of the USA Posts: 1,323	I doubt 7.5 would be dangerous. 99.999% of "detonations" from reduced loads are actually double charges, which is one reason I use HS-6 in my .45acp loads. I just went in the other room and looked-- I'm using 8.2 grains for gas checked 185 gr. lead and 8.7 grains for jacketed 185 gr. bullets.

December 6, 2008, 06:09 PM	#3
bullspotter Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2008 Location: Montana Posts: 308	My hornaday book shows 230 gr fmj. oal at 1.200 HS-6 powder 6.6gr min at 600fps to 9.7gr max at 950 fps.

December 6, 2008, 07:09 PM	#5
bullspotter Senior Member Join Date: November 2, 2008 Location: Montana Posts: 308	I would think the 7.5 would be fine. Might want to load a few at 7, and a few higher, work your way up some. 7.5 gr is shown in my book at 700 fps. Im running 7.3 gr of unique at 900 fps in my 45.

March 2, 2009, 01:55 PM	#8
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,971	Tuttle8, I don't think that's a misprint because I checked my hard copy Hodgdon manuals as far back as I have them, and they all have the 8.0 to 8.2 range for HS-6. However, I think they're wrong about it. I don't know of any good reason not to go lower than 8.0, within reason of course. I checked the Hornady manual and it lists the HS-6 range as 7.0 to 8.2 with a 230 jacketed bullet.

March 2, 2009, 02:00 PM	#9
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Have you tried contacting Hodgdon? Manufacturing changes from lot to lot or year to year can result in loading data being changed. I have older Speer and Sierra manuals, that when comparing to today's versions, show different loadings in some of my calibers.

March 2, 2009, 02:13 PM	#10
keys85 Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 199	The load data is listed for COAL of 1.200" My gun will feed anything from 1.270" to the safe minimum. Decreasing OAL will increase pressure and velocity. If I'm seating to 1.265", I will be decreasing pressure and velocity from the listed load data. Has anyone experimented with OAL so see how much it effects velocity versus powder charge? If 8.2 is max at 1.200", if I load to 1.265" COL how can I figure my powder charge to match the velocity given at 8.2 charge?

March 2, 2009, 02:28 PM	#11
mkl Senior Member Join Date: April 25, 2008 Location: DFW area, Texas Posts: 494	I have read about "detonations" and "explosions" because of reduced charges over the last 30+ years. There are three salient points: 1) It has happened with very large capacity rifle cartridges only. 2) It has happened with only very slow burning rifle powders (IMR 4831 and slower). 3) It has never been duplicated under laboratory controlled tests trying to replicate. I do not think you will have a problem with your charge of HS6. If anyone has information contrary to the above, I'd appreciate a reference.

March 2, 2009, 11:38 PM	#13
keys85 Junior member Join Date: September 20, 2008 Posts: 199	W540 (sam as HS-6) lists a minimum of 6.9 grains to a max of 7.6 grains at a COL of 1.090".